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#10156217 - 11/08/21 08:07 PM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: furball]
355-Si Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 4346
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
I have my 3rd dose tomorrow morning.
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#10157418 - 11/10/21 01:15 PM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: 355-Si]
furball Offline
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9381
Loc: Toronto, ON
Wife got her third dose - she skipped the 'hospital' lineup, opting for a local pharmacy, cuz she wanted the Moderna....

The official clinics you won't know if you're getting Pfizer or Moderna?

 Originally Posted By: 355-Si
I have my 3rd dose tomorrow morning.

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#10157862 - 11/10/21 07:01 PM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: furball]
355-Si Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 4346
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
My first two doses were Pfizer.
My third was as well.


You clicked Pfizer or Moderna in the registration and that was what you got.

Shoulder sore today, more than any of the other dosesÖ but no side effects.
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#10157865 - 11/10/21 07:09 PM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: 355-Si]
Risky Business Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 42483
How is covid on the ground floor treating you?

"feels" like we are over it (famous last words?)

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#10157902 - 11/10/21 08:25 PM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: Risky Business]
355-Si Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 4346
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
We do a Covid call maybe once every 2 weeks.
Itís always an unvaccinated patient (actually no, one person was fully vaxed and had it.)

Its honestly much better.

EMRG isnít packed with Covid, ICU has room too.

We havenít had a Covid case (I mean me and my partner) in maybe 3 weeks now.
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#10158007 - 11/11/21 08:05 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: 355-Si]
furball Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9381
Loc: Toronto, ON
Wife's first 2 were Pfizer IIRC, and according to her 'research' (on fb physician groups) the 'mixing' was preferred?

She said (at least at the time she booked) the clinics would not guarantee which one you got... maybe they do now.

 Originally Posted By: 355-Si
My first two doses were Pfizer.
My third was as well.

You clicked Pfizer or Moderna in the registration and that was what you got.

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#10158353 - 11/11/21 02:27 PM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: furball]
Denis Si Offline
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Registered: 04/11/01
Posts: 2790
Loc: T.O.
Just remember, 2 more weeks to flatten the curve!
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#10158412 - 11/11/21 03:38 PM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: furball]
porschetr Offline
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Registered: 05/15/01
Posts: 23275
Loc: WBridge
I am gonna stick with the same manufacturer.
6 months later, the country I want to visit will say no mixed booster,so I need to take a 4th or a PCR.
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#10158414 - 11/11/21 03:43 PM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: 4Three]
hyper-s2k Offline
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Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 14555
Loc: T dot O dot, Canada
 Originally Posted By: 4Three
 Originally Posted By: hyper-s2k

Having said that, if the anti-vaxxers choose not to take one because of "freedom" then they should be put on a lower priority list for getting a hospital bed compared to those with real illnesses that are beyond their control (those waiting for chemo, some form of life saving operation, etc.) - because they shouldn't even need to get as sick as they should (and waste hospital space) had they've gotten their shot.


This is a slippery slope. How about other life-style choices? Drinking? Smoking? Drugs? Profession? Diet? Exercise?


Yeah - similar response when having this topic for discussion with my relatives (who are in the medical profession).

I guess my thinking is more from the perspective that if you're not being responsible for your own well-being (when you're fully capable of doing so) then why should the system focus resources on keeping you alive when there are those that are caught in an unfortunate situation of catching covid but ends up stuck in the line waiting because some frat boy was partying it up and caught it in a super spreader event.

The use cases you mentioned are kind of like that with life insurance premiums already, no? (Smokers probably have to pay more than non-smoker; people with crappy physical test results pay more, etc.)

Of course, I haven't seen what the front line guys have seen so my opinion is probably not valid -- but given you guys work so hard to save lives, I'd hope the efforts would be more worth it towards those that deserve it?
_________________________
'08 //M3 - now @ 90,xxx km - wtf did i do?
'13 x1 - now @ 99,xxx km - a2b car
'10 x3 - now @ 123,xxx km - time 2 go?
'03 s2k - now @ 80,xxx km - a2a car
'08 535i - sold @ 149,421 km - cashed out just in time!
'08 impreza 2.5i - sold @ - 64,147 km - smh POS
'01 rav4 - killed @ 155,879 km - RIP old friend

"Driving in the snow is like sex. If you want to avoid accidents, abstinence is the best policy. If you're gonna take her for a spin, use protection." - Rick Mercer

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#10158418 - 11/11/21 03:48 PM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: furball]
hyper-s2k Offline
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Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 14555
Loc: T dot O dot, Canada
 Originally Posted By: furball
Toddler came back from preschool and fucked us all up ...

Toddler's dripping/clogged nose, coughing like mad, fever here 'n there.
Wife sore throat, coughing, and achy all over
Grandma's sore throat
Little brother's coughing a tad and low low fever
Me with sore throat and achy all over..

Toddler + Wife + Grandma all took at-home covid tests, negative. Wife did a covid test, also negative.

Meanwhile I'm the idiot wearing a mask at home, hoping not to get more sick, and trying not to get the baby sick...


ah the stuff kids bring home's deadly - when my daughter was in pre-school she damn near killed my wife, her mom and her siblings. i was the last man standing. kids are walking petrie dishes.

you're not an idiot for being the only one wearing a mask - i'd consider it as self preservation - can't watch the kid if you're down for the count too. it's just that in your house covid's not the thing that's gonna get you but the flu.
_________________________
'08 //M3 - now @ 90,xxx km - wtf did i do?
'13 x1 - now @ 99,xxx km - a2b car
'10 x3 - now @ 123,xxx km - time 2 go?
'03 s2k - now @ 80,xxx km - a2a car
'08 535i - sold @ 149,421 km - cashed out just in time!
'08 impreza 2.5i - sold @ - 64,147 km - smh POS
'01 rav4 - killed @ 155,879 km - RIP old friend

"Driving in the snow is like sex. If you want to avoid accidents, abstinence is the best policy. If you're gonna take her for a spin, use protection." - Rick Mercer

Top
#10158772 - 11/12/21 10:35 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: hyper-s2k]
4Three Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 12/21/00
Posts: 5335
Loc: Markham, ON, Canada
 Originally Posted By: hyper-s2k
 Originally Posted By: 4Three
 Originally Posted By: hyper-s2k

Having said that, if the anti-vaxxers choose not to take one because of "freedom" then they should be put on a lower priority list for getting a hospital bed compared to those with real illnesses that are beyond their control (those waiting for chemo, some form of life saving operation, etc.) - because they shouldn't even need to get as sick as they should (and waste hospital space) had they've gotten their shot.


This is a slippery slope. How about other life-style choices? Drinking? Smoking? Drugs? Profession? Diet? Exercise?


Yeah - similar response when having this topic for discussion with my relatives (who are in the medical profession).

I guess my thinking is more from the perspective that if you're not being responsible for your own well-being (when you're fully capable of doing so) then why should the system focus resources on keeping you alive when there are those that are caught in an unfortunate situation of catching covid but ends up stuck in the line waiting because some frat boy was partying it up and caught it in a super spreader event.

The use cases you mentioned are kind of like that with life insurance premiums already, no? (Smokers probably have to pay more than non-smoker; people with crappy physical test results pay more, etc.)

Of course, I haven't seen what the front line guys have seen so my opinion is probably not valid -- but given you guys work so hard to save lives, I'd hope the efforts would be more worth it towards those that deserve it?


I definitely understand your POV. And just to preface, I think the topic right now is very divisive, which offers opportunity for healthy debate. Gonna be a long post cause I've thought a lot about this and engaged in lots of discussion. CN - everyone should have right to choose.

I'm curious if anyone has 100% faith in the vaccine and its efficacy; as in, no doubts or questions, whatsoever. If that's the case, I'm happy for you. To be that certain of something is blissful. I personally have doubts with this (Covid-19) vaccine. I have a coworkers who's healthy teenage son was practically disabled temporarily due to the Brazil variant (still recovering after months). I also have another coworker who's dear friend (also healthy) passed away after taking the vaccine. I'm also generally distrusting of the media nowadays (agenda driven, and not even trying to hide it). To combat this, I try to keep myself informed from both sides of an argument, which usually leaves me spinning my wheels, with no truths, and a lot of frustration.

I think for the majority of the population, there is some level of hesitation or doubt regarding the vaccine. With that in mind, we each have to weigh the pros and cons of our personal choice and our situation. Those who have taken the shot are risking any associated side effects from the various vaccines, some documented, and some which may not show up until years from now. Those who have abstained from the vaccine are risking the symptoms of Covid-19, and are also risking being outcast from society as vaccination status becomes a social currency. This last part is quite concerning to me as it impedes basic human right to choose, a right that we should all be entitled to. On top of this, general distrust of government (and of the vaccine) falls along certain demographic lines, which means that groups that are already marginalize are more likely to be fearful of the vaccine, and are subsequently set further back for not taking it.

I also find it at least worthy of contemplation that doctors, nurses, medics, and other various front line workers, who one would assume would have the best ground level perspective on the affects of Covid-19, have chosen to stand-up against a vaccine mandate at the risk of losing their jobs. Surely amongst that group are some conspiracy theory nuts, but that can't possibly account for such large numbers (which I think comes in around 10% of these groups of professionals).

At the end of it, I believe everyone should be allowed to make the choice on whether or not to get the vaccine, or which vaccine to get, or whether or not to take the booster shot, or whether or not to vaccinate their kids. After all, the research that I'm seeing shows that the affects of the vaccine works on the person taking it, and that it shouldn't matter if the person next to you has taken it. There are no hard stats to show that the vaccinated are any less capable of carrying and transmitting the virus. And currently, at least in Ontario, there is no noticeable strain on the health care system (specifically ICU beds) relating to Covid-19. There is however, (at least anecdotal) evidence to show that some of these systems or services are being impacted by vaccine mandates (and the fall-out from workers refusing to comply and being sent home/suspended/fired from work). So I have to ask, would you rather have a un-vaccinated firefighter come rescue you from a burning building, or you rather take a pass and let the fire do its thing?
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#10158880 - 11/12/21 12:28 PM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: hyper-s2k]
furball Offline
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9381
Loc: Toronto, ON
Well, all things considered, as this is a car forum ... I'm happy for the support of at least 1 non-retarded parent re: wearing mask at home...

I'm being ostracized by my own family now with this shit, double-standards...
- Oh, you expect the SICK to wear one? How the hell you expect a TODDLER to wear one? (No, I'm not, I expect the ADULTS to)
- Oh, you expect the SICK to wear one? We're all SICK, so we can all be sick together. YOU are NOT SICK, so therefore YOU wear one
- Oh, I recovered from whatever virus, I don't need to wear one, I'm protected now
- Oh, now you're making us all feel bad for not wearing one

Meanwhile, here I am, wearing a mask (too late anyway, as I STILL have a sore throat for over a week) ...

Did covid test with the toddler, both negative, so there's that.

re: 'Preference of an unvaxx'd firefighter come save my ass vs not getting saved. That's no the option though, amirite? There's no checkbox, there's no vote. It's not up for public opinion -- there's a mandate, at either the corporation or service level, to have it across the board.

And put it this way ... Would you prefer to have an ENTIRE FIREFIGHTER STATION wiped out due to covid temporarily for an entire neighbourhood, thereby increasing response time, or have that 1 firefighter go on unpaid leave/terminated until they get vaxxed? That's another perspective.

Just heard a story from a parent at work....
- Group of 12 year old girls, 1 of them is unvaxxed. Seems the girl is not invited to sleepovers/etc cuz well, unvaxxed, as dictated by the parents. Poor girl is lying about her vax status just to be included, and a friend of hers knows she's lying.....

 Originally Posted By: hyper-s2k
ah the stuff kids bring home's deadly - when my daughter was in pre-school she damn near killed my wife, her mom and her siblings. i was the last man standing. kids are walking petrie dishes.

you're not an idiot for being the only one wearing a mask - i'd consider it as self preservation - can't watch the kid if you're down for the count too. it's just that in your house covid's not the thing that's gonna get you but the flu.

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#10158932 - 11/12/21 01:20 PM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: furball]
4Three Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 12/21/00
Posts: 5335
Loc: Markham, ON, Canada
I'm with you on the mask wearing., even at home, even with family, if the situation dictates. There obviously needs to be some common sense with that too, like you can't wear the same mask all day. It'll just get nasty with all kinda germs. I wear one a lot of the time. It's partially for me, but mainly for other people. If I sneeze or cough, or even if I don't, I don't want others to feel anxious if they have to be around me.

 Originally Posted By: furball
Well, all things considered, as this is a car forum ... I'm happy for the support of at least 1 non-retarded parent re: wearing mask at home...

I'm being ostracized by my own family now with this shit, double-standards...
- Oh, you expect the SICK to wear one? How the hell you expect a TODDLER to wear one? (No, I'm not, I expect the ADULTS to)
- Oh, you expect the SICK to wear one? We're all SICK, so we can all be sick together. YOU are NOT SICK, so therefore YOU wear one
- Oh, I recovered from whatever virus, I don't need to wear one, I'm protected now
- Oh, now you're making us all feel bad for not wearing one

Meanwhile, here I am, wearing a mask (too late anyway, as I STILL have a sore throat for over a week) ...

Did covid test with the toddler, both negative, so there's that.

re: 'Preference of an unvaxx'd firefighter come save my ass vs not getting saved. That's no the option though, amirite? There's no checkbox, there's no vote. It's not up for public opinion -- there's a mandate, at either the corporation or service level, to have it across the board.

And put it this way ... Would you prefer to have an ENTIRE FIREFIGHTER STATION wiped out due to covid temporarily for an entire neighbourhood, thereby increasing response time, or have that 1 firefighter go on unpaid leave/terminated until they get vaxxed? That's another perspective.

Just heard a story from a parent at work....
- Group of 12 year old girls, 1 of them is unvaxxed. Seems the girl is not invited to sleepovers/etc cuz well, unvaxxed, as dictated by the parents. Poor girl is lying about her vax status just to be included, and a friend of hers knows she's lying.....

 Originally Posted By: hyper-s2k
ah the stuff kids bring home's deadly - when my daughter was in pre-school she damn near killed my wife, her mom and her siblings. i was the last man standing. kids are walking petrie dishes.

you're not an idiot for being the only one wearing a mask - i'd consider it as self preservation - can't watch the kid if you're down for the count too. it's just that in your house covid's not the thing that's gonna get you but the flu.


I don't think the current stats support that an entire firehall would go down, but I do understand your perspective/concerns on that. In the beginning of the pandemic, there were a lot of situations where people were sent home to self-isolate, which caused shortages of services in many sectors. Now, outbreaks would have to occur to shut down a station for Covid-19 reasons. And in fact, a station/truck operates based on the minimum number of members working in the station. If they run below that number for whatever reason, that station gets shut down for the day and sends out all their members to neighbouring stations. (I know this because I have family with Toronto Fire). So shutting down stations is a possible concern, but I think the below article is more concerning, where able-bodied workers are vacant from their post because of a mandate they have taken issue with.

NYC Firefighters call out sick

The daily case counts are showing closer to equal number of vaccinated vs unvaccinated coming in as Covid-19 positive. I'm not suggesting that the actual rate of reported infections are equal among the two groups, considering we're looking at about 85% of the population being double vaccinated, but clearly the vaccinated are not immune to carry or transmit, or be affected to the point where they need to get tested and subsequently counted into the daily stats.

And to your comment about if there was a checkbox, I would assume you would select to have a vaccinated firefighter save you. What is your thought behind that? Is your belief that they are less likely to carry the virus? less likely the spread the virus? that they've served their civic duty by getting the vaccine? And why shouldn't we public debate a mandate? I think anytime we mandate things against people's will, there should probably be some discussion. Just because someone decides it should be policy, it shouldn't be questioned or at least discussed?

I totally feel horrible for the kids. I think your example there is a perfect illustration of how this whole polarized approach on the issue will segregate society. It'll end up in lots of mental health issues for sure.

To me, to force vaccination right now, and lets not pretend it's a choice, is an imposition of the ideology of one group upon another. It's discrimination, and it reeks.
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#10159075 - 11/12/21 05:05 PM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: 4Three]
hyper-s2k Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 14555
Loc: T dot O dot, Canada
 Originally Posted By: 4Three

I'm curious if anyone has 100% faith in the vaccine and its efficacy; as in, no doubts or questions, whatsoever. If that's the case, I'm happy for you. To be that certain of something is blissful. I personally have doubts with this (Covid-19) vaccine. I have a coworkers who's healthy teenage son was practically disabled temporarily due to the Brazil variant (still recovering after months). I also have another coworker who's dear friend (also healthy) passed away after taking the vaccine. I'm also generally distrusting of the media nowadays (agenda driven, and not even trying to hide it). To combat this, I try to keep myself informed from both sides of an argument, which usually leaves me spinning my wheels, with no truths, and a lot of frustration.

As much as I hate to say it - but in a way, my decision to vaccinate was taken with a sliver of Trump's reference to this (originally) as the "super flu" - but with a huge caveat - so here was my thought process:

1) covid, like influenza, is a virus (but this is a new type / strain of virus) - the only way to fight it off is with a vaccine that teaches your body how to fight it off before you get it.

2) can you fight off a flu without shots? sure, if you've taken enough flu shots over your life time and have enough "coverage" of all the major strains out there.

3) are you bulletproof from ever catching the flu? god no, we don't have enough different types of flu shots to cover all permutations of strains - that's why it will take us down once in a while; but our chances of survival has increased because of flu shots.

4) with covid, this is brand new - so in my mind, my body hasn't learned how to fight this off yet so getting the vaccine was to educate my body to "practice" fighting it.

i'm sorry to hear about your coworkers' story - esp. the one about dying after the vaccine; we go in (with good faith) that a medicine would help us, but rather it gave the opposite effect - i suppose anyone closely related to this event would be hesitant.

would i ever be the first to get in line for a vaccine? nope - i always wait for enough stats to help me make my decision; need to establish a high probability the vaccine / treatment / medicine of doing more good than harm. (hell I don't even update my phone when apple pushes an update - i wait a few weeks / months in case people freak out about it)


 Originally Posted By: 4Three

I think for the majority of the population, there is some level of hesitation or doubt regarding the vaccine. With that in mind, we each have to weigh the pros and cons of our personal choice and our situation. Those who have taken the shot are risking any associated side effects from the various vaccines, some documented, and some which may not show up until years from now. Those who have abstained from the vaccine are risking the symptoms of Covid-19, and are also risking being outcast from society as vaccination status becomes a social currency. This last part is quite concerning to me as it impedes basic human right to choose, a right that we should all be entitled to. On top of this, general distrust of government (and of the vaccine) falls along certain demographic lines, which means that groups that are already marginalize are more likely to be fearful of the vaccine, and are subsequently set further back for not taking it.

I also find it at least worthy of contemplation that doctors, nurses, medics, and other various front line workers, who one would assume would have the best ground level perspective on the affects of Covid-19, have chosen to stand-up against a vaccine mandate at the risk of losing their jobs. Surely amongst that group are some conspiracy theory nuts, but that can't possibly account for such large numbers (which I think comes in around 10% of these groups of professionals).

At the end of it, I believe everyone should be allowed to make the choice on whether or not to get the vaccine, or which vaccine to get, or whether or not to take the booster shot, or whether or not to vaccinate their kids. After all, the research that I'm seeing shows that the affects of the vaccine works on the person taking it, and that it shouldn't matter if the person next to you has taken it. There are no hard stats to show that the vaccinated are any less capable of carrying and transmitting the virus. And currently, at least in Ontario, there is no noticeable strain on the health care system (specifically ICU beds) relating to Covid-19. There is however, (at least anecdotal) evidence to show that some of these systems or services are being impacted by vaccine mandates (and the fall-out from workers refusing to comply and being sent home/suspended/fired from work). So I have to ask, would you rather have a un-vaccinated firefighter come rescue you from a burning building, or you rather take a pass and let the fire do its thing?


Freedom of choice is definitely a privilege we have in Canada - while I respect the choice of others; I just hope they aren't making it for the sake of just opposing a government approach (rather than believing in the science) or follow some form of misinformation to do so; that would lead them to an even worse slippery slope.
_________________________
'08 //M3 - now @ 90,xxx km - wtf did i do?
'13 x1 - now @ 99,xxx km - a2b car
'10 x3 - now @ 123,xxx km - time 2 go?
'03 s2k - now @ 80,xxx km - a2a car
'08 535i - sold @ 149,421 km - cashed out just in time!
'08 impreza 2.5i - sold @ - 64,147 km - smh POS
'01 rav4 - killed @ 155,879 km - RIP old friend

"Driving in the snow is like sex. If you want to avoid accidents, abstinence is the best policy. If you're gonna take her for a spin, use protection." - Rick Mercer

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#10159143 - 11/12/21 10:58 PM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: hyper-s2k]
BroKe Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 09/15/01
Posts: 3498
Loc: Markham, Ontario
Fuck your choice. Respectfully
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#10159171 - 11/13/21 08:03 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: BroKe]
Risky Business Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 42483
TIL: furball wears a mask at home.

My life feels complete.

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#10159562 - 11/15/21 07:28 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: Risky Business]
furball Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9381
Loc: Toronto, ON
First time having toddler preschool germs hit my inner-circle ... plus during a pandemic (We're still in it?! Fuuuck)

All this shit new to to me ...

And hey, we have a 4-month old to worry about .. trying to keep him clean and clear...

 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
TIL: furball wears a mask at home.

My life feels complete.

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#10159809 - 11/15/21 01:42 PM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: furball]
355-Si Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 4346
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
You'll be happy to know that if your little one gets covid, he/she will likely be fine and you'll be the one to drop to the floor.

So from the parental standpoint, very little to worry about.
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#10161381 - 11/17/21 11:29 PM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: 355-Si]
A2B-Lexus Offline
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Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 45533
Loc: Raptors Land
 Originally Posted By: 355-Si
We do a Covid call maybe once every 2 weeks.
Itís always an unvaccinated patient (actually no, one person was fully vaxed and had it.)

Its honestly much better.

EMRG isnít packed with Covid, ICU has room too.

We havenít had a Covid case (I mean me and my partner) in maybe 3 weeks now.


Just catching up. This is good to know.

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#10161466 - 11/18/21 08:13 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: A2B-Lexus]
porschetr Offline
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Registered: 05/15/01
Posts: 23275
Loc: WBridge
Canada is lifting PCR test for vaccinated Canadians retuning from short trips less than 72hours.
Not sure when it comes to effect.
If soon, I might go down to Miami next week for a couple of days.
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#10162151 - 11/19/21 05:45 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: porschetr]
c2k Moderator Offline
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Registered: 05/21/00
Posts: 19175
Loc: Wiesloch-Walldorf, Germany
 Originally Posted By: porschetr
Canada is lifting PCR test for vaccinated Canadians retuning from short trips less than 72hours.
Not sure when it comes to effect.
If soon, I might go down to Miami next week for a couple of days.


I really can't wait for that to happen. Parts pricing in Canada needs to GTFO.
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Who cares

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#10162732 - 11/19/21 07:49 PM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: c2k]
porschetr Offline
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Registered: 05/15/01
Posts: 23275
Loc: WBridge
Eh, it's lifted on the 30th.
The timing wouldn't work out for me.
I could go for Nov 24th-26th.
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#10164093 - 11/23/21 08:33 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: porschetr]
Risky Business Offline
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Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 42483
So the parents in my daughter's JK class are ECSTATIC about vaccines being available for their soon to be 5 year olds.

I mean, wtf, are you serious? Is everyone here going to rush out and vaccinate their children, what's CSI ON's take on this?

I am keeping an open mind on this, I simply don't see the point. I don't even think there have been any deaths of kids without comorbidities from covid. The only questions to answer that I don't have clear information on are long term side effects of contracting covid (assuming they already didn't have it, although I think they probably have) vs long term side effects of the vaccines that we know nothing about?




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#10164108 - 11/23/21 08:54 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: Risky Business]
furball Offline
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9381
Loc: Toronto, ON
It's that warm fuzzy feeling they get, so they can 'bypass' any social-distancing/logical norms you should do in these new times...

With the number of schools going into closure due to 'outbreaks', this is nuts ...

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#10164111 - 11/23/21 08:55 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: furball]
Denis Si Offline
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Registered: 04/11/01
Posts: 2790
Loc: T.O.
So whats the deal with 5-11? I dont know what to think with this one....
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#10164114 - 11/23/21 09:01 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: furball]
Risky Business Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 42483
 Originally Posted By: furball
It's that warm fuzzy feeling they get, so they can 'bypass' any social-distancing/logical norms you should do in these new times...

With the number of schools going into closure due to 'outbreaks', this is nuts ...



One of the parents immediately said "they can finally travel"

Yea, that's sound reasoning to vaccinate a 4 year old in a couple months. I am actually getting pretty fucking angry about it, because I know I will be looked at as the scum for actually wanting to hold off.

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#10164142 - 11/23/21 09:54 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: Risky Business]
Big Tasty Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/10/02
Posts: 18658
Loc: Toronto
Last week a kid in a younger rep soccer team (8 or 9 yrs old) caught the rona. This wouldn't matter to me but we have several teams and age groups practicing in the dome, they practice in different areas but you can see how easily this could spread to everyone there and then families, other players during game days..etc. But I guess this is no different from someone at a school getting it and they keep that class home while having the rest of the students still go.

I'll still play the waiting game for now to see how things progress before getting my younger daughters the shot. My 13yr old got hers with no issues but still, not jumping to be first in line for this.

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#10164156 - 11/23/21 10:05 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: Big Tasty]
Risky Business Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 42483
If vaccines helped stop the spread, sure, but since they don't....
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#10164494 - 11/24/21 06:37 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: Risky Business]
Denis Si Offline
Post Master


Registered: 04/11/01
Posts: 2790
Loc: T.O.
They will force it one way or another. Either through sports activities, travel requirements or i guess even eating out.... just wonder when will that come. Spring 2022? By march break?
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#10164515 - 11/24/21 08:08 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: Risky Business]
furball Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9381
Loc: Toronto, ON
They don't?

 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
If vaccines helped stop the spread, sure, but since they don't....

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#10164522 - 11/24/21 08:16 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: furball]
Risky Business Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 42483
Studies I read don't quantify the benefit

"you are less likely to spread"
"lower chance of spread"

What does this mean? Do we use our imagination to determine metrics? Point me to the results, I am keeping an open mind. Spread aside, what's the cost vs. benefit vaccinating young children who are not at risk?


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#10164554 - 11/24/21 08:58 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: furball]
Denis Si Offline
Post Master


Registered: 04/11/01
Posts: 2790
Loc: T.O.
 Originally Posted By: furball
They don't?

 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
If vaccines helped stop the spread, sure, but since they don't....

They dont. You can stil get it and spread it. the MINIMIZE it

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#10164596 - 11/24/21 10:05 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: Risky Business]
furball Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9381
Loc: Toronto, ON
So, are we discussing semantics then?

"less likely", "lower chance" does indeed indicate whatever study is mentioned "works" ....

Challenge then is, is that "work" mean 1% decrease, 10%, 80%... is that what we're discussing?

 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
benefit vaccinating young children who are not at risk?


Perhaps... a benefit to vaxxing the 5-11, is more on them NOT getting it and becoming super spreaders? (i.e. they typically don't get too sick, requiring hospitalization etc.)


[UPDATE] -- This story actually involves the latest African variant .....
In other news, obvi this has no stats, but is a (single) real-world scenario:
- In HK, once you arrive, you're quarantined for 14 days.
- Seems 1 individual was in the hotel wearing a mask with a 1-way valve, and infected another individual directly across the hallway ...
- Doesn't appear they were locking lips and doing the dirty dirty (they mention cameras, and the fact the 1-way valve dude opened his door a few times, not wearing mask, wearing a 1-way valve, etc...)

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/heal...ish-valve-style

 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
Studies I read don't quantify the benefit

"you are less likely to spread"
"lower chance of spread"

What does this mean? Do we use our imagination to determine metrics? Point me to the results, I am keeping an open mind. Spread aside, what's the cost vs. benefit vaccinating young children who are not at risk?


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#10164605 - 11/24/21 10:16 AM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: furball]
furball Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9381
Loc: Toronto, ON
Here's the 'official' Pfizer test results of 5-11...

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-releas...topline-results

Glancing thru the Canadian NACI results here ... even though, TYPICALLY children aged 5-11 would get mild asymptomatic cases... those with underlying would get it worse yadda yadda yadda ...

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/phac-a...1-years-age.pdf

 Originally Posted By: "An Advisory Committee Statement (ACS) National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI) Recommendation on the use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine (10 mcg) in children 5-11 years of age. Published: November 19, 2021"
Efficacy: Preliminary efficacy data were limited to the evaluable efficacy population from Cohort
1 (individuals who did not have evidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection prior to dose 2; 1,305
randomized to receive the vaccine; 663 randomized to receive placebo). As of October 8, 2021
(data cut-off date for analysis), a total of 19 confirmed, symptomatic cases of COVID-19 were
identified at least 7 days after dose 2 of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine or placebo in
study participants 5-11 years of age. The estimated efficacy of the vaccine against symptomatic
COVID-19 from 7 days after dose 2 was 90.7% (95% CI: 67.7 to 98.3%; 3 cases identified in the
vaccine group and 16 cases in the placebo group).An analysis of efficacy by various subgroups
(sex, race, and ethnicity, presence of comorbidities, and country of recruitment) resulted in point
estimates of vaccine efficacy (all above 85%) that were similar to the overall estimate. However,
many of the subgroup efficacy estimates were based on a small number of cases, resulting in
large confidence intervals around these point estimates.
The majority of confirmed cases in study participants were identified in August and September
2021, at a time when the Delta variant was the predominant circulating strain in the US and
globally. However, no sequence analysis was reported on case isolates to determine whether
they were caused by the Delta variant or another variant.
None of the identified cases met the pre-defined criteria for a severe case of COVID-19, therefore
the data did not include estimates of vaccine efficacy against severe outcomes such as
hospitalization, MIS-C or death (


Edited by furball (11/24/21 10:22 AM)

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#10164769 - 11/24/21 02:59 PM Re: COVID alert fatigue - we be so fucked? [Re: furball]
4Three Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 12/21/00
Posts: 5335
Loc: Markham, ON, Canada
I would hope that all their testing is objective and in good faith. I admit that I'm not great at reading these technical studies, but it looks like we're talking about roughly 2000 kids in in this test group with ~1300 receiving the vaccine, and ~660 getting a placebo. From the entire group, they had 19 confirmed symptomatic cases; 3 of those in vaccinated members and 16 in the placebo (unvaccinated) group. So we're talking about ~1% of that group being symptomatic, and of that 1%, about we're looking at about 1:5 ratio of vaccinated to unvaccinated. It would appear to support that vaccinated members of that group are less likely to have symptoms, but IMO, an overall 1% showing symptoms is a low risk.

I think it would be useful to know if the entire group was tested, to show how many were asymptomatic (no symptoms, but carrying, and possibly transmitting). At the onset of this pandemic, that was one of the most concerning issues, that people wouldn't be showing symptoms, and would unknowingly be passing this thing around. And my understanding is that having less symptoms does not equate to less chance of carrying/spreading (but I could be wrong, and please let me know if I am).

Personally, I can't help but be skeptical (link) about any large company. Not that I think they are overtly trying to be evil, but when there is so much pressure to create a solution, some corners might be cut, and as long as it falls within an acceptable case count, the business just moves forward. Isn't it the same reason why most of us would not think about buying a first model year car? We know there will be bugs. Maybe let all the bugs get worked out before we personally commit? I don't have any 5-11 year-olds, but if I did, I'd hold off for sure.

I respect everyone's personal stance, and Covid has affected everyone in dramatic and devastating ways. We all have to make the best choice for ourselves. I totally support people who are eager to get the vaccine, and also those who are hesitant.

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