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#10522395 - 12/18/23 08:00 AM Where are we at with the current protests?
4Three Offline
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Registered: 12/21/00
Posts: 5367
Loc: Markham, ON, Canada
I'm not sure where I stand on the politics of Israel and Gaza; seems like there is too much history of violence on both sides to hash out any peaceful resolution. I just know that massacring civilians at a music festival, and trying to bomb an entire society into oblivion, neither seem morally correct, regardless of your grievance. Maybe that just has to play itself out and there's no saving those lives. Sad.

That said, people from both sides left their homelands, I'm presuming, escaping the strife and terror, for wanting to live their lives and raise their families free of that conflict, coming here to Canada. And I get it, one might have family there still, or even feel immensely the pain and suffering that's going on there currently, and I'm ok with the protests to drum up support for your respective causes. But now we're looking at these protests targeting specific stores because their owners or CEOs might be Jewish, vandalizing the stores and merch, harassing employees and patrons, and most recently, threatening death to the police while covering their faces, literally like a terrorist. One video from a couple weeks back had a protester with the Israeli flag tied to their ankle, stomping and dragging the flag, before setting a dog on maul the flag. I'm not sure what more we are waiting to see ...

In contrast, the Freedom Convoy had smoggy trucks and loud horns (until the court order to stop the honking, and they promptly stopped the honking), they cleaned the streets and bagged up garbage at the end of day, they had jumpy castles and BBQs and dancing, and we arrested them and smashed them to the ground.

I was on the ground to experience a little bit of both these protests first hand. I want to empathize with the current protesters, but they really are coming off as thugs/terrorist, and it's getting out of hand. Where's the political will to set some reasonable boundaries and hold some people accountable? Their right to protest should not supersede our right to run businesses, or go about our day peacefully. Anyone have thoughts?
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#10522629 - 12/18/23 04:20 PM Re: Where are we at with the current protests? [Re: 4Three]
titty sprinkles Offline
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 17239
Loc: Toronto,Ontario
100% agree tbh. when they started to protest in a peaceful way ok no problem; i get that they may have family back home that have to deal with a war and they want it to stop.

at the same time, many countries have turmoil, and that shouldn't be a reason to effect the day to day here in a different country. i agree that it's getting out of hand too, packed bridges over the 401 just slowing down traffic, taking over stores, but my beef I had with it was that i saw one video when the protesters were at yorkdale and going off chanting etc when there were kids and parents right there trying to get their pictures with santa done. that to me is ridiculous
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#10522649 - 12/18/23 05:06 PM Re: Where are we at with the current protests? [Re: titty sprinkles]
Risky Business Offline
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Registered: 05/17/10
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I've seen some clips online, but clips alone with the lack of context I am not sure if I can draw any conclusion.

That being said, when I went to York U there were ongoing clashes back then between Israelis and Palestinians, this is like 15 years ago and they were bad back then, shut down lecture halls, you can't get through the schools, people screaming in your face even if you are just trying to get through. I can't imagine wtf it's like now.

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#10522866 - 12/19/23 11:27 AM Re: Where are we at with the current protests? [Re: Risky Business]
Big Tasty Offline
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Registered: 02/10/02
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Loc: Toronto
My day to day haven't been affected by the conflict personally so I don't have much fake outrage to give about the situation first hand. I do think that Isreal is going too far with the retaliation. It would be one thing to go surgically after Hamas to weed them out but destroying entire neighbourhoods and innocent people is going too far.
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#10522940 - 12/19/23 01:56 PM Re: Where are we at with the current protests? [Re: Big Tasty]
Simon_the_Pieman Offline
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Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 9474
Loc: The A
 Originally Posted By: Big Tasty
My day to day haven't been affected by the conflict personally so I don't have much fake outrage to give about the situation first hand. I do think that Isreal is going too far with the retaliation. It would be one thing to go surgically after Hamas to weed them out but destroying entire neighbourhoods and innocent people is going too far.


im sad for the innocent, truly. protests are also great. im for it, but being wreckless and endangering/damaging others is no bueno.

alas crises precipitate change. i feel it will get worse before it gets better.
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#10523401 - 12/20/23 11:08 AM Re: Where are we at with the current protests? [Re: Simon_the_Pieman]
4Three Offline
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Registered: 12/21/00
Posts: 5367
Loc: Markham, ON, Canada
As far as conflict goes, and I think this pertains to all types of conflict, I think it boils down to this: it's rare that you can successfully beat someone into a willing submission, unless you completely obliterate them. You might gain some compliance in short term if you come out on top, but in all likelihood, you've just created a greater resentment, because we're all affected by our ego and no one likes to lose. And so it becomes a cycle of conflict, and pause. To actually move out of that conflict cycle, both sides have to be empathetic to each other's cause, and then to find a space of compromise. Only then might you reach a long term peaceful resolution.

I think most of the civilians on both sides can probably appreciate this, and truly want peace. But then those in power can't let it go, so they drag everyone else into their crap.
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