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#6612582 - 09/26/12 05:59 PM Backsquats
137 Offline
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Registered: 12/06/02
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Loc: Newsomville, CA
GET SOME!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYjdS2ouf1Q&feature=share&list=UU6FEJ9oV1X3_lC64UGpxcEA
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#6612676 - 09/26/12 06:35 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: 137]
FireInTheWhole Offline
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Posts: 24294
Loc: Port Orange, FL
Lower.
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#6612706 - 09/26/12 06:58 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: FireInTheWhole]
137 Offline
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Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 41743
Loc: Newsomville, CA
 Originally Posted By: FireInTheWhole
Lower.


want to explain the effectiveness of ass to ankles? You hit a deadzone right under parallel and a whole different set of muscles comes in to play to get you right back into the group you used to do anything above *shrugs*

Rob has mobility problems in his left ankle he's working on, I noticed he is not hitting parallel on some of those heavier reps.


Edited by 137 (09/26/12 06:58 PM)
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#6612717 - 09/26/12 07:06 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: ]
Artvandelay
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That looks like a sweet gym
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#6612910 - 09/26/12 08:59 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: ]
Back 5 Offline
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Registered: 09/16/03
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Loc: CA
I've always felt like full squats were much better for the body versus parallel. Your knees take too much strain on a parallel squat. When you do a full squat your hamstrings fire at the bottom, which helps propel you upwards. Parallel squats will tend to overwork your quads and neglect your hamstrings.
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#6613044 - 09/26/12 10:22 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: Back 5]
DieZel Offline
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And all you guys screaming go lower, I bet none of you are as tall as that dude... Tall fucks typically just don't have that deep squatting in them... That's for you stubby fucks... ;\)
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#6613062 - 09/26/12 10:39 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: DieZel]
Back 5 Offline
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137 isn't that tall man.
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RIP Morgann 2004-2010. Enjoy Doggie Heaven \:\(
If at first you do succeed, try something harder.
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

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#6613091 - 09/26/12 11:03 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: Back 5]
Silock Moderator Offline
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Tall is like 6'4". Looks like you could go a lot lower.

I don't backsquat, though, so what the fuck do I know?

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#6613184 - 09/27/12 12:23 AM Re: Backsquats [Re: Silock]
137 Offline
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Registered: 12/06/02
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Loc: Newsomville, CA
I'm 5'8 Rob is 6'2 he gets pretty low for his size. He can lift a lot more but he's also squatting with heel spurs and that fucked up ankle. Just picked up orthodics for his feet today so that should be interesting to see how he adjusts.

He's my main workout partner because he lifts heavy and we have the same schedules roughly. Plus he's not afraid of listening to idea's for new workouts we normally don't do to strengthen area's he sucks at. Lots of joint problems on that guy. While I have no problem going ass to ankles on overhead squats, snatches, etc. I don't like doing them for heavy squats as mentioned. It's too easy to engage muscles you shouldn't be engaging.

Much less rolling forward on your toes to propel the weight back up.

BEEEEFY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=LI_v_Iz4CmY&NR=1


Edited by 137 (09/27/12 02:54 AM)
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#6613441 - 09/27/12 08:33 AM Re: Backsquats [Re: Back 5]
DieZel Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Back 5
137 isn't that tall man.


Wasn't referring to him...

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#6614385 - 09/27/12 02:37 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: Silock]
Maximus
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: Silock
Tall is like 6'4". Looks like you could go a lot lower.

I don't backsquat, though, so what the fuck do I know?
 Originally Posted By: Silock
Tall is like 6'4". Looks like you could go a lot lower.

I don't backsquat, though, so what the fuck do I know?


Why not?

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#6614673 - 09/27/12 04:52 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: ]
Silock Moderator Offline
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I can't do it any more. I have a PARS defect in my spine. One of my lower back vertebrae is essentially just cartilage on one side that never calcified into bone. It basically won't "hook" into the other vertebrae, which, under heavy loads, can shift all the weight forward and cause me to try to compensate for the lack of the spine's foundation with my lower back muscles. Not a good thing.

So, I can't do anything that puts a significant load on my back any longer. Instead of traditional back squats, I do Bulgarian barbell single leg squats. That way I can use about the same amount of weight per leg as I would on a traditional squat with only half the load on my lower back.

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#6614681 - 09/27/12 04:55 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: 137]
Silock Moderator Offline
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 Originally Posted By: 137
I don't like doing them for heavy squats as mentioned. It's too easy to engage muscles you shouldn't be engaging.

Much less rolling forward on your toes to propel the weight back up


I don't understand how this is an issue from the lowest squat depth. At that point, all the weight should be on the heels, and going back up is simply a matter of driving the power through them.

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#6615523 - 09/27/12 11:38 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: Silock]
137 Offline
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If doing squats were that easy I'd be lifting 600lbs
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#6615530 - 09/27/12 11:52 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: 137]
Silock Moderator Offline
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No, I just don't get it. There shouldn't be any inclination to lean forward while squatting. If there is, then there should be a form check and an examination of core strength.
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#6615542 - 09/28/12 12:10 AM Re: Backsquats [Re: Silock]
137 Offline
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Registered: 12/06/02
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 Originally Posted By: Silock
No, I just don't get it. There shouldn't be any inclination to lean forward while squatting. If there is, then there should be a form check and an examination of core strength.


I wouldn't be able to tell you the specifics, you're more than free to email bob takano at takanoathletics.com as he loves answering questions like this.
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#6615598 - 09/28/12 02:23 AM Re: Backsquats [Re: 137]
Rumbelstiltskin Offline
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Olympic vs powerlifting squats maybe?
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#6615640 - 09/28/12 05:44 AM Re: Backsquats [Re: Silock]
Artvandelay
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: Silock
No, I just don't get it. There shouldn't be any inclination to lean forward while squatting. If there is, then there should be a form check and an examination of core strength.

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#6615661 - 09/28/12 06:39 AM Re: Backsquats [Re: ]
Back 5 Offline
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Registered: 09/16/03
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137 is and always will be a cross-fit homer. Any trainer with a book published who writes positively about cross-fit can do no wrong.

We've had this discussion with him many times over full squats and other lifting techniques. His answer is always email so and so, he trained this and that person and knows more than anyone.

EDIT: Not trying to take away anything from the progress 137 is making though. He looks great compared to how he did last year.


Edited by Back 5 (09/28/12 06:40 AM)
_________________________
RIP Morgann 2004-2010. Enjoy Doggie Heaven \:\(
If at first you do succeed, try something harder.
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

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#6615682 - 09/28/12 07:00 AM Re: Backsquats [Re: Back 5]
137 Offline
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Registered: 12/06/02
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I've done backsquats like this my entire time in a gym since high school, I am not new to backsquatting and read books about what I'm doing wrong I also never make any posts about how I have knee pain, back pain, or joint pain like a lot of people on this forum do.

I am not an expert I am just a different person. This has nothing to do with crossfit, nor did anything in this post have to do with crossfit so I don't even understand why that was brought up?

Bob Takano is a United States Olympic Weight Lifting Coach like the real deal not all of you CSi'ers and your starting strength books who can point out what they feel is incorrect. I simply said I'm not the person to ask or justify why I don't hit my ass cheeks with my ankles nor did I say anyone told me what I'm doing is right.

What I'm doing is working for me, I'm at parallel and it's going back up, essentially that's how squatting works. If I want big hamstrings I'll do good mornings, sumos, straight legs, etc. If my core was an issue I wouldn't be squatting 330+ to begin with!

I don't know why everyone has to get into some spastic conversation on this forum about who's right and who's wrong like you get forum karma points for being correct in all of your postings.

I simply shared me doing some backsquats, I don't look like dogshit doing them, it's a fairly heavy weight.

What's the disconnect here CSi?


Edited by 137 (09/28/12 07:01 AM)
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#6616309 - 09/28/12 11:09 AM Re: Backsquats [Re: 137]
Silock Moderator Offline
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 Originally Posted By: 137
If my core was an issue I wouldn't be squatting 330+ to begin with!


Not at all trying to be a dick, but this isn't true. Your core strength must go up proportionally with the weight you're moving. So, your core strength may be just fine for a lower weight, but be inadequate for higher weight. This is where accessory work comes into play to fix the deficiencies so that the main lifts may continue to rise.

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#6616335 - 09/28/12 11:16 AM Re: Backsquats [Re: Silock]
DieZel Offline
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You're fighting a losing battle Wayne cause even if you were biomechanically limited in some fashion they'd still tell you you're wrong...

I'm sure everyone here could be nit picked on their form on nearly every exercise unless they are lifting weights that aren't heavy enough to promote progressive overload...

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#6617113 - 09/28/12 03:22 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: DieZel]
Silock Moderator Offline
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 Originally Posted By: DieZel
You're fighting a losing battle Wayne cause even if you were biomechanically limited in some fashion they'd still tell you you're wrong...

I'm sure everyone here could be nit picked on their form on nearly every exercise unless they are lifting weights that aren't heavy enough to promote progressive overload...


Biomechanics can usually be fixed, especially if it's a flexibility issue or core strength issue.

And I'm not personally picking on his form. I just still don't understand how anyone can want to lean on their toes more just because they go low on a squat. That seriously just sounds like a form issue, that again, can be easily fixed.

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#6617172 - 09/28/12 03:39 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: Silock]
DieZel Offline
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it's likely a flexibility issue, at least from my experience... flexibility can certainly be increased, but takes a long time...

i consider myself a generally flexible person, but when it comes to my hip flexors and getting down into a deep sqaut, my body is like "hey fuck off dick, i don't move like that"...

i could could attribute it to the 2 6" steel screws in my hips, but i'm pretty sure it's just tight hip flexors...

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#6617184 - 09/28/12 03:47 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: DieZel]
Silock Moderator Offline
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Most people also don't want to work on flexibility. I know I don't. It sucks. It's boring as shit. And for it to be effective, you have to do it many times per day.
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#6617268 - 09/28/12 04:43 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: Silock]
DieZel Offline
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yeah who has that kind of time...? \:D

since i've stopped doing cardio i've pretty much cut out 90% of the stretching i was doing afterwards...

still trying to get some rolling in a few times a week but even that has slacked off unless i feel i "need it"...

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#6617305 - 09/28/12 05:25 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: DieZel]
Artvandelay
Unregistered



137 - good stuff

Edited by Artvandelay (09/28/12 05:36 PM)

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#6617486 - 09/28/12 07:29 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: Silock]
137 Offline
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Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 41743
Loc: Newsomville, CA
 Originally Posted By: Silock
Most people also don't want to work on flexibility. I know I don't. It sucks. It's boring as shit. And for it to be effective, you have to do it many times per day.


Yeah my workout partner is all about this shit now.



Also did some front squats this morning. This is why I don't like going below parallel. You can say what you want about people not rolling forward, I can find plenty of video's where your weight will transfer to your toes and back to your heels to get out of the defecit/hole on below parallel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2uhg3F25ss&feature=share&list=UU6FEJ9oV1X3_lC64UGpxcEA


Edited by 137 (09/29/12 01:11 AM)
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#6618081 - 09/29/12 11:20 AM Re: Backsquats [Re: 137]
FireInTheWhole Offline
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Registered: 03/07/02
Posts: 24294
Loc: Port Orange, FL
 Originally Posted By: 137
 Originally Posted By: FireInTheWhole
Lower.


want to explain the effectiveness of ass to ankles? You hit a deadzone right under parallel and a whole different set of muscles comes in to play to get you right back into the group you used to do anything above *shrugs*

Rob has mobility problems in his left ankle he's working on, I noticed he is not hitting parallel on some of those heavier reps.


I was mostly kidding around - you know every time there is a squat vid someone has to say to go lower.

I do like to go a little lower though. I define parallel as the top of my leg being parallel while the ass and hammies are much lower.

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#6618285 - 09/29/12 02:31 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: FireInTheWhole]
137 Offline
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Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 41743
Loc: Newsomville, CA
<3
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#6618424 - 09/29/12 04:52 PM Re: Backsquats [Re: 137]
Silock Moderator Offline
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Registered: 01/23/00
Posts: 60326
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 Originally Posted By: 137
 Originally Posted By: Silock
Most people also don't want to work on flexibility. I know I don't. It sucks. It's boring as shit. And for it to be effective, you have to do it many times per day.


Yeah my workout partner is all about this shit now.



Also did some front squats this morning. This is why I don't like going below parallel. You can say what you want about people not rolling forward, I can find plenty of video's where your weight will transfer to your toes and back to your heels to get out of the defecit/hole on below parallel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2uhg3F25ss&feature=share&list=UU6FEJ9oV1X3_lC64UGpxcEA


That's why you are supposed to raise your ass first when coming out of the hole. It keeps everything driving through the hips and heels.

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#6618877 - 09/30/12 04:43 AM Re: Backsquats [Re: Silock]
137 Offline
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Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 41743
Loc: Newsomville, CA
 Originally Posted By: Silock

That's why you are supposed to raise your ass first when coming out of the hole. It keeps everything driving through the hips and heels.


Look bud, I know how to do them. Plain and simple I don't like to do them, no need to throw every excuse in the world at csi the weight would go up either way ass to ankles, pause at my knee's I feel safer mentally knowing I have room to ditch then to get stuck in a hole with 300+ on my back without a spotter again. Last time it wasn't so pleasant and I was able to explode just enough to behind the neck jerk-ditch it.

And I know you don't squat so I can personally tell you getting propelled to the floor against 300lbs when throwing it off of you really hurts ones tailbone.
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#6618994 - 09/30/12 09:34 AM Re: Backsquats [Re: 137]
Silock Moderator Offline
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Registered: 01/23/00
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It's not like I haven't done heavy back squats before. I just can't do them now.

Again, I'm not trying to make you out to be an idiot for not doing them lower. I'm just trying to understand how it isn't a form/core strength issue for people to want to roll forward just because they go past parallel.

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#6619045 - 09/30/12 10:29 AM Re: Backsquats [Re: Silock]
Artvandelay
Unregistered



 Quote:
I'm just trying to understand how it isn't a form/core strength issue for people to want to roll forward just because they go past parallel.
it is.

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#6619070 - 09/30/12 10:47 AM Re: Backsquats [Re: ]
FireInTheWhole Offline
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Registered: 03/07/02
Posts: 24294
Loc: Port Orange, FL
I sometimes tend to roll onto my toes a bit when going heavy. In my case it isn't my core strength, it is that I feel like I don't have the power in my ass to get out of the hole and I get a little scared. LOL. I'm a pussy now and super cautious because of my disc issues. When this starts happening I know to take some weight off the bar.
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