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#4998456 - 08/30/10 01:32 AM Mustang hits 200k
ReplicaR Offline
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This was on the way to the race track as well. This was the first time we did a night event, and it was a blast


On the side notes, even though the temps at the track were fairly low, the car still ran hot. The long block has never been opened up. Oil temps were through the roof, as it went past 280 indication, and water temp was around 220 or more the whole session. Somehow the motor still held up, but I've got a feeling that it's finally time to think about the way of retiring it. It just really bugs me that car will be fine driving it around town all day long, hot or cold, running AC and everything, but as soon as it goes on the track, all hell breaks loose. My friend told me to just replace the motor with another stock fresh motor, and have fun with it. I might just do that.
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#4998475 - 08/30/10 01:51 AM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: ReplicaR]
Hytec Offline
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Stock 03/04 Cobra motor w/ T56 should suffice.... just sayin' \:D
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#4998485 - 08/30/10 02:14 AM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: ReplicaR]
progressi Offline
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Do you have an oil cooler?

Ive heard that some stock vehicles (I think I heard this regarding the new 370s and 335s) run high oil temps on the track,let alone your modded car with crazy miles on it.

It would be nice if you could address oil cooling and somehow have it be OK for a while,then..if you get a new motor you could still benefit from the insurance. \:\)

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#4998759 - 08/30/10 09:29 AM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: ]
Impulsive Offline
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Why not just refresh the motor and throw on a trick flow kit? or grab a short/long block and throw it in.

I'm a long way from remembering shit on Mustangs, but I would think a new stock engine wouldn't be much cheaper than a mild longblock plus you can drop some wieght with aluminum heads.
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#4998763 - 08/30/10 09:30 AM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: Impulsive]
LNXGUY Offline
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Nice man! 200k is nothing to sneeze at.
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#4999179 - 08/30/10 12:31 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: LNXGUY]
Design Offline
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Indeed. Especially one that sees as many track days as yours.
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#4999187 - 08/30/10 12:36 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: LNXGUY]
PsychoEBPSiR Offline
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Do u have a oil cooler? Fresh block shouldn't be much, and maybe put some goodies in it before install.


Yeah im wondering the same w/ my car for track days. Bought a big oil cooler for it, hope it helps out. Should be suffice , big front mount, bigger rad, dual 12 in 2500cfm fans. And air blocks to direct air to radiator/intercooler and oilcooler.
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#4999235 - 08/30/10 12:50 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: PsychoEBPSiR]
Euphoricuck Offline
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Nice!
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#4999364 - 08/30/10 01:27 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: Euphoricuck]
ReplicaR Offline
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I used to have oil cooler on the car, but it was a cheapie Ford Racing piece, so it took a long mount of line to install it, and and it always leaked, and I mounted it in front of the radiator, so it kinda blocked the flow, so after a while I took it off.

I'm going to piece together another kit, this time using braided lines, and thicker as well. I'll position it flat at the bottom and either install a scoop of some sort, or an electric fan.

As far as the new long block goes, it will not be a "new" long block per say. I will probably just get a machined block and take my time to put it together right. I want to keep the same combo of parts I already have to keep the cost down. Maybe I'll throw in some more parts at it, if I find some cheap during the build. In either case, I don't think I'll be on track until december, so I've got some time to get things going.
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#5006172 - 09/01/10 08:31 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: ReplicaR]
ReplicaR Offline
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Ok, new plan. Decided that since the bottom end is still good, I'm going to keep it, and just do head gaskets and refinish the stock heads while I'm in the process. I also will most likely get a new oil cooler, and a road race oil pan while I'm in the process of doing all this. I'll post more details once things start moving.
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#5006227 - 09/01/10 08:49 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: ReplicaR]
max Offline
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Nice! \:\)

Mine's hovering around 126k mi now, but it doesn't get the same amount of love these days. I'd like to get the torque arm and panhard installed this winter though.

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#5006709 - 09/02/10 12:14 AM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: ReplicaR]
killerbeeVR6 Offline
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ew, don't take the motor apart and not add shit. rule #1.
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#5006725 - 09/02/10 12:28 AM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: killerbeeVR6]
ReplicaR Offline
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Don't dump a whole bunch of money that you don't have. Rule #2

Besides, I think cleaned up heads will probably give me back some power lost in usage.
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#5007230 - 09/02/10 09:14 AM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: ReplicaR]
Impulsive Offline
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Can't find any used aluminum heads?

I'm assuming you'll check oil pressure, leakdown and maybe compression as well to make sure you're base engine is solid.
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#5382096 - 02/18/11 03:31 AM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: ReplicaR]
patconor Offline
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 Originally Posted By: ReplicaR
Ok, new plan. Decided that since the bottom end is still good, I'm going to keep it, and just do cylinder head gasket set and refinish the stock heads while I'm in the process. I also will most likely get a new oil cooler, and a road race oil pan while I'm in the process of doing all this. I'll post more details once things start moving.


Bump. That's a neat plan. Any updates since then. I agree with the rules that killerbeeVR6 and ReplicaR gave.


Edited by patconor (02/20/11 10:12 PM)

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#5382876 - 02/18/11 01:37 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: patconor]
hustler Offline
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Good stuff, yeah I would re-configure your oil cooler, maybe bigger diameter lines to keep decent oil pressure. If you are on a budget, just go pull a junkyard 5.0 motor, but it sounds like you enjoy road racing the car and that is just begging for a used set of good heads. Aluminum heads would help bring down the heat as well. Lots of stuff out there in this depressed marked, I've been unloading my stuff for pretty cheap. Still getting a lot of low ballers on my shortblock so I may be holding onto it for awhile. But you can find some people who are desperate to get out of stuff. At least you can plan for a build. If you use what you have then that puts you down while you assemble. Your longblock won't be worth much by the time you pull it out. Is it using oil at all?
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#5383149 - 02/18/11 02:55 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: hustler]
ReplicaR Offline
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It does not seem to be using any oil at all. Between 6k mile oil change with Motul, it only went down 3rd of the quart, and I'm pretty sure that's mostly from the leaking rear main seal. That's with 3 weekends of events on it. I actually had it out last weekend, ever since I did the high flow pump, and changed factory timing chain, and it ran sweet the first session (temp fluctuated between 185 and 195), but in later session it started to run hot again. Felt to me like I lost pressure in the cooling system. I ordered Moroso Racing caps, 16lbs for street and 21lbs for the track. We'll see if that will help me. Also, this is an older thread, I posted more recent updates in my headgasket thread, and I don't know why this one got bumped.

P.S.: Car crossed 210k a couple of days ago.
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'94 Mustang GT

Acceleration.... \:\( -------+-- \:\)
Handling......... \:\( -------+-- \:\)
Speed............ \:\( ------+--- \:\)

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#5383793 - 02/18/11 08:03 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: ]
killerbeeVR6 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: PatB18C
My 335 is running 250 on the streets (oil temps) with an oil cooler.

Is this a problem?




it's certainly not good for the oil, especially with the insane change intervals BMtroubleyou suggests. The 328 sits at 240-250 pretty consistently.


Edited by killerbeeVR6 (02/18/11 08:03 PM)

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#5384028 - 02/18/11 10:10 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: killerbeeVR6]
Euphoricuck Offline
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bmw's intervals are a joke (ie: too long) half is just about right.


no idea what my oil temps are though. my car doesnt come with that shit. edit: looks like this pos may run hotter temps too

i have an aftermarket water gauge though..... pretty big deal on these things. i scan it way to much
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#5385380 - 02/19/11 11:07 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: Euphoricuck]
LNXGUY Offline
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Exteneded OCI's are fine if you are running on the highway 95% of the time. But not if you are in stop and go traffic. I actually just changed my oil today.. 30k OCI, lol whoops
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#5385447 - 02/20/11 12:17 AM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: LNXGUY]
Euphoricuck Offline
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lol good point. i just did a change last week. 12k..a bit longer than id like to typically go(about 10kish)
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#5388714 - 02/22/11 07:20 AM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: LNXGUY]
FCobra94 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: LNXGUY
Exteneded OCI's are fine if you are running on the highway 95% of the time.

According to who/what? That may be true for 95% of the cars out there when running a decent oil, but not the N54/N55 equipped BMWs. Even Mobil 1 0w-40 has been destroyed in as little as 1k miles of average driving with these motors. They throw out far too much heat/fuel dilution to run safe at the factory recommended 15k mile OCI.

Maybe if you were running a biosyn like RLI, etc. I'd feel safe coming close to maybe 10k, but not until multiple UOAs were done to make sure everything was still in check.
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#5389021 - 02/22/11 10:08 AM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: FCobra94]
LNXGUY Offline
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 Originally Posted By: FCobra94
 Originally Posted By: LNXGUY
Exteneded OCI's are fine if you are running on the highway 95% of the time.

According to who/what? That may be true for 95% of the cars out there when running a decent oil, but not the N54/N55 equipped BMWs. Even Mobil 1 0w-40 has been destroyed in as little as 1k miles of average driving with these motors. They throw out far too much heat/fuel dilution to run safe at the factory recommended 15k mile OCI.

Maybe if you were running a biosyn like RLI, etc. I'd feel safe coming close to maybe 10k, but not until multiple UOAs were done to make sure everything was still in check.


There is something wrong if you are destroying a Group IV PAO Full syn in a thousand miles or less. Are those engines that shitty?
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#5389110 - 02/22/11 10:52 AM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: LNXGUY]
FCobra94 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: LNXGUY
There is something wrong if you are destroying a Group IV PAO Full syn in a thousand miles or less. Are those engines that shitty?

I wouldn't say that. It's just that 15k mile OCIs are a stretch to begin with; adding forced induction, direct injection, etc. doesn't make it any easier. The only way to make sure it's safe to run OCIs past 5k in this particular motor is to UOA IMO.

Here's what Terry Dyson has to say about it:

 Quote:
I have customers running BMW5w30, M1 0w40 all with the same effect, the wear control is good if we change the oil at 1000 mile intervals but the deposit formation from REAL volatility issues are slowly damaging the engines. I just worked a 07 335 Biturbo yesterday USING ASTM lab tests on the used oil and M1 0w40 went from VOA flash of 430+F to 240 F in 1150 miles, oil sheared to 12.1 cSt and fuel was at 1.99% by IR. Amsoil has not been tested in this engine yet. Because Amsoil is a traditional based PAO I predict similar results to the M1 0w40 which is still one of few M1 products that can perform reasonably well.


 Quote:
RLI BIOSYN is the only oil I am seeing work well in DI RS4 or 2.0 Audi or the BMW bi turbo 3.0 I6 in the 335I. They both are killing every oil I used to recommend. I am not kidding and have no interest in promoting one oil over the other.

reb03, the M1 0w40 should not be run longer than 1000 miles to be safe.. Audi and BMW know they are having problems but are marketing tied to certain LARGE oil company that sponsors BITOG thus they cannot speak out about it.

GC 0w30 green might work well here but the fuels chemistries have changed so much that it may be out of date to protect as well as I would want to see.


Sure, there are a few UOAs floating around showing that GC and even the BMW 5w30 have been able to take the abuse of track days, etc. but I wouldn't trust those couple of good UOAs over a TON of mediocre examples when planning out a OCI schedule.
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#5389215 - 02/22/11 11:23 AM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: FCobra94]
NHRATA01 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: FCobra94
 Originally Posted By: LNXGUY
Exteneded OCI's are fine if you are running on the highway 95% of the time.

According to who/what? That may be true for 95% of the cars out there when running a decent oil, but not the N54/N55 equipped BMWs. Even Mobil 1 0w-40 has been destroyed in as little as 1k miles of average driving with these motors. They throw out far too much heat/fuel dilution to run safe at the factory recommended 15k mile OCI.


Interesting. You know, I'm hearing the same issue with the GM 3.0/3.6 DI motors and breaking down the oil quickly. I'm wondering if fuel dilution and accelerated oil degradation is going to become a common issue with gasoline direct-injection engines?
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#5389357 - 02/22/11 12:07 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: NHRATA01]
FCobra94 Offline
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I would imagine so...given the advantages of DI though, I'm sure more automakers will be going with this technology as well. All that means is that oil formulas will have to change in order to keep up with the subsequent demands of a proper lubricant.

I don't have any personal experience with biosynthetic oil itself, but the results have been nothing short of outstanding with regards to DI+FI engines. I'm sure many other HDEO users will find this stuff helpful as well:

http://www.renewablelube.com/motoroilsinformation.htm
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#5389439 - 02/22/11 12:33 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: FCobra94]
danl Offline
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Can somebody answer me this? Why is DI harder on the oil?

I did a 5900 oil change on my evo. Blackstone labs said that wear levels are like it was ran 3600 miles. I beat my shit hard.
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#5389546 - 02/22/11 01:18 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: danl]
Euphoricuck Offline
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how many UOA's on those engines on bobistheoilguy?

Ive read enough on there and ran my own lab tests (sent it out duh) that I know I wouldnt trust bmw OCI even on the "old school" non FI/DI engines.
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#5390165 - 02/22/11 03:51 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: danl]
Impulsive Offline
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 Originally Posted By: danl
Can somebody answer me this? Why is DI harder on the oil?



Fuel dilution seems to be the issue.
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#5390493 - 02/22/11 06:38 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: Impulsive]
danl Offline
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Yes, but how is fuel getting into the oil? Also why is it not burning off like regular EFI cars? Are the mazda DI cars having similar issues? DI is supposed to increase efficiency, which tells me that it atomizes the fuel better, which should reduce dilution.

Either the cause or the solution to the problem is hard to address. Else the OEM's would redesign it, unless the mazdas are not having the issue where the BMW's are. That leads me to believe it would be an engine design problem, not a DI problem.
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#5390870 - 02/22/11 10:01 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: danl]
Impulsive Offline
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I believe it's relatively common in direct injected turbo engines, not just BMW's.

http://papers.sae.org/2002-01-1647/

I think some of it is fuel injected later in the cycle for emissions/purposes, something you can't do in a port injected engine.
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#5391442 - 02/23/11 08:19 AM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: danl]
FCobra94 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: danl
Yes, but how is fuel getting into the oil? Also why is it not burning off like regular EFI cars? Are the mazda DI cars having similar issues? DI is supposed to increase efficiency, which tells me that it atomizes the fuel better, which should reduce dilution.

From what I've read here, it seems that Mazda tuned their motor to run super rich:
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123717022-Fueling-AFR-Discussion-VERY-LONG

With all that extra fuel, various injector timing algorithms, and as much as 2k psi of pressure, it's not hard to see why so much gas ends up making it's way past the rings and into the oil; especially with cars that don't see a ton of highway miles. It's not that surprising at all IMO. I'm sure the EVO X motor suffers from the same issues given that it's stock AFR can dip into the 9:1 range, IIRC.

I do think it's ironic that some manufacturers run their conventionaly injected motors overly lean under load for emissions purposes, but when it comes to DI, engineers do the exact opposite and completely neglect the benefits of ultra lean burn altogether and would rather have them run pig rich...what gives?
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#5391957 - 02/23/11 11:19 AM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: FCobra94]
NHRATA01 Offline
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I'm thinking part of the issue is you don't have as much time, and probably not as much turbulent airflow, for the fuel to completely atomize vs. a port injected motor, and thus more fuel ends up on the cylinder walls and then past the rings into the oil.
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#5392180 - 02/23/11 12:25 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: NHRATA01]
FCobra94 Offline
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Registered: 10/22/01
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That may be the case...this book speaks a little bit on combustion swirl, etc. and it would be neat to dive into it a little deeper, but I'm not sure I want to spend $220 to do so lol

http://books.google.com/books?id=j8pgKXy...epage&q&f=false
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#5392202 - 02/23/11 12:34 PM Re: Mustang hits 200k [Re: FCobra94]
Euphoricuck Offline
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you dont have to... ;\)

http://ebookee.org/Automotive-Spark-Ignited-Direct-Injection-Gasoline-Engines-Re-Post-_638516.html
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