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#105969 - 08/17/05 03:02 AM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
jwyoung Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Ca, USA
edumicate me... can you point me a direction or let me know why you chose a b20b? why not a c5? or c1? pros cons? price.. blahblah.. anything
_________________________
00' E95P Si 178whp, 122tq on 89 octane - B16 all motor

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#105970 - 08/17/05 09:42 AM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Pros:
B20 has longer stroke, bigger bore. . .hence more displacement. Like getting a stroker kit.
Block is extremely inexpensive.
Easy way to get power and torque. Though its a bit involved if you want to do it right.

Cons:
Sleeves are thin, and are likely to crack under very high pressure, ie. high rev, nitrous, turbo, too high CR.
Not able to rev as high as a C5 or C1 block in stock form.

I am sure there are some more but those are essentially the ones IMO.

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#105971 - 08/18/05 09:06 AM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Update: Finished bottom end internals about 3:30am this morning at home. Going to the shop now to do some more.

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#105972 - 08/18/05 01:24 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
VictoriaSiR Offline
Post Master


Registered: 11/05/99
Posts: 2608
Loc: Victoria, British Columbia, Ca...
Fucking sex!

But is a Block guard gonna be enough for even 8000 rpm @ 11.5? I knwo you were saying you'd only be going there for track days. I have been looking into doing the same but sleeving the block instead.

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#105973 - 08/18/05 01:38 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Actually I have seen people on higher CR without a block guard. I won't be at 11.5 just yet; that will be after head work, this is going to be about 11.1. If you have the money to sleeve the block, by all means do it. I didn't have it. . .and now I am crunching cause school starts next Monday and I didn't know; thought it was the following week.

I am now waiting on the Endyn kit, which I want to get before I drop the motor back in cause I hear installation is a bitch with the motor in the car. And should be getting a Today flywheel tomorrow.

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#105974 - 08/18/05 03:50 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
jwyoung Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Ca, USA
wow... that's hot.. what's the cost break down to be like?
_________________________
00' E95P Si 178whp, 122tq on 89 octane - B16 all motor

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#105975 - 08/18/05 06:35 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Entire thing running me about $2000, considering I doing it, I don't pay for labour.
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#105976 - 08/18/05 09:24 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
surubasi00 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 01/07/03
Posts: 3792
Loc: VA
awesome dude..


good luck with it all....and contrary to homeboys advice,,, the type R mani is much better than the fucking b16...you will see when you get one...the b16 is fucking tiny

Dave
_________________________
Turns out my dog is allergic to peanuts. - FortCollins

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#105977 - 08/18/05 11:09 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Thanks. . .I'll probably get the manifold when its time for the head. Right now I am having some issues. Went to get the oil pan and pick up from the shop to find that the pickup wasn't there. Tried the GSR but it was too short and can't find an LS in time so I might just have to go to the dealer tomorrow. Boy somn would have to happen, can't just go smooth at all.
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#105978 - 08/19/05 01:36 AM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
very sweet, seems to be coming along nicely!
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

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#105979 - 08/19/05 07:57 AM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
Dr. BrokenLimits Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 31245
Loc: Nebraska
looks a lot like mine congrats man.



_________________________
Brandon
BrokenLimits@gmail.com

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#105980 - 08/19/05 08:30 AM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Thanks guys. Wow thats some dome on those pistons
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#105981 - 08/19/05 10:24 AM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
Dr. BrokenLimits Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 31245
Loc: Nebraska
12.7:1
_________________________
Brandon
BrokenLimits@gmail.com

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#105982 - 08/19/05 12:04 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
That would have massacred the B20 sleeves, looks good though.
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#105983 - 08/19/05 01:49 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
jwyoung Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Ca, USA
.. what kind of power we looking at b6ixteen?
_________________________
00' E95P Si 178whp, 122tq on 89 octane - B16 all motor

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#105984 - 08/19/05 02:55 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
surubasi00 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 01/07/03
Posts: 3792
Loc: VA
i would put him at about 210

Dave
_________________________
Turns out my dog is allergic to peanuts. - FortCollins

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#105985 - 08/19/05 06:33 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Yeah, possibly ~187whp and ~150wtq or so. I am not really very big on dyno numbers still. . .I am more interested in seeing what improvements I have made since my last 15.2s B16 run.
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#105986 - 08/21/05 08:02 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Ok I have a situation; went to put the head on today. . .didn't pull it off before. Noticed 4 bent valves, two intake and two exhaust. So now I am on the market for valves, just need to replace these ones. So if there is anyone who would like to sell/offer me their used B16 valves, let me know. . .I want some like yesterday. School starts tomorrow and it now seems I won't have my car not even for this week.
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#105987 - 08/22/05 01:22 AM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
Bro, I've got a complete set of my b16 valves cuz i got omni's. U seem cool so just pay for shipping + $10 for my time spent & shipping materials & I'll send u all of them. This is a sweet project u got so I'd like to help u get it finished.
They will be coming from CA though so probably not the quickest shipping, but if u can't find anything else just let me know.
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

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#105988 - 08/22/05 09:52 AM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
PM sent.
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#105989 - 08/22/05 04:26 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
jwyoung Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Ca, USA
steve.. ur such a nice guy
_________________________
00' E95P Si 178whp, 122tq on 89 octane - B16 all motor

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#105990 - 08/22/05 08:16 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Yeah I owe him one!
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#105991 - 08/22/05 11:22 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
no problem. just trying to help u out so u can finish this project & let us know how it turns out.
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

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#105992 - 08/23/05 09:25 AM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Thanks a lot for the help Steve; I just received the valves from UPS.
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#105993 - 08/23/05 11:21 AM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
cool
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

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#105994 - 08/24/05 10:22 AM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
More issues with the head; although I was thinking this would happen. So I took out the bent valves yesterday (don't have pics right now), and found the valve guides looking like this. . .


on the intake side, the exhaust ones are damaged also but the intake took a beating. Intake valvles were bent worse than the exhaust ones also.

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#105995 - 08/24/05 01:36 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
ouch. any idea why this all happened? how was ur b16 running with these problems?
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

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#105996 - 08/24/05 02:05 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
It happened because and when the engine actually blew, rod snapped so piston loose, hit valves causing them to bend and when they did, they were forced against the walls of the valve guide causing them in turn to crack/break. When the engine blew, I was at about 6k rpm in 3rd so I imagine quite a bit of compression. So I don't think it was crack while the car was running per say; I presume it all happened in a single moment. After the hydrolock though, it wasn't running quite as strong, but it was ok for the while. I never thought this build would get so involved. . .so it will be back to the machine shop for new guides.
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#105997 - 08/24/05 02:17 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
dam, that sucks. i didn't even realize that ur b16 blew like that. just though u were building a b20 just cuz.
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

Top
#105998 - 08/24/05 10:36 PM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Ooh yeah; I was planning on doing the B20 anyway but not at this point. The engine going just pushed me to do it even quicker. Thats why I am trying to have it done right cause I have no other car but this one.
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#105999 - 09/02/05 12:58 AM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
The motor is ~finished now but it runs like crap, starts with no problems and idles really nice ~650rpm. I think the crappy running is due to the fact I am using the stock Si ECU and injectors. . . it seems this motor wants a lot more fuel so tomorrow I am going to try a GSR ECU and see if that helps, cause the way it runs is just crazy. I feel a little torque from start and then above 2000rpm, it seems like the power just dying. Haven't taken it pass 4000rpm so I don't know what the top-end feels like but right now it needs some work.

Also there is oil leak at the oil pressure switch which needs attention ASAP. I am going to try and remedy that problem and also adjust the valves to see if that helps. I will post some pics later on; I also have a short digicam video of first startup.

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#106000 - 09/02/05 01:07 AM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
sweet! be easy on it & get it tuned asap. its probably running lean as hell, which obviously could be very dangerous.
get hondata, crome... if u dont already & take it to be tuned, for now I'd have them do part throttle tuning to clean up the a/f ratio. Then drive it around to break it in. Then go back for some full tuning.
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

Top
#106001 - 09/02/05 01:35 AM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
jwyoung Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Ca, USA
dude congrats
_________________________
00' E95P Si 178whp, 122tq on 89 octane - B16 all motor

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#106002 - 09/02/05 01:39 AM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
I do have the S200 and a chipped P28 but I don't have the conversion harness yet, I was going to break it in with whatever stock ECU will work well and then get it tuned after. It is said that the GSR P72 could be used, even though the motor still requires more fuel than a GSR. And yeah, I am oh so easy on it. . .2000rpm then shift.
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#106003 - 09/02/05 01:41 AM Re: B20B/B16A2 Frankenstein Build. . .Questions and Issues!!
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Quote:

dude congrats



Thanks but lets hold that til about 3 weeks to see how things go with it.

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