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#10035066 - 04/07/21 05:14 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: robbbby]
Risky Business Offline
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 Originally Posted By: robbbby
My sister wants to sell her condo in downtown toronto She's been outbid so many times it is insane. Her budget last year was 750 but now she is realizing she needs 850-900 to get anything close to what she wants.



She wants to sell her condo, but she is getting outbid? wat?

Condos are ripping, but inventory seems to be picking up again. Doubt it will cool it off, but hopefully we get more supply. I had about 6 clients in the tailend of 2020 looking to lock in units, only 1 did, everyone else got priced out now.

Windsor area went crazy it also got a lot of publicity because all the 'investors' from Toronto went out that way to do the BRRR method with JV's.



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#10035375 - 04/07/21 01:48 PM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: Risky Business]
SuPeR-MaRiO Offline
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Registered: 06/28/01
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Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Anyone up for refinancing? This is what I was offered:

5 year fixed = 2.19%
4 year fixed = 2.09%
3 year fixed = 1.94%

5 year variable = Prime - 0.95 = 1.5%

Thoughts?

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#10035390 - 04/07/21 02:16 PM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: SuPeR-MaRiO]
Risky Business Offline
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Bank or Broker?
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#10035403 - 04/07/21 02:38 PM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: Risky Business]
robbbby Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
 Originally Posted By: robbbby
My sister wants to sell her condo in downtown toronto She's been outbid so many times it is insane. Her budget last year was 750 but now she is realizing she needs 850-900 to get anything close to what she wants.



She wants to sell her condo, but she is getting outbid? wat?

Condos are ripping, but inventory seems to be picking up again. Doubt it will cool it off, but hopefully we get more supply. I had about 6 clients in the tailend of 2020 looking to lock in units, only 1 did, everyone else got priced out now.

Windsor area went crazy it also got a lot of publicity because all the 'investors' from Toronto went out that way to do the BRRR method with JV's.




Lol fuck, think I missed a comma. She wants to sell her condo and move back to Windsor, but she keeps getting outbid on all the homes she finds down here, so still hasn’t sold the condo.

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#10035423 - 04/07/21 03:19 PM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: Risky Business]
SuPeR-MaRiO Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
Bank or Broker?

Bank, RBC.

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#10035469 - 04/07/21 04:56 PM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: SuPeR-MaRiO]
Risky Business Offline
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From my experience RBC has the worst residential mortgage products (unless something changed drastically recently). Go with a broker for better rates/options, banks make money on the spread between the bank rate and the product they saddle you with. Brokers make money from getting you the lowest rate. Incentives are aligned.
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#10035631 - 04/07/21 11:06 PM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: Risky Business]
A2B-Lexus Offline
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I renewed my Mom's condo for 1.28 after discounts. 5 years variable via TD bank.


My own is at 2.75% locked for 4 more years. It made sense at the time as we wanted cost certainty.

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#10035664 - 04/08/21 05:23 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: A2B-Lexus]
Risky Business Offline
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TD and BMO right now seem to be the most competitive in the space, BMO especially.

CIBC has always been the mortgage whore, anyone and anything goes, best rates \:D

Always shop around, don't go direct to a bank unless you have a ton of business with them and can squeeze on rates.

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#10035780 - 04/08/21 09:59 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: Risky Business]
SuPeR-MaRiO Offline
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Anyone have a broker referral?
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#10035783 - 04/08/21 10:02 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: SuPeR-MaRiO]
Risky Business Offline
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Check pm
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#10036016 - 04/08/21 02:29 PM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: Risky Business]
titty sprinkles Offline
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fuck man i need to put up a no soliciting sign up on my door or something. realtors be knocking on my door at 10am waking me up asking me to sell. i know my place can fetch some decent coin, but where the ass am i going to buy for cheap? brb moving to maynooth ont.
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#10036027 - 04/08/21 02:39 PM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: titty sprinkles]
Simon_the_Pieman Offline
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 Originally Posted By: titty sprinkles
fuck man i need to put up a no soliciting sign up on my door or something. realtors be knocking on my door at 10am waking me up asking me to sell. i know my place can fetch some decent coin, but where the ass am i going to buy for cheap? brb moving to maynooth ont.


take card and report em
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#10036286 - 04/09/21 12:20 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: Simon_the_Pieman]
Hatorade Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Simon_the_Pieman
 Originally Posted By: titty sprinkles
fuck man i need to put up a no soliciting sign up on my door or something. realtors be knocking on my door at 10am waking me up asking me to sell. i know my place can fetch some decent coin, but where the ass am i going to buy for cheap? brb moving to maynooth ont.


take card and report em


Report them to who? Realtors are not part of the door knocking ban.
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#10036307 - 04/09/21 04:56 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: Hatorade]
Risky Business Offline
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I mean considering RECO does nothing about legitimate complaints about realtors, good luck with that door knock \:D
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#10036353 - 04/09/21 07:22 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: titty sprinkles]
c2k Moderator Offline
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 Originally Posted By: titty sprinkles
fuck man i need to put up a no soliciting sign up on my door or something. realtors be knocking on my door at 10am waking me up asking me to sell. i know my place can fetch some decent coin, but where the ass am i going to buy for cheap? brb moving to maynooth ont.


"You woke me up? You want to sell my house? I will not sell unless you pay me 2 million bucks, plus 50 grand for waking my tired ass up. Oh and total commission, 3% bc FUCK YOU."

That'd be me if somebody knocks on my door.
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#10036357 - 04/09/21 07:32 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: c2k]
Risky Business Offline
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Why stop at 3%?

There are Brampton realtors who work for free, can get better.

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#10036653 - 04/09/21 01:23 PM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: Hatorade]
Simon_the_Pieman Offline
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Registered: 08/13/01
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 Originally Posted By: Hatorade
 Originally Posted By: Simon_the_Pieman
 Originally Posted By: titty sprinkles
fuck man i need to put up a no soliciting sign up on my door or something. realtors be knocking on my door at 10am waking me up asking me to sell. i know my place can fetch some decent coin, but where the ass am i going to buy for cheap? brb moving to maynooth ont.


take card and report em


Report them to who? Realtors are not part of the door knocking ban.


didnt know that. a bat should work then.
_________________________
"I'd love it if we did it... but I guess I'm a big skeptic on Canadians because so many are retarded as fuck." - 355-Si, 2020

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#10037586 - 04/11/21 08:04 PM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: Risky Business]
robbbby Offline
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Registered: 01/23/02
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 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
Why stop at 3%?

There are Brampton realtors who work for free, can get better.



What is standard when selling? This has always been something i've been curious about but could never find real answers on.

I've always heard 6% was kind of the standard, 3% for selling agent, 3% for buying agent, but that you could easily do 5% (2.5/2.5).

But say I'm selling a house, you are my selling agent, I negotiate 2.5% with you, who negotiates the rate for the buying agent? Can you share any info on how that works, or is this some hush hush trade secret?

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#10037801 - 04/12/21 05:15 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: robbbby]
JEFFOS Offline
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5% is typical at 2.5% each. If you discount you’re typically discounting on your side and leaving the buying agent intact at 2.5%

Go lower on the buying side and some agents won’t even bring buyers to your house. That’s typical for resale.

Precon is typical lower than the 5%
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#10037812 - 04/12/21 07:40 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: robbbby]
Risky Business Offline
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Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 43687
 Originally Posted By: robbbby
 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
Why stop at 3%?

There are Brampton realtors who work for free, can get better.



What is standard when selling? This has always been something i've been curious about but could never find real answers on.

I've always heard 6% was kind of the standard, 3% for selling agent, 3% for buying agent, but that you could easily do 5% (2.5/2.5).

But say I'm selling a house, you are my selling agent, I negotiate 2.5% with you, who negotiates the rate for the buying agent? Can you share any info on how that works, or is this some hush hush trade secret?


It's area/agent/brokerage dependent.

What Jeff said, standard is 2.5% selling agent + 2.5% buying agent.

The more expensive the property is the more negotiable the listing commission from the standard 2.5%. Listing commission % on a $3M home will be lower than a $500k condo.

If you are using the same agent to sell as well as buy, you have more negotiation power on listing commission as well.

Effectively it can go from 2.5% to 1% for listing agent, somewhat of a sliding scale and how much business is on the table for the agent.

Also depends on the market and property you are selling, how much marketing dollars have to be put into the property etc.

Reason it's kept "hush" is because if someone got 1.5% listing fee doesn't mean you are going to get it, you don't know what was behind the deal.

On the buying side I've seen from 2% to 3%. Your realtor gives you the standard for your area and you can squeeze there or you can go with what's standard. Standard is 2.5% in the GTA, if you make your listing agent offer 2%-2.25% to the buying agent you are going to alienate some buyers as their agents won't show the property even though that's unprofessional. Some agents get super butt hurt over rates/their time/they feel insulted, etc.

Keep in mind this is a very broad strokes discussion, for a lot of agents negotiating listing % is a non starter and they won’t do it. Everyone does business different.

For me personally for friends and family I will always hook them up as the referrals in the future are worth way more than any commission now. I also want to be fair to the client as I feel the commission should be reflective of the work needed to get a property sold for top dollar. If not much is needed from my end, even if they don’t ask for a discount I will offer it up – something I’ve done before even when people were adamant for me to keep full commission. I feel it’s good business rather than to try and milk every dollar. I’ve also had the total opposite, people who insist I work for barebones when the property is a POS and will not sell easy. Those are easy for me to deal with, just drop them and let someone else deal with the headache.

In the end, this is one of those ‘you get what you pay for’ scenarios. Discounting commission is a nice bonus, but considering how much money you are dealing with and the importance of the transaction not falling apart I say shop for competence first, discount second.

What you ‘save’ in commissions could be lost and then some with a bad listing execution, mispricing the property, botching an offer date, and ending up with a stale/stigmatized listing. Is the risk worth it? This is personal, 10 years ago I would’ve said ‘yes’, now totally stupid imo. Live and learn.

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#10038301 - 04/12/21 05:56 PM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: Risky Business]
robbbby Offline
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Registered: 01/23/02
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Thanks, that is really good info, never considered a lot of those things.
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#10038439 - 04/13/21 07:37 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: JEFFOS]
furball Offline
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9446
Loc: Toronto, ON
"5% is typical" ...

At least in 2019, that was not the case. Whether you use the same realtor to BUY and SELL, or just to SELL (or just to BUY) ... some are willing to 'eat' some of that ...

(Whether it's because they're 'farmers' and 'farm' that specific neighbourhood and have economies of s(c)ale, or you're upgrading to a bigger unit, etc...)

Other scenarios I've heard of/seen/been through:
- farming discount
- a 'rebate' on their commission towards the purchase price of a home, to speed up the sale/lower the commission, etc...
- go on a diet on one portion of a buy/sell
- Other 'benefits' beyond the commission, such as realtor eating the cost of staging, their connections for movers/contractors/renovators, etc.

Our resident CSI:On agents can give you better insight into that.

I've heard anecdotally of selling agents 'pressuring' to ensure the BUYING agent gets the 2.5% (i.e. it has to be listed at 2.5% if the market area bears that), otherwise "agents won't even want to show the listing, etc" ...

Totally agree it's not always about the %, and a referral to an awesome agent is like a luck of the draw ...
(I've only gone thru 1 buy/sell transaction personally. The sell allowed me to witness my own agent in action, plus ~18 agents pitching; insane differences in experience/approach in pitching. The buy transaction went alright... but not great.)

In my case, the selling agent was a referral not from a transaction, but 'Hey, Jane goes to my church, and I think she does cheap listings.' We ended up with more than we bargained for (in a very good way) because of her team/partner.

 Originally Posted By: JEFFOS
5% is typical at 2.5% each. If you discount you’re typically discounting on your side and leaving the buying agent intact at 2.5%

Go lower on the buying side and some agents won’t even bring buyers to your house. That’s typical for resale.

Precon is typical lower than the 5%

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#10038444 - 04/13/21 07:55 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: furball]
Risky Business Offline
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 Originally Posted By: furball
The sell allowed me to witness my own agent in action, plus ~18 agents pitching; insane differences in experience/approach in pitching.


This is where the 'magic' happens. You take a part time agent that does the one off deal or someone that doesn't know what they are doing...they get thrown into the den it's so easy as the seller agent to leave money on the table by not playing the offer night well or to be the buy side agent and missing out on a property over a few grand, when price is only one component and there are number of other ways to have a strong offer by being prepared.

Like I said, you get what you pay for. Some well known agents with a track record won't even entertain dropping the commission as they have a steady and growing book of business - they don't need to attract based on price, some will immediately approach you and pitch you as their value prop being that they are the cheapest commission in town. If that's your 'value add' as an agent that tells me everything I need to know. To be fair to all agents, its hard to differentiate yourself as everyone says the same thing as the other person, this is why to me word of mouth is most important.

The industry has a ton of hacks, lots of people give it a bad rep, but there are also a ton of really good agents that know what's up. Buyer beware.

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#10038452 - 04/13/21 08:15 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: furball]
Risky Business Offline
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Registered: 05/17/10
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 Originally Posted By: furball
"5% is typical" ...

At least in 2019, that was not the case. Whether you use the same realtor to BUY and SELL, or just to SELL (or just to BUY) ... some are willing to 'eat' some of that ...


Isn't that what I covered? 5% is standard (advertised) what happens behind closed doors is deal dependent...

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#10038459 - 04/13/21 08:43 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: Risky Business]
furball Offline
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Registered: 09/24/03
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Loc: Toronto, ON
Yes, yes you did. I read Jeffos' post, responded to that, then I read your post

 Originally Posted By: Risky Business


Isn't that what I covered? 5% is standard (advertised) what happens behind closed doors is deal dependent...



Like watching Dragon's Den/Shark Tank; there's good presentations, terrible presentations, and everything in between. You see snakes come out, amateur hour, old skilled foxes, the prepared, the ill-prepared, the guys who show their hand, the ones who just stare at you to try to 'read' you, the ones who bring in their clients with personal letters about how lovely your home is for them, etc.

 Quote:
This is where the 'magic' happens. You take a part time agent that does the one off deal or someone that doesn't know what they are doing...they get thrown into the den it's so easy as the seller agent to leave money on the table by not playing the offer night well or to be the buy side agent and missing out on a property over a few grand, when price is only one component and there are number of other ways to have a strong offer by being prepared.

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#10040081 - 04/15/21 12:54 PM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: furball]
furball Offline
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Registered: 09/24/03
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Loc: Toronto, ON
https://www.blogto.com/real-estate-toronto/2021/04/toronto-realtors-stop-using-term-master-bedroom/


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#10042804 - 04/20/21 05:34 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: furball]
Risky Business Offline
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Registered: 05/17/10
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Closed a deal last night on a detached in the beaches...what a difference a lockdown makes. My best buy side deals have always been at the start of a new lockdown (December 2020 was great).

2 weekends ago I was tracking showings on properties of interest, 20-30 showings easily, 3-6 registered offers. Then it began: listings went up, lockdown announced, perfect storm over the weekend. Showings dropped off, sellers spooked, some buyers retreated...no competing offers. Drama averted, property acquired well below current market craziness.

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#10043035 - 04/20/21 11:12 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: Risky Business]
Hatorade Offline
pheggit
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Registered: 11/05/99
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Maybe a one off or price point? Anything under $1M regardless of location is still hot currently. I have not seen any slow down due to lockdown. When covid numbers started to rise in the fall I saw a decrease, but come December it was a fucking shit show. 40 offers on every fucking property we were looking at in Durham due to the lack of inventory. Prices were going up an easy 5%+ with every home that sold.

I also secured a place with my buyers last week. Property was listed Friday 1030am. We looked at it at 5pm and put in bully offer by 9pm. As I submitted our offer another agent did as well. So 2 bully offers by coincidence on the same day it was listed. This was for a townhouse just under $1M
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I thought Spark was a robot from the old movie and I kind of remember seeing him telling some engineer showing the equation for a clear metal that the guy would event years later - porschetr

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#10043087 - 04/20/21 11:51 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: Hatorade]
Risky Business Offline
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I should've clarified, I was talking mostly detached 1.5m-2m range and some semis in the 1.3 range in 416.

Around 1M in 905 anywhere was the wild west, although I am seeing lots of offer dates flop in Markham and just relisting at some new ridiculous ask...some of it still selling.

Good kill with the bully on day -1. I think that's some solid service for your buyers since most see everything on day 0 and by then hustlers like you have had their way with the listing while everyone was sleeping \:D

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#10043154 - 04/20/21 12:30 PM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: Risky Business]
furball Offline
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9446
Loc: Toronto, ON
Stupid question: is that / should sellers be in that opinion that it's good to accept a bully offer?

In a hot-assed market as it is now, would the open-market not be the ideal scenario? (My one time scenario, this one time, at bandcamp, in 2019 ... We told the bullys to fuck off and get in line like the other peasants, and wait for open-market day.)

Schrödinger's cat scenario? (i.e. you can't really say either way, because if you took the bully, no way to see how it'd do at the open market. If you entertained the bully offer, they wouldn't go with the same at market?)

 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
Good kill with the bully on day -1. I think that's some solid service for your buyers since most see everything on day 0 and by then hustlers like you have had their way with the listing while everyone was sleeping \:D

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#10043172 - 04/20/21 12:39 PM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: furball]
Risky Business Offline
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Registered: 05/17/10
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I will preface my answer with it depends on the property, the bully offer, and agents on both sides of the deal.

As a listing agent I would tell a bully offer to f off or would play them to get them to come up higher than what I think a bidding war would do. This is where experience/knowledge comes into play the most...who knows the market better? The listing agent or the bully offer agent?

As a buying agent I am totally down to do what Hator did, pre emptive offers can work amazing if the listing agent is a part timer, doesn't know the local market, etc. Combine that with them entertaining the bully without informing all other interested parties you could theoretically 'steal' the listing. Offer dates get botched all the time in favour of the buyer or seller, how good is your realtor? This is why it's hard to find a good realtor, you simply don't know unless it's through a referral or you know the person. Otherwise it all sounds the same.




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#10043270 - 04/20/21 01:34 PM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: Risky Business]
furball Offline
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9446
Loc: Toronto, ON
Well put ... </NotBadObama>

 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
pre emptive offers can work amazing if the listing agent is a part timer, doesn't know the local market, etc. Combine that with them entertaining the bully without
informing all other interested parties you could theoretically 'steal' the listing.

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#10043567 - 04/20/21 06:02 PM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: furball]
Risky Business Offline
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Registered: 05/17/10
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Not going to lie, when I see MLS listings with a salesperson using a discount brokerage or someone using hotmail, yahoo, or the like for emails to conduct business i double down on them like a mofo ;\)
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#10043750 - 04/20/21 09:13 PM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: Risky Business]
robbbby Offline
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Registered: 01/23/02
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My sister put an offer in on a home tonight.
House was listed this morning, closing tonight based on 7 preemptive offers.

Edit - and she didn't get it. they came back and said it was between her and one other buyer and wanted to know how much more they could offer. Sister told them to get fucked.

Is this common practice? Like going behind the back of the highest bidder to try and get second highest to outbid them? Seems shady as fuck.

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#10043894 - 04/21/21 05:00 AM Re: dat real estate v.2021 [Re: robbbby]
Risky Business Offline
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Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 43687
Yes it's common practice, yes it's allowed, no it's not 'shady'. This is a case where maybe a couple of grand would've gotten her the house if she really wanted it.

Is the process frustrating as hell for buyers? Yes.

This is the issue with the blind bidding process, it's a crapshoot, and it's a massive waste of time for many participants. However since it's allowed you'd be doing a disservice to your seller client by not playing the the game to get them top dollar if everyone else is doing it. Race to bottom in a way.

Sounds like it was a grossly underpriced property to get that many counters on a pre-emptive in a day. Crazy

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