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#107973 - 08/01/05 11:42 AM The New FAQ for boosted hondas / acuras (8/01/2005)
Mad Hungarian? Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/23/00
Posts: 13053
Loc: NE OH
Since SiAdam did such a wonderful job of creating an even better FAQ I felt the need to create a sticky for the information that he provided. Please check this FAQ as well as the other one before posting questions that have been covered several times. If you don't find an answer in either faq thread please feel free to post it so we can possibly add an update to the threads.

Thank You,

Management

Now onto SiAdam's masterpiece ;\)


I have been in the process of collecting all the information that we always are looking for, into one page......or several for sake of arguement...

I know this list isn't all inclusive as of yet, but hopefully with your help, it can be.

On to the information you may be searching for

Your Goals

1. First things first, decide what goals you have for yourself and your car. What do you expect?
2. Do you want a street/strip weekend warrior, a quicker daily driver, or an all out race car?
3. With that said, any time you modify a vehicle expect some headaches along the way. If you don't have the extra TIME & MONEY to do it correctly, please save yourself, your car and your bank account the trouble and don't do it at all.
4. Where do you want your power to come from? Nitrous, Supercharger or a Turbocharger. Nitrous is not covered in this article, but can be found here . A supercharger usually consists of a kit that comes with what you need, although it will still need tuned. Lastly a Turbocharger, in which case you are in the right place, so please carry on.

These are all important questions you need to answer.




**Some Common Questions about Boost.

Q: What is better, a turbo or a s/c ?
A: Neither. One may fit your budget, lifestyle or goals better.

Q: Vortech or JRSC?
A: Again back to your goals and budget. If you are looking for something with a bit more potential and power, Vortech(read: added cost). If you are looking for more pep from your daily driver, choose JRSC. (to make either last and run reliable, they WILL NEED TUNED, NO EXCEPTIONS.....

Q: Tuning seems expensive, what are my options?
A: If this is you, SERIOUSLY reconsider modifying your vehicle. Tuning is the SINGLE most important item and should therefore be given the most amount of thought/$$.

Q: How many miles/km is safe?
A: The amount of miles/km is not whats important, but the "health" of your motor. Do a compression check/leakdown test and compare your numbers to the stock numbers to show the "health" of your motor. Low numbers will indicate a teardown/rebuild is HIGHLY recommended.

Q: Is a turbo/sc hard on my car ?
A: In a nutshell, definate maybe. Being "hard" on your motor is relative to how you treat your car and the quality of the tune. Anytime you modify a vehicle you are taking risks.




Turbo Shopping List for D & B Series Honda Motors.u]


[u]Tuning
(street, dyno)
This item is usually the last to be considered. When actually it needs to be the FIRST. Know before you even purchase any parts where you plan to dyno your vehicle and how much they charge so you can budget accordingly. You can pay someone with a dyno and experience to tune your car, or you can do it yourself. I recommend at the very least trying to street tune it yourself, if you are familiar with the nuances of tuning,timing and a/f ratio's. For peak whp and ignition tuning, a dyno is still required.

1. you will need a wideband 02 sensor. (found anywhere for $300, I use the Plx M-300, great start)
2. also a boost guage (autometer $50)
3. uberdata/crome offers everything you need to tune your car, including datalogging, if you so desire.(more or less free)
4. you need a way of communicating with the ecu via your computer.
you can either buy a chip burner for ~$50 or the Moates.net Ostritch for $170 (recomended)


Stand-Alone (Neptune, Crome, UberData, Hondata, all require what is listed, and will allow you to make the adjustments necesarry to reliably turbocharge your honda/acura)
1. OBDI ecu, usually a P28 (found online for under $100)
2. Socketing kit for the ecu. (can be sent out and chipped for under $50)
3. Wiring Adapter if needed to convert from ObdII --> ObdI (found online for under $100)
4. Peak and hold Injectors or Saturated Injectors (depending on size, can be found online for $250-$350). Peak and hold reccomended because of faster response, requires a resistor to be wired into the ground wire coming off of the injector.
5.Fuel Pump (walbro 255lph for 100shipped with install kit)
6. Spark plugs - you need colder spark plugs, most of us use NGK BKR7E plugs (2.00 a piece at any local parts store)
7. Depending on the amount of boost and power levels you are looking for you will need to swap your map sensor. A Honda map is good for ~11psi. Anything above that we recommend the Gm or Msd 3bar map w/pigtail. With this sensor you will be good for ~ 28lbs.
*Exception is AEM. It is a true standalone and does not require the factory Honda ecu. It can be ordered for to fit your vehicle.

PiggyBack (will only let you adjust fuel, very rough adjustments, cannot change timing)---this crap is not even worth covering in this faq.
1. Vafc (apexi) (allows you to add fuel adjustments and control the vtec engagement point)
2. Missing Link (check valve that fools the map sensor from seeing boost)
3. FMU (it connects to your intake manifold via a vacumn line. when it reads boost it will add extra fuel, more fuel for more boost. It is very crude, obviously it makes no timing adjustemnts.)
**Why none of these items are recomended


Fuel and Spark Control
You first need to be able to not only add more fuel, but control how much fuel you add. In the process of making more power, it is important to change when the spark plugs fire. Often with boosting, timing will need to be retarded (spark plug fires later than normal) because the compressed air will burn faster than the normal air. This is why PROPER tuning is so important.
SPARK PLUGS recommended for 88-00 Boosted Honda Civics
NGK BKR7E

Approximate injector sizing for a boosted B16A2
Flywheel(hp) --- Target(cc) HP Injectors needed at 40psi fuel pressure
160hp -------------- 240cc (stock)
280hp -------------- 440cc or higher
350hp -------------- 550cc or higher
460hp -------------- 720cc or higher
500hp -------------- 1000cc or higher

High Impedence aka saturated (oem like)
Low Impedence aka peak & hold (resistor box needed)


Turbo (turbo size controls when power comes on and when it dies off, and how much power comes on when it does)
1. Ball Bearing (garret) (found online for 1000+)
2. Journal Bearing (garret, precision) (found online from 500+)

-Turbo Gasket Set (check to make sure it comes with turbo)


WasteGate used to regulate pressure in the intake manifold (how much boost you run).
-Internal
1. Comes with Turbo (if used), check for crack around wastegate port & flapper seals)

-External (Tial 38mm, fine for most apps, TurboSmart for low profile apps.) (found online for $225)
1. Spring Size (aim for 6-12psi, depending on goals)
2. Flange (should come with wastegate)
3. Gasket (should come with wastegate)
4. Dump Tube , why having a proper one is important.


Boost Controller
-Electronic Boost Controller (Too many to list)
(found online for 50-500)
-Manual Boost Controller (DIY, Halman)
(found for as little as $5)


Turbo Manifold
-Log (some cast manifolds blox, inlinepro,BMC racing or HF manifold plus BMC adapter for D series
Neukin, Revhard as well as through a number of vendors on honda-tech) (found online for 200-300)
-Tubular (found through a number of honda-tech vendors for 600-1300)


Exhaust
- 2.5-3."¨ Down pipe (Has to be purchased, then fitted to your car by a local shop. Can be found online for $200-$400)

- 2.5-3" exhaust. Can be custom, kteller, thermal, whatever. Try and save money here.


Gauges (even if your not tuning by youself) (no specfic order)
1. Boost (Defi, AutoMeter, Greddy) (go autometer, 50 a piece)
2. Oil Pressure (Defi, AutoMeter, Greddy) (price is the only factor)
3. Wideband (anything but Zeitronix due to problems with free software. $300)
4. EGT is nice (100)


Oil Lines & Fittings
-Fittings, Oil Feed, Oil Return (from any speed shop, will be cash. Honda-tech sponsers forum for $100)


Intercooler
-Intercooler (custom, precision, Johnny racecar) (found on ebay for $200)

-Intercooler Piping (steel, aluminum, SS)
1. Couplers (arpturbo.com) ($$$)
2. Clamps
1. Worm Clamps (local auto part store)
2, T Bolt (online) ($$$)


Bov
-Bov (What sounds good?) (150-200)
-Flange comes with new BOV


ValveTrain (if you want to extend your rev limit)
-Cams (Type R/CTR, GSR) (150-300)
1. Cam Gears (skunk2, AEM, GE) (100-200)

-Valve Springs (Skunk 2, SuperTech) (whole head package usually found for 500 minus cams)
-Retainers (Skunk2, SuperTech)
-Valves (Supertech)


Intake Manifold (Allows air to enter the engine more efficiently. This means more power on less boost, safer for your motor)
-Intake Manifold (Edlebrock) ($300)
-Throttle Body (BBK) ($200)
-Intake Manifold Gasket (Hondata, OEM) ($40)


Engine
-HeadStuds (ARP) (100-150)
-Pistons (CP, JE, Weisco, Suziki Vitara) (500)
-Rods (Eagle-450whp limit, Crower, Manley, Pauters) (300)
-Bearings (OEM, ACL) (100)
-Oil Pan (Moroso) (150)
-HeadGasket (OEM) (100)
-Sleeves (Beenson) (1000)
-Gasket Set (OEM) (???)
-Motor Mount Inserts (Energy Suspension) (30)


Transmission
-Clutch (CM Stage 3+, ACT 6 puck) (300)
-Lsd (Quaiffe) (800)


Suspension Mods (You will need to be able to get this new found power to the ground.)
-Traction Bars (1320 Custom Fab) (300)
-Springs/Shocks (Ground Control Coilover sleeves+high quality shocks. 800)


Tires
-stickier tires (Bfg, Azenis) (100 a pop)


Misc. (I recommend planning on ~$500 bucks for misc parts. This will come in handy later. )
1. Vacuum Lines
2. Vacuum Manifold
3. Oil Change (10w30)
4. Oil Filter
5. Magnetic Drain Plug
6. Tie Wraps
7. Duct Tape
8. Coolant Flush
9. Brake upgrade
10. Turbo Timer
11. Misc Flanges (RoadRaceEngineering.com)
12. Copper Spray can be substitued for gaskets if needed.
13. Catch Cans - Endyn, Moroso (get the one with two -10 AN outlets)



**Stock Blocks & Boost.

If you are wanting to boost your stock B or D series engine there are a few things you need to know. IF THE TIMING IS PROPERLY SET, and the afr are ok.
1. D series are good for ~220whp on stock internals
2. B series are good for ~300whp on stock internals.

Both assuming you have the proper tuning and engine management.



**Adding a Non-Aftermarket Turbo.

step 1: ask any manifold maker (check honda-tech fab forum) to make you a log manifold with the proper inlet turbo flange for your Dsm, Sti, etc...turbo.

step 2: purchase said turbo and manifold

step 3: you may have to ship the turbo and manifold (or just the turbo to the manifold maker) so a fabricator can attach the parts to a dummy block and mock up a downpipe that will fit properly. purchase this downpipe, if you don't have a fabricator in your area.

step 4: go to a local muffler shop and have them weld an exhaust flange onto the back of the downpipe so that it mates up to your existing exhaust. Or if the fabricator lives near you he may be able to do this for you. muffler shop will work fine.

step 5: read the faq, everything else you need is on here. If not, then you may post an intelligent question in the forums....





---------------------------------------------
Great sites with useful info.

www.honda-tech.com
www.homemadeturbo.com
www.clubsi.com
www.turbod16.com
www.pgmi.org
Honda-Tech's very own turbo FAQ
Informative Write up On Turbo Components from Bees & Goats

---------------------------------------------



Shorthand Guide to Turbocharging Your Stock Honda:
Crome/UberData to tune
1. P28 ($100)
2. Socketing ($50)
3. Wiring Adapter ($100)
4. Peak and hold Injectors$275)
5. Fuel Pump ($100)
6. Spark plugs ($10)
7. wideband 02 ($300)
8. gauges ($100)
9. Ostritch for Tuning ($170)
10.Boost Controller ($150)


Garrett T3/t4 turbo with simple cast manifold
1. t3/t4 .63ar 57trim ($550)
2. Tial 38mm ($250)


1. Blox/Inlinepro Manifold ($300)
2. 3" downpipe ($200)
3. 3" exhaust ($300)


OBX or JRC intercooler w/ custom or ebay piping
1. Intercooler ($200)
2. Charge Pipes ($200)
3. BOV ($150)


Sprung 6-puck clutch
1. Clutch ($300)


Misc
1. Thicker headgasket ($100)
2. ARP headstuds ($200)
3. G.C. Springs/Shocks ($800)
4. Oil and stuff($150)

All that adds up to ~5k. Just the fuel/spark, and a way to plumb the turbo into your
intake/exhaust and your looking at around ~3k in parts. This is all new.

With used parts you can piece together a kit for under ~2k, and sometimes with poor
quality parts (read beat up) you can get everything for under ~$1500.

Those prices include a lot of time and patience, you must learn to do the work yourself.


2.5" vs 3" Exhaust.

Greddy Install PDF ( Right Click Save as: )

Clicking your Turbo



**If any of the items seem unreasonable or to expensive, you can always check here for other options...
Cost Saving Performance

**DIY Turbo Rebuild.

** Factory Fogs + Intercooler Piping How To.




Tips when working on your car and how to stay organized.

Great DIY on How to TurboCharge your Honda

Boost Leak Tester

Performing a Leakdown Test.

VTEC Animation

How an Engine runs Animation

How A Turbo Works

Gear Calculator

**WHY NOT TO BUY SSSAutocrome/XS Power eBay kits Clicky.

**Why tuning is sooo IMPORTANT!!
http://forums.clubsi.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2425587





**Special Thanks for Helping w/this great article.
Csabah - Mad Hungarian.
Shane - baellremoteuse
Justin - MastrCobb
& the rest of the Got Boost Crew.

(more to be added as they pitch in)


**Disclaimer:
ClubSi nor its members, Site Admins, Moderators or otherwise, claim any responsibility for you or damage to your vehicle by following the articles stated in this forum. Please follow and attempt at your OWN RISK. All automotive repair and upgrades should be done with proper safety equipment under the supervision of a professional. By clicking on and following the above links you agree to the said terms and wherein remove all responsibility from ClubSi and its participants.



Edited by SiAdam (06/09/08 09:15 AM)

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#107974 - 08/01/05 11:51 AM Re: The New FAQ for boosted hondas / acuras (8/01/2005)
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
Thanks Csabah.

I can't take credit for all of it. Without everyones help in the past, I wouldn't know half as much as I do today.

Thanks Got Boost.

Just trying to give back what I have gotten.

_________________________
05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#107975 - 08/01/05 07:58 PM Re: The New FAQ for boosted hondas / acuras (8/01/2005)
cua0 Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 17270
Loc: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
another great faq
http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html
_________________________

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#107976 - 08/02/05 11:20 PM Re: The New FAQ for boosted hondas / acuras (8/01/2005)
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
If you have a question or see something that may need to be added/modified to the FAQ, please PM a mod.

Thanks.

_________________________
05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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