E85 is pretty frekin............

You are not logged in. [Log In] ClubSi » Forums » General Zone » Si & Type R vs All » E85 is pretty frekin............

Page 1 of 1

Topic Options

#3013180 - 09/13/08 01:13 PM E85 is pretty frekin............
danl danl Post Master Supreme Registered: 07/14/00 Posts: 12783 Loc: Maryland USA	AWSOME! I took my POSDSM down to Annapolis to try out some E85. Being a scaredy cat I only put in 12 gallons to 4 gallons of gasoline that was left in the car. I figured I could limp around if the car hated the E85. So I adjusted the global on my injectors real quick to compensate for the E85 mix and checked the wideband as well as the fuel trims. My car has a slight overheating issue. I think this junkyard shortblock that I picked up last fall is clogged with minerals or something because its been like this since the "new" motor. The E85 takes about 10 degrees out of my coolant temps and I can actually drive around without the cooling fans on or the pheer of getting caught in a traffic jam. After the E85 had a chance to mix in my tank I was on 97 north and a jackass in one of those charger RT's or something (all I saw was the red R/T badge) found it necessary to run up on my ass at 90 mph to slow down to my 55mph cruise in the right lane. Who does that, pass in the fast lane jackoff, I'm just trying to be legal for once. So after a few seconds I decide to give the new fuel a shot. Coolant temps were in check, reached over and clicked the logger button, snicked third, and gave he hell at about 60mph. The origional wheel/tires off my Evo complain a little bit but settle down at 75mph and I run her up to 110mph. No knock, no misfires, just pulling clean to redline. Coolant temps are in check. I hope we can come up with a better way to make this stuff as it is a really good high performance street fuel with no lead. _________________________ “ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway? the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.” -Rex B16, June 11 2024
Top

Videos

#3013248 - 09/13/08 01:36 PM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: danl]
Benelliwang Benelliwang Post Master Sr Registered: 04/10/02 Posts: 5747 Loc: Vegas	Very interested in your outcome on this. How does the wideband and stock o2 sensor read? Also how much your mileage changes? Right now E85 cost more than 91oct here, but once the cost is lower and have more available stations I am really tempted to swap my cars to it. _________________________ 2007 Ferrari F430 Spider 2021 Tesla Model S Plaid 2025 Tesla Model Y
Top

#3013313 - 09/13/08 02:03 PM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: Benelliwang]
danl danl Post Master Supreme Registered: 07/14/00 Posts: 12783 Loc: Maryland USA	It was like mid $3 a gallon which is like 50c a gallon cheaper than 93 octane. The stock narrowband sensors on most cars don't give a flying fuck what kind of fuel you use. They cycle RAPIDLY around stoichiometric and stoich only. Outside these boundries they fall off in resolution rapidly. Stoich isn't a function of fuel. Its a function of oxygen to fuel content after the combustion event. As such the car will still cycle normally. The wideband essentially, for all that "you" need to be concerned reads the same. 11:1 is still the same as it was for instance. The difference is that it will take more injector pulsewidth to reach the same AFR so you must have a way to change it post filling up with ethanol else you'll run dangerously lean. You also must have enough spare injector duty cycle left and enough fuel pump to support the extra fuel flow. Also ethanol doesen't mind running rich like gas does. For instance I run my DSM 12.5:1 on race gas and the same on pump gas. I see big gains running this lean (and never lost a motor due to running these AFR's, my motors look great upon teardown actually). However E85 is "lean" at mid 12's, you should be shooting for mid 11's and you'll still make good power. However you can still make good power on ethanol in the bottom 11's, which is where I'm shooting for during my learning curve. Ethanol is more of a coolant than gasoline is. As such I thin the main benefit for this fuel is in boosted applications. Maybe it will help curb detonation in high compression n/a motors but boy oh boy does it solve a LOT of issues on my dinosaur tech DSM engine because it cools the air charge entering the motor. Since I did a 75% mix I added 30% to my injectors. IE: straight E85 requires ~40% more fuel. Since I only added 75% E85 I run 75% of 40% which is 30% more fuel. If you have any questions about the math PM me. FYI I'm doing calculations on the SAFE side. I've leaned it out a tick from my calculations............. _________________________ “ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway? the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.” -Rex B16, June 11 2024
Top

#3013329 - 09/13/08 02:09 PM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: Benelliwang]
CommonGutterTrash CommonGutterTrash This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile. Post Master Sr Registered: 09/16/02 Posts: 6437 Loc: Boston MA	There's a bit of a trade-off. I'm sure you've seen it all before... because it's 104 octane, cruising around can be leaner. However, there's less energy/burn, so you need almost 2x as much to make power on it. so, even at $3/gallon here... the trade-off isn't there, yet. aside from not ruining 02 sensors, and saving a few $$ on cam2 Edited by g96nt (09/13/08 02:09 PM) _________________________ Craig R. 2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon 1995 850 T-5R 1996 Galant AIM = gclipse96
Top

#3013397 - 09/13/08 02:32 PM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
danl danl Post Master Supreme Registered: 07/14/00 Posts: 12783 Loc: Maryland USA	I don't think you can give E85 an octane rating an expect to compare it to gas. The fuel is cooling my engine and allowing me to tune in a way that I've always wanted to but never could on pump gas. _________________________ “ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway? the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.” -Rex B16, June 11 2024
Top

#3013478 - 09/13/08 03:01 PM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: danl]
CommonGutterTrash CommonGutterTrash This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile. Post Master Sr Registered: 09/16/02 Posts: 6437 Loc: Boston MA	I'm pretty sure the ron or whatever of e85 IS 104. I could be wrong, but that's the number I always hear thrown around... The slow-burn of the ethanol makes it burn as if it were 104 octane. however, having a much lower specific gravity, you need a crap load more of it. _________________________ Craig R. 2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon 1995 850 T-5R 1996 Galant AIM = gclipse96
Top

#3013520 - 09/13/08 03:11 PM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
danl danl Post Master Supreme Registered: 07/14/00 Posts: 12783 Loc: Maryland USA	I know you need approximately 40% more fuel when running E85. But it also cools the intake temps. Therefore on a 90 degree day my engine is running like it is a 60 degree day tuning wise. So basically its like 104 octane in your car pulling on the top end on a 90 deg day vs a 60 deg day, which one would you take? LOL I don't know about you but I'm conservative all summer long then when the fall comes and I get nicer air temps I get a little CRAZY!!!!!!!!!! _________________________ “ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway? the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.” -Rex B16, June 11 2024
Top

#3014401 - 09/13/08 11:01 PM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: danl]
CommonGutterTrash CommonGutterTrash This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile. Post Master Sr Registered: 09/16/02 Posts: 6437 Loc: Boston MA	upi MIGJHTm nbeas dreunk as me!!!!!! i <3 beer!!!! ei85 = 104 I = WI?NNAR _________________________ Craig R. 2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon 1995 850 T-5R 1996 Galant AIM = gclipse96
Top

#3014930 - 09/14/08 07:53 AM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
danl danl Post Master Supreme Registered: 07/14/00 Posts: 12783 Loc: Maryland USA	LOL. Lets put it this way. If I had free reign of fuel for raceday, I'd pick E85 on a summer day over 104 octane. _________________________ “ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway? the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.” -Rex B16, June 11 2024
Top

#3015052 - 09/14/08 09:39 AM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: danl]
420 420 Post Master Sr Registered: 01/22/01 Posts: 7294 Loc: North Florida	Have you prepped your fuel system for regular E5 use? That stuff will eat through a stock system fairly aggressively. _________________________ "I mean, I get it -- Clinton represents more of the same, which is what everyone is sick of, but at the same time, Trump is not the change we're looking for." - Balbi
Top

#3015114 - 09/14/08 10:26 AM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: 420]
danl danl Post Master Supreme Registered: 07/14/00 Posts: 12783 Loc: Maryland USA	I think that E85 corroding fuel systems is mostly a myth. When you mix ethanol with small doses of gasoline the corrosion levels drop drastically. Furthermore most premium fuels are already E10 and have been for almost a decade and nobody has noticed/complained. My DSM, by default, is mostly E85 compliant due to the upgrades that I have done. However I've just ordered 1050cc injectors and a pump for my Evo so that I have the fuel supply to support E85 and I'm confident that I will have no problems on an otherwise stock fuel system. _________________________ “ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway? the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.” -Rex B16, June 11 2024
Top

#3015170 - 09/14/08 10:54 AM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: danl]
PurduinaSi PurduinaSi Post Master Sr Registered: 04/16/04 Posts: 7857 Loc: Westchester, NY	Originally Posted By: 420 Have you prepped your fuel system for regular E5 use? That stuff will eat through a stock system fairly aggressively. Not true at all, this is just a myth. I've had experience running e85 in 20-30+ cars and we've never had any problems with anything corroding. Originally Posted By: danl I think that E85 corroding fuel systems is mostly a myth. When you mix ethanol with small doses of gasoline the corrosion levels drop drastically. Furthermore most premium fuels are already E10 and have been for almost a decade and nobody has noticed/complained. My DSM, by default, is mostly E85 compliant due to the upgrades that I have done. However I've just ordered 1050cc injectors and a pump for my Evo so that I have the fuel supply to support E85 and I'm confident that I will have no problems on an otherwise stock fuel system. E85 is the shit, I'm surprised you didn't try it earlier. My roommate owns a company (CornBredTuning) where all he does is convert turbo cars to e85 and tunes them accordingly. They made 376 whp on a bone stock Honda LS motor (never even opened the valve cover) using e85. They found that not only does it cool better, but it also makes a good amount more torque. And yes, it does require more fuel, but that 40% is really only at WOT. They were noticing mileage drop from around 30 mpg to 24 mpg, which isn't exactly a 40% loss. And considering that e85 out in the midwest is so cheap (2.8x IIRC), it pretty much evens out for them to be the same cost as 93, but with the benefits of race gas. Definitely the way to go if you have it readily available around you. _________________________
Top

#3015305 - 09/14/08 12:17 PM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: PurduinaSi]
SamuraiSam SamuraiSam Post Master Sr Registered: 07/29/02 Posts: 8828 Loc: Bellingham, WA	E85 has a lower potential energy content than regular gasoline which is another reason why you need so much more of it. You have to (or 'get' to) run more timing in many areas of your timing map. _________________________ Working and living the dream in post-prohibition Washington State
Top

#3015369 - 09/14/08 12:57 PM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: SamuraiSam]
danl danl Post Master Supreme Registered: 07/14/00 Posts: 12783 Loc: Maryland USA	Purdina, I messed with it about 2 months ago when a friend brought over 5 gallons to play with in his car. His dad picked it up for him on his 40 mile commute home one day. It worked ok but leaded 110 was working better so we stopped using it. Now that I'm running a much higher concentration its working even better. I still won't be able to use it as a race fuel as I'm already at 75% duty cycle at only 22psi boost. I'm going to lean out if I crank it to 35psi like I do in the fall at the track so I'll still need the leaded fuel for that. However for the street, I should be able to run 25 psi with straight E85 which is plenty of power to give coworkers a good scare, which is about all I do on the street with this car anymore. On the evo however will have plenty of fuel with similar size injectors. _________________________ “ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway? the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.” -Rex B16, June 11 2024
Top

#3016377 - 09/14/08 08:43 PM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: danl]
CommonGutterTrash CommonGutterTrash This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile. Post Master Sr Registered: 09/16/02 Posts: 6437 Loc: Boston MA	holy shit. I was drunk. =0[ _________________________ Craig R. 2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon 1995 850 T-5R 1996 Galant AIM = gclipse96
Top

#3016774 - 09/14/08 11:36 PM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
Euphoricuck Euphoricuck Post Master Supreme Registered: 11/05/03 Posts: 92703 Loc: Canadistan	e85 = win for powah _________________________
Top

#3021389 - 09/16/08 11:11 AM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: Euphoricuck]
FCobra94 FCobra94 Post Master Supreme Registered: 10/22/01 Posts: 19689 Loc: MD	Aww, Boo'urns! I live in Annapolis and had i known you were down this way, I would have at least bought you a couple rounds for a ride in that rust bucket of yours! $\:D$ Where'd you end up getting it from? There's a brand new Shell station that sells it near the mall and a Citgo that sells it right down the street from there (I hear that place has had problems with their pump breaking down w/ E85 in it though)... Anyway, I keep trying to get my buddies (a few Supra's, turbo Audi's, etc.) to run that stuff and get a tune for it, but they don't want to listen. They have plenty of parts to account for the additional fuel required, but they still would rather just run around w/ race gas on the street $\:\/$ _________________________ '07 335i
Top

#3022145 - 09/16/08 02:02 PM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: FCobra94]
PurduinaSi PurduinaSi Post Master Sr Registered: 04/16/04 Posts: 7857 Loc: Westchester, NY	But its soooo much cooler when you get on it and instead of the smell of race gas, it smells like popcorn! $\:D$ _________________________
Top

#3022819 - 09/16/08 05:07 PM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: PurduinaSi]
danl danl Post Master Supreme Registered: 07/14/00 Posts: 12783 Loc: Maryland USA	FCobra, PM me I'll have it down here for the rest of this week. I'm only running 22psi so that I don't do unnecessary wear on the transmission but it still pulls ok. Basically instead of doing rolling burnouts in third gear it will accelerate. Purdina, the smell is nice. Right now its only E66 due to my calculations and how much gas I had in it, but it smells so much better than it did before. _________________________ “ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway? the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.” -Rex B16, June 11 2024
Top

#3024587 - 09/17/08 06:53 AM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: danl]
FWDcar FWDcar Major Member Registered: 10/05/03 Posts: 1357 Loc: Cottage Grove, MN	I would honestly say that ~60 percent of the DSM'ers in MN run it if they make over 300whp. We try to make every single turbocharged car around change to it.........it REALLY is that much better. _________________________ 2004 Pontiac GTO 6speed (SOLD, Stupid me!) 1998 Dodge Neon of DOOM! (Current Whip) Next up: White Lexus SC300 5sp. or GPW S2000
Top

#3029152 - 09/18/08 12:13 PM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: FWDcar]
turbo_guy turbo_guy Post Master Sr Registered: 06/09/03 Posts: 4434 Loc: canton, oh	i use it on my blow-thru carb'd car. just idling, my intake get ICE COLD. i'm talking straight out of the freezer.
Top

#3030887 - 09/18/08 08:10 PM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: ]
danl danl Post Master Supreme Registered: 07/14/00 Posts: 12783 Loc: Maryland USA	From what I've read it works well in high compression motors. I am by no means an all motor guy though, I don't know much if anything at all about non boosted motors. _________________________ “ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway? the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.” -Rex B16, June 11 2024
Top

#3031932 - 09/19/08 07:01 AM Re: E85 is pretty frekin............ [Re: danl]
FCobra94 FCobra94 Post Master Supreme Registered: 10/22/01 Posts: 19689 Loc: MD	Originally Posted By: danl From what I've read it works well in high compression motors. Yeah, a buddy of mine runs it in a high compression/built B18 motor and it's working very well for him... Aside from that, thanks again for the ride yesterday Dan! It was great meeting you and good times all around _________________________ '07 335i
Top

Page 1 of 1

Previous Topic View All Topics

Index Next Topic

Moderator: auxilary, The Mad Paki

Hop to:

Shout Box

CSi Sponsors

Civic Type-R 2-Piece Rotors — $814 Front Pair! Made in England!
View EBC Rotors

ClubSi.com Shirts

StopTech NZ
StopTech New Zealand

StopTech Australia
StopTech Australia

Brake Specials
Contact BuyBrakes

Brake Pad Coupon
Use Code: hondafetish