TT ZR1 900WHP on pump,100% stock longblock

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#4810644 - 06/10/10 02:16 AM TT ZR1 900WHP on pump,100% stock longblock
progressi progressi Post Master Sr Registered: 06/01/01 Posts: 9134	http://www.flickr.com/photos/ipsmotorsports/sets/72157623877946145/ Quote: Summary of the set-up is as follows: Bone-stock LS9 (Including stock cam) IPS Twin-turbo Kit featuring HTA 35R Turbos & Tial 44mm WG's IPS Custom Fuel System IPS FMIC Kit w/Tial BOV IPS High-output Alternator Kit RPS Triple-disc Carbon Clutch RPM Level 5+ Tranny & Rear-end PFADT CF Driveshaft DeWitts Aluminum Radiator LS7 Engine Accessory Parts No dyno #s w/o the owner's permission but I will say that it made as much power at 7psi as it did with the stock blower and many bolt-ons did at 16-17psi At 15psi and pump gas (No meth) it has made more than any other LS9 ZR1 we have ever heard of E85 and larger injectors are going in on Friday and it is only going to go up from there Dyno graph's / Vid's and further info to come! Jeff
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#4810883 - 06/10/10 08:23 AM Re: TT ZR1 900WHP on pump,100% stock longblock [Re: progressi]
NOHC NOHC Post Master Supreme Registered: 09/18/01 Posts: 39093 Loc: Lebanon, Virginia	Originally Posted By: progressi No dyno #s w/o the owner's permission So, the owner has a small penis? _________________________ -Mike- *Ask me about your broken 360/PS3*
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#4812742 - 06/10/10 06:35 PM Re: TT ZR1 900WHP on pump,100% stock longblock [Re: NOHC]
Panda Express Panda Express Post Master Supreme Registered: 12/27/00 Posts: 44399 Loc: DFW, Texas	Vid? _________________________ #TeamLH aka old ladies at IKEA walk up to me and ask "Do you work for Mercedes Benz?" #Hamfosi My FlickR y0!
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#4813196 - 06/10/10 09:30 PM Re: TT ZR1 900WHP on pump,100% stock longblock [Re: NOHC]
progressi progressi Post Master Sr Registered: 06/01/01 Posts: 9134	Originally Posted By: NOHC Originally Posted By: progressi No dyno #s w/o the owner's permission So, the owner has a small penis? http://www.flickr.com/photos/ipsmotorsports/4627320403/in/set-72157623877946145/
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#4813198 - 06/10/10 09:31 PM Re: TT ZR1 900WHP on pump,100% stock longblock [Re: Panda Express]
progressi progressi Post Master Sr Registered: 06/01/01 Posts: 9134	I dont know if there's a vid,but I just posted the dyno sheet. It's all there in the original link I posted.
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#4814360 - 06/11/10 11:20 AM Re: TT ZR1 900WHP on pump,100% stock longblock [Re: progressi]
hustler hustler Post Master Sr Registered: 01/09/00 Posts: 6095 Loc: Seattle, WA	I like the idea of a turbo ZR1, but mounting turbos in the back and under the car just never seemed like a good engineering idea. Exposing the turbo and the discharge tubing so low to the ground where foreign debris can splash all over these parts just seems like a bad recipe. Seem the LS1 cars don't have a choice in the matter due to lack of room. I'd rather have the big cube version of the car naturally aspirated if that setup is what I had to do.
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#4815956 - 06/11/10 08:14 PM Re: TT ZR1 900WHP on pump,100% stock longblock [Re: hustler]
danl danl Post Master Supreme Registered: 07/14/00 Posts: 12783 Loc: Maryland USA	They should have never overlayed the stock supercharged torque over the turbocharged torque curves. That powerband it completely changed. Perhaps it has enough power to be useful down low now? After 100 or 120mph on street tires you can start feeding it more than half throttle? However between the areas of 40mph and 140 its out of its zone. Too much lag then too much power. Still its awesome and I'm glad the stock bottom end can handle it. I'm willing to bet the car will be slower at everything (like autocrossing and road course racing). However it will work better at the drag strip as long as they know how to get a turbo car out of the hole. RWD with IRS is always fun. _________________________ “ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway? the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.” -Rex B16, June 11 2024
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#4816101 - 06/11/10 10:06 PM Re: TT ZR1 900WHP on pump,100% stock longblock [Re: progressi]
UglyValiant UglyValiant Post Master Sr Registered: 10/09/02 Posts: 6364 Loc: Milwaukee, WI	Quote: ...but I will say that it made as much power at 7psi as it did with the stock blower and many bolt-ons did at 16-17psi Really? I don't really believe it unless they far exceeded the adiabatic efficiency of the blower at that level of boost...but even then _________________________ 1979 Dodge Lil' Red Express Truck 1989 Shelby CSX (#500/500) The most powerful production minivan money can buy.
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#4817187 - 06/12/10 09:04 PM Re: TT ZR1 900WHP on pump,100% stock longblock [Re: UglyValiant]
danl danl Post Master Supreme Registered: 07/14/00 Posts: 12783 Loc: Maryland USA	Well its fairly simple to figure out how many lbs/min a blower or compressor can support. Anybody know the part number of the blower on the ZR1? _________________________ “ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway? the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.” -Rex B16, June 11 2024
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#4817393 - 06/12/10 11:30 PM Re: TT ZR1 900WHP on pump,100% stock longblock [Re: danl]
progressi progressi Post Master Sr Registered: 06/01/01 Posts: 9134	Originally Posted By: danl Well its fairly simple to figure out how many lbs/min a blower or compressor can support. Anybody know the part number of the blower on the ZR1? I dont know if this helps: Quote: The LS9's R2300 supercharger is a sixth-generation design from Eaton, with a case that is specific to the Corvette application. The supercharger features a new four-lobe rotor design that promotes quieter and more efficient performance, while its large, 2.3-liter displacement ensures adequate air volume at high rpm to support the engine's high-horsepower aspiration. Maximum boost pressure is 10.5 psi (0.72 bar). I found it,and a post from a Katech employee: http://www.katechengines.com/street_perf...N%20HOUSING.bmp Quote: I could not find this so our friends at Magnuson hooked us up. I was curious to see if the speculation that the LS9's supercharger was out of it's efficiency range at 18psi. By our calculations, this is not the case. At 7000rpm, the supercharger loses 6% efficiency going from 10.5psi to 18psi. In my opinion, 6% is not a huge drop. The debate came up due to a ZR1 that made 700rwhp and these numbers seemed low. I think another contributing factor is that on the chassis dyno, these cars must be seeing tremendous heat soak in the intercoolers. I would be curious to see what the intake charge temperatures are in these conditions. __________________ _Jason Harding Director of Aftermarket Operations, Katech Performance http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-corvette-zr1/2259154-eaton-tvs-r2300-compressor-map.html Edited by progressi (06/12/10 11:36 PM)
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#4817779 - 06/13/10 09:11 AM Re: TT ZR1 900WHP on pump,100% stock longblock [Re: progressi]
danl danl Post Master Supreme Registered: 07/14/00 Posts: 12783 Loc: Maryland USA	Mother of fuck I hate it when they do flow maps in volume. On top of that those are inlet volume flow levels. Outlet volume will be different as heat affects volume (however lbs/min stays the same, see why I like lbs/min?). At any rate I converted all the values from meters cubed/hour into CFM and then used 0.69 to convert from CFM to lbs/min. One lb/min will support roughly 10 horsepower. The stock car is moving about 60 lbs/min or the 1500m^3/hr area on the map. What is stock boost? 10psi? At 10psi this puts it at 1.7 pressure ratio. On the stock map this puts it at about 68% efficiency. With 80 deg F intake air temps you are looking at ~200deg F charge temps going into the intercoolers. This flow map doesn't even go out to 100 lbs/min. The highest it goes is 975 lbs/min or 2400m^3/hr. At any rate lets run the numbers for 18psi. That would be a pressure ratio of 2.2. Supercharger efficiency is off the map but looks like it would be about 56%. Charge temps with 80 deg F inlet temperature would be 327 deg F. I hope the inter coolers are up to it. The numbers just start to get REALLY ugly the further right of 650-700whp that you try to make. Sure you can do it but its just not ideal. You are spending more energy heating air up than actually making power. I don't know how efficient the stock intercoolers are but it is no small task to cool off that much air that is that hot. On the other hand it is very easy to find two 50 pound/min turbo compressors that are still well above 70% efficiency. Heating up the air less is a good thing. One thing to consider, when you say something has dropped from 70% efficiency to 60% efficiency, here is what that means. When you increase boost from say 5psi to 15psi and compressor efficiency were to stay the same the air is still heated up. In this case 5psi would be 147 deg F and 15psi would be 252 deg F at the exact same 70% compressor efficiency. When you go from 70% to 60% when increasing boost this is ADDITIONAL heating of the air! In this case if 5 psi was 147 deg F at 70% compressor efficiency then 15psi would be 280 deg F at 60% efficiency. So you have added roughly 30 deg F to the air by dropping 10% compressor efficiency on top of the 100 deg F that you added going from 5psi to 15psi. Things get ugly very quickly as you can see. _________________________ “ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway? the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.” -Rex B16, June 11 2024
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#4817786 - 06/13/10 09:19 AM Re: TT ZR1 900WHP on pump,100% stock longblock [Re: danl]
danl danl Post Master Supreme Registered: 07/14/00 Posts: 12783 Loc: Maryland USA	One more thing to cover my ass. Somebody will run 9's and probably 8's on the stock supercharger. They will ice it down before runs, upgrade the intercoolers, and run good fuel. That isn't the point. They will be just like the SVT cobra guys with pullies that pull 125mph traps first pass after sitting for 2 hours then struggle for the rest of teh day running 116-118mph traps with 30 min breaks between passes. Bring your ice cooler and have fun I guess. Meanwhile a properly set up turbo car is able to hot lap within 1mph running 40+ psi boost on pump gas. With a well engineered setup keeping charge temps ambient and within 10 deg F of ambient at the top end of the track is achievable. _________________________ “ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway? the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.” -Rex B16, June 11 2024
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#4818296 - 06/13/10 03:29 PM Re: TT ZR1 900WHP on pump,100% stock longblock [Re: danl]
progressi progressi Post Master Sr Registered: 06/01/01 Posts: 9134	Im tired today. I'll read it again after some sleep. $\:\)$ But the stuff I glossed over: The Katech employee said that as an engineered system,the air/water intercooler is effective. When the system is pushed further,he said that the intercooler would need to be addressed. Another thread mentioned the blower was near 80% efficiency,which they claimed was comparable to many OEM turbocharged setups. So,not comparing it to latest high end aftermarket stuff... is it good? I really was only posting this to point out some kind of stock block benchmark,as these arent volume cars so we dont see limits pushed often.
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#4818438 - 06/13/10 05:17 PM Re: TT ZR1 900WHP on pump,100% stock longblock [Re: progressi]
danl danl Post Master Supreme Registered: 07/14/00 Posts: 12783 Loc: Maryland USA	For a stock car I'm actually surprised at the efficiency they are getting out of a blower at those airflow levels. The older eaton stuff wasn't nearly this good. The stock setup at ~600whp airflow levels is great. It also has awesome power down low. When you overspin the stock blower it is obviously going to create more heat. So yes the intercoolers will need addressed. I don't think approaching ~900whp on the stock blower is going to be realistic without some serious work on intercooling. Even if you can intercool it well enough to be able to run pump gas I can see the supercharger life falling off drastically, but that is just a theory that has proven to be true on the older eaton stuff. If I had one of those cars I would probably just do a small pulley to get a little more boost and keep the stock intercoolers. Tune it on good 93 octane and call it a day. You are going to net some serious HP and a world class torque curve in a production car. At that point you should still be able to lap it and hammer on it at will. If drag racing is your thing you have 700-800whp on tap. If you can't run single digits with that much power then you need to find a new hobby. If you can reduce weight a bit I don't see any reason somebody can't run hit 8's at 160 plus. If you want to go over 900whp I think its about time to ditch the blower and go turbo. At that point it is a drag car and you have ruined what a ZR1 is all about in my opinion. The powerband on the turbo dyno you linked to would just suck for anything but straight line performance. _________________________ “ the only people that care about this aren't car people anyway. we don't consider EVs for anything other than point to point transportation like a bus or a plane. do you care how fast your plane can taxi down the runway? the dodge is a drag strip monster, and a hell of a good one at that.” -Rex B16, June 11 2024
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