#9263804 - 02/26/18 05:15 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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dirtyS13drifta
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Yeah I just looked and we have roughly the same sunset. 6 isn't even that bad. there's 10-15 minutes of very usable twilight.
Lastly headlamps are $50(?) for a good one.
Don't let yourself make those sort of excuses.
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#9263832 - 02/26/18 05:50 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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Design
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11482
Loc: The OC
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A little race recap from the Black Canyon 100k.
Overall it went really well. The second half was deceptively hard, and much harder than the first half, so I wasn’t as fast as I thought I could be. I was able to run steady and pretty strong thought, and did a good job of working through the low points of the race. It got pretty warm, and the dry desert air made it hard to tell you were sweating, but once I realized how salty I was, I upped my water and salt tab intake. Nutrition was good...didn’t carry anything and just ate cookies and watermelon from the aid station. Managed to move up from 107th at the mile 50 aid station to 84th at the finish. I love picking off the carnage late in a race!
Finish time was 12:44, which is a 30 minute 100k PR.
I’m pretty sore 2 days later but just managed a 4 mile jog without too much discomfort.
Next up: Way Too Cool 50k in less than 2 weeks!
Great job man. 
My last 20 miler was exactly the opposite... faded pretty fast after mile 17. Combination of running a gradual uphill combined with a faster than usual pace. Once I turned around and headed back downhill I felt fine. But it's a good reminder not to go out too hard and save some strength for the 2nd half of the marathon.
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#9263984 - 02/26/18 10:06 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Design]
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dirtyS13drifta
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Am I seeing snow for way too cool this year?
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#9264491 - 02/27/18 01:02 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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charlie_td1
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Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 39110
Loc: DC
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So here's my proposed training schedule....any critiques? It's kind of a combination of a couple different programs. 12 week build up, 10 week mid-summer, then 12 week push to race day.
Build up:
Summer:
Fall/Final push:
Edited by Chas (02/27/18 01:02 PM)
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#9265632 - 02/28/18 01:48 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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dirtyS13drifta
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Am I seeing snow for way too cool this year? Lol, yep.  The course is at all of 1500ft ffs!
I think Varner is running it? Maybe it was another one I follow.
Should I send you my shoe-chains? lol
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#9265636 - 02/28/18 01:52 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: ]
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dirtyS13drifta
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Ok, so my tentative plan is chillax on ultras for the first half of the season.
So my new goal is cutting some time of 1/2. Last year I managed 1:39:5# with 6 months of "training" mostly being increasing milage with once a month LT runs. I think I benefited from a lot of cycling though.
Now I'm trying to figure out how to "train" for a 1/2 (cue stickaz saying there's no point unless I hit 50 MPW). In the past I did some speedwork and I've played around this last off season for shits and giggles.
Basically I've got 18 weeks, a base of ~20-25mpw. What should I be doing?
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#9266034 - 02/28/18 09:53 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: ]
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schtickaz.ai
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Registered: 01/23/12
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I think a half has much lower mileage requirements if we're just talking about half assing one. I still think you'd want at least a 12 week block where you get up to around 40/45, basically a thon program with a shorter long run. Will you get a teeny bit faster with another 17 mpw year? Sure
Chas is that pfitzs 12/55? Daniels?
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#9266430 - 03/01/18 10:47 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: schtickaz.ai]
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dirtyS13drifta
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I already pre-empted your opinion regurgitation. Look I've been to your source, and found dozens of posters who've clocked 9#;## halves off less than 40-45 week.
Like yeah you can't get down to <85min probably on that (unless your a teenager with a health background in speed) but let's not like it's a binary where <40mpw is useless.
Also, that 17mpw made me faster than you've ever been, so it'd be helpful if you STFU.
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#9266604 - 03/01/18 12:23 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: ]
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Design
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Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11482
Loc: The OC
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I think you're on the right path - make each run a quality run. I'm on track to PR this month's marathon on a 3-run-per-week training schedule. I do other activity in between (strength & elliptical). But my core runs are all high(er) intensity.
My suggestion is to work in a tempo session during one of your midweek runs. And maybe do repeats/hills later in the week if you can swing it. Pretty sure you'd see some solid results in as early as 3-4 weeks.
For reference, my two midweek runs are 6-10 miles each.
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09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#9268789 - 03/04/18 10:24 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: schtickaz.ai]
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Sir Ironpool
Sponsored by Toyota
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Registered: 03/12/01
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Loc: Long Beach, CA
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Way Too Cool 50k #7 went pretty well yesterday. Not my fastest, but not my slowest. 5:02. I really wanted a sub 5, but I got stuck behind a guy and a girl from mile 20-26 that we’re moving slower than what I probably (and have done) could have managed, but didn’t have the energy to put in a surge to pass with authority. Also, the trails were in extra shitty condition. More mud and water than I’ve experienced there. A good 10 creek crossings with the first being a mile and a half in. The second was deep enough to get my balls wet. Still fun though, just not the fastest.
Also, for some reason, every single time I do this race, I get major leg cramps (quads and calves) after climbing the steepest and longest climb of the course, Goat Hill at mile 26. There’s an AS at the top and like clockwork, once I start descending they want to go into full-on lockdown mode. I’ve tried everything over the last 7 years and nothing helps. Pretty frustrating to have the lungs to hammer those last 4 miles, but legs that won’t cooperate.
Other than that, it was another good indicator of my fitness so far this year. I pushed it, the miles flew by, and I had no low moments. Love this race!
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#9269186 - 03/05/18 11:43 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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Design
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Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11482
Loc: The OC
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Beast.
Well done man. 
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09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#9271111 - 03/07/18 10:19 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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dirtyS13drifta
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5k? It looks like 10% more than Oregon Coast 50km overall. Sound about right?
Though the end of that goat hill climb looks gnarly AF.
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#9271215 - 03/07/18 11:56 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: ]
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Design
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Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11482
Loc: The OC
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Wow he made that look easy lol.
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#9276015 - 03/14/18 08:19 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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dirtyS13drifta
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I'm totally not following my "structure" but I did manage a pace/tempo-ish run last week and some intervals... (cherry picked my fav of each from the early weeks of my program).
For comparison, all of last year I probably did 5-6tempo runs and 2 sets of intervals. I better get fucking faster for that pain. I'm still not sure if this is a little early to train/if I'll wear out before race day.
Also a little unsure of actual paces having down 0 fast racing in 9 months (which was the most productive 9 mos of running I've had). I'm sort of assuming an easy 2% improvement in half time based on that. Not sure if that's super cautious or wildly optimistic.
For comparison Last year I went from running 10 miles/mo to 25mi/week for race and set a PR by 10 minutes. Basically I had about 300 miles in teh 12 months prior to the race
This year I'll have about 1,200 miles going from 20/week to about 35week and two ultras.
On one hand I could probably just to Pace/Tempo-ish runs and shave a few minutes. On the other hand maybe I'm reaching my margins.
CN: Dirty has now clue how fast to set his tempos, if they're even worth it, and what he can actually do in the half
And he's whining about running hard again after 9 months of cruisers.
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#9276137 - 03/14/18 10:36 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: ]
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Design
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Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11482
Loc: The OC
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Sounds like you're taking your tempos really hard. Not a bad thing; probably just feels more like "work" than actually getting some enjoyment out of the journey.
I might suggest a couple sessions where you dial it back to 8/10 and see how things go. I usually target a little slower than my 10K pace for 6-8 miles during half marathon training. YMMV.
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#9276195 - 03/14/18 11:28 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Design]
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dirtyS13drifta
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I think it's more a factor of going soft to get my milage up.
Like I've had months where I've not really left zone 3(and mostly zone 2). So zone 4 efforts are harder than I expect.
That said, Last week I did 2 easy, 3 @ 10km, 1 easy
I had to guess at my 10km pace. I definitely had gas in the tank. I was holding a "reasonably Hard" pace (8/10?). I mean I was happy to be done though. I did intervals 3 days later.
I probably over-did my intervals though (ran 800s at ~mile pace).
I think it's more most runs I used to stop because of time running out. I mean I was happy to be done, but not not waiting for the end. Basically it's all mental.
This weeks tempo would be 5 miles at 10+15s(so 1/2 way between last HMP and hopeful HMP)
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#9277433 - 03/15/18 10:23 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: ]
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schtickaz.ai
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Registered: 01/23/12
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I look at tempos as two quite different possibilities: 20 minute tempo and 40 minute tempo
The 20 minute tempo is a bit closer to 10k capability and the 40 minute is a bit closer to HMP
I can do the 20 minute tempo workout but often the 40 minute tempo breaks my spirit so I don't attempt it but 1x/2x year. Mostly because I don't take the half race seriously and don't mind underperforming hehe.
I suspect (but am not sure) that intervals closer to 5k/3k race pace are far better at increasing your lactate threshold/tolerance so they actually make you faster anyways. The tempo stuff is about mentally learning to suffer/exploring your planned race pace/getting used to it.
Anyways this is just my confirmation bias theory as I can't stand tempos but I can tolerate intervals (track workouts are actually kinda fun tbh)
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#9280544 - 03/19/18 11:30 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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Design
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Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11482
Loc: The OC
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You'll find a way. Every week here is packed with Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, camping, homework, Jujitsu and kids run club. Somehow we find time for a few runs during the week. 
In other news, got a new PR at the LA Marathon this weekend. 3:52:40 official time. My fifth attempt and the most fun I've had on the course. Race report to follow.
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09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#9280561 - 03/19/18 11:37 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Design]
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schtickaz.ai
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Registered: 01/23/12
Posts: 36106
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Probably the best weather on the course in a decade or more
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#9282844 - 03/21/18 10:35 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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Design
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Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11482
Loc: The OC
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You're nuts lol. That's some serious training for sure.
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09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#9282958 - 03/21/18 11:48 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Design]
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Design
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Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11482
Loc: The OC
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Thanks everyone for the kudos. Here's a quick synopsis.
Many of you may have remembered the sh*tstorm I had last year due to malnutrition and overall exhaustion. I used that as a learning experience for this year's marathon. Training over the last four months was pretty straightforward. On weekdays I'd take the kids with me to the gym; weekends I'd train on my own or with the run club.
- Mon: 6-8 mile Tempo @ 70-80%
- Tues: Strength and recovery
- Weds: Tempo, hills or repeats, building week over week
- Thurs: Strength and recovery
- Fri: Rest or easy 4-6 miles
- Sat: Long run
- Sun: Rest or light strength/recovery
My ortho & PT had recommended I also work on strengthening the hips for better running form in the latter miles. I felt this and the consistent tempos made a much bigger impact than previous training plans.
Race day was predictable. Woke up at 2:30 AM, drove to the finish line, took a shuttle to the start. I had learned that from the time I eat at 2:30 AM, to the time I start the race at 7 AM, I need some extra fuel. So this time I scarfed down some fruit and oatmeal at around 5:30 AM. Grabbed photos with the run club and went to the corral. Felt strong and alert, ready to stick to my predetermined pace of 8:45 or so.
Miles 1-3 were frustrating. First, my Garmin had trouble pinpointing a reliable GPS. And my average pace was all over the place. Second, despite being in the corral, it was a crowded start and tough to maintain anything below 11:00 the first 15 minutes. And third, it was 48* lol.
At the end of mile 3 I could feel my hands again. My Garmin was telling me I was about 30-45 sec off my average pace. And the mile markers confirmed I was running slower than I was expecting. It was at this point I threw my hands in the air and decided that I'd run by feel. Mile 4-9 were predictable. Saw a few friends on the course, snapped a few shots. I was having fun but I was feeling a tad faded, and still a little lethargic. So I took in some extra Gatorade at the aid stations, and took an extra gel shot. Boom, that did it.
By mile 10 I was back in my groove. I could tell I was making up time, holding around 8:30-8:45 pace. And my Garmin seemed to be running more consistent. So I forced myself to hold back and keep some in reserve, never dropping below 8:25-8:30. Passed the 4 hour pacers before the midpoint. Kept to the strategy of walking through every aid station. I was losing 10-20 seconds each time; but I'd come out of the gate refreshed and ready to rock the next mile.
Mile 15: Long rolling hill up Sunset Blvd, feeling good.
Mile 16: Downhill, still good.
Mile 17: No wall yet, feeling good.
Mile 18: Still good, but started hitting some rolling hills. Would get faded and then recover shortly after crossing the plateaus.
Mile 19: Mild but loooooong incline. Could feel the calves starting to complain. Took a salt tab. Powered through. Hit a few friends at a cheer station. Snapped a few pics. Gave me the motivation I needed to keep going.
Mile 20-23, Tough... longer stretches of mild inclines. Feeling a little queasy/faded after each one, but course support was AWESOME. There were donuts, beer, bacon, oranges, red vines... you name it, they had it. Pace was starting to slow, but was still doing ok.
Mile 23.5: Hit the run club aid station. My coach had a shot of root beer waiting for me, and reminded me everything from here was downhill. I left feeling refreshed and motivated.
Miles 24-26.2, flew downhill at around 8:35. Hit a mild cramp in the right calf around mile 25. Slowed down and took a salt tab until it subsided. Feet and calves felt heavy, but still feeling relatively good. Walked the last aid station and shot through the last mile at around 8:10-8:20. Finished feeling strong and with a smile, and with some mojo in reserve.
Despite walking through all 22 aid stations and snapping over a dozen photos on the course, I beat my best marathon time by over 7 minutes. And nearly 45 minutes better than last year's marathon.
- Official time: 3:52:40.
- Finisher #2168 of roughly 20,000.
- Finisher #236 in my division.
The combination of the cooler temps, course support, and a commitment to having fun (vs. just going for time) made this the 2nd best marathon to date. The best still goes to marathon #1 lol.
That's all I can think of for now. Thanks for reading.
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09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#9285192 - 03/23/18 06:31 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: schtickaz.ai]
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Design
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Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 11482
Loc: The OC
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Thanks man. I'm sure you'll rock the 5K. On that half, just go out there and have fun.
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09 CWP MS3 01 Echo 5MT 00 EBP Si - Sold - Pics89 Camaro - Sold CSI. What's your diversion?
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#9302327 - 04/15/18 01:01 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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charlie_td1
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 39110
Loc: DC
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Just cruised a 12 miler at a 7:28 overall pace. Tempo was fairly consistent except mile 10, apparently I went stupid and ran a 7:13. The run overall felt easy; as always, I had to consciously hold myself back.
I'm not happy with how inconsistent my split times have been as of late.
Usually, I can stay + or - 5 seconds or so of intended pace, but it's been a struggle lately. Yesterday I was hoping to do a shakedown ~5ish miles at a 7:30 to stay loose and I ended up at like a 7:10. This is how I get injured 
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