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#94342 - 06/02/05 12:39 AM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
CivicVTi Offline
Sr Member


Registered: 12/02/99
Posts: 1176
Loc: Athens , Greece
A stock b18a with a b16 tranny would be a very bad combination. You would shift too early (eg: from 2nd to 3rd gear at 50mph) cause the b18a cannot rev that high. Remember the b16 has a very wide powerband and this is its strength (the strenght of every vtec engine especially dohc). Would you prefer a 150ftlb torque car that revs up to 5000rpm or a b16? For street racing, the b16 with the proper gearing would be soooo much faster!
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Honda Civic VTi '95 EG6 hatch (stock B16A2) B18C6 specR swap (Euro)

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#94343 - 06/02/05 12:57 AM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
Relix Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 16256
Loc: 640 acres of desert
Quote:

A stock b18a with a b16 tranny would be a very bad combination. You would shift too early (eg: from 2nd to 3rd gear at 50mph) cause the b18a cannot rev that high. Remember the b16 has a very wide powerband and this is its strength (the strenght of every vtec engine especially dohc). Would you prefer a 150ftlb torque car that revs up to 5000rpm or a b16? For street racing, the b16 with the proper gearing would be soooo much faster!





5000rpms?!?! what engine are you talking about? Last time I check the redline in a b18b was 7200 rpms, but lets say you shift the b18b at 6500 rpms and dropped 2200rpms shifting into the next gear, you be nailing your peak torque of 118 and having about 100whp



Where as the b16a shifting at 7500rpms and loosing the same 2200 rpms ... It would be grabbing the next gear with the same 100whp but only about 101wft/lbs of torque.....


So in my opinion grabbing the next gear with an extra 17 foot pounds of torque would give the b18b a huge atvantage over the b16a
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#94344 - 06/02/05 05:12 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Only problem with that is, in a race situation, it would be pointless to shift before peak HP. Your scenario works but then its not objective. Lets have both motors shifting right before rev. limiter (race scenario), then see what the results are like. Give it up man, I have never seen a B18 beat a B16 without some serious work.
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#94345 - 06/02/05 05:52 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
cruzersi99 Offline
Post Master


Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 2513
That's an excellent point that you make.

By shifting below the revlimit you may drop back down into peak or before peak but you lose out on the gearing advantage of the lower gear.
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#94346 - 06/03/05 04:56 AM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
CivicVTi Offline
Sr Member


Registered: 12/02/99
Posts: 1176
Loc: Athens , Greece
Quote:

5000rpms?!?! what engine are you talking about? Last time I check the redline in a b18b was 7200 rpms, but lets say you shift the b18b at 6500 rpms and dropped 2200rpms shifting into the next gear, you be nailing your peak torque of 118 and having about 100whp




I was just referrin to a hypothetical engine and not the b18b. Your hypothesis is wrong however. Let's say you shift 500rpm after peak power (which is optimum or near optimum). That would be 7000rpm with the b18b and 8100rpm with b16a. Let's say you shift from 2nd to 3rd. The b18b would drop to 4700rpm (given its gearing) while the b16a would drop to 5600rpm. The b18b, according to your graph has 102-103whp at 4700rpm while the b16 has more than 110whp at 5600rpm. It is wrong to compare torque at that levels without thinking that the b16's 3rd is shorter than b18's 3rd.

You have two options:
1. Compare torque figures but adjust them according to gearing
2. Simply compare HP and see who wins

The gearbox is a torque multiplier. The b18b has a final drive ratio of 4.266x1.269 at 3rd gear (total: 5.41) which means that its torque is multiplied by a factor of 8.1 (total torque to the wheels is thus 5.41 x 118lbft = 638.38 lb ft)

The b16 multiplies torque at 3rd gear by 4.4 x 1.458 = 6.41 which means that its torque there (around 102lbft at 5600rpm) is finally transfered as 653.82lb ft at the wheels.

Things are much easier if you just compare HP at any given instance during a race. The b16 is always stronger except with 1st gear and before vtec (which is alleviated by launcing with some wheel spin).
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Honda Civic VTi '95 EG6 hatch (stock B16A2) B18C6 specR swap (Euro)

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#94347 - 06/03/05 02:54 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
mintgecko Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 526
Loc: canada
Everyone is over thinking this, gear ratio makes a difference with an engine yes.

But the reason that honda motors make good power is not the displacement, 1.6 and 1.8 are nothing to brag about, and even though one has more torque then the other, it doesn't mean much.

The way honda makes power is through rpm, and that is final.

The reason vtec motors make more power in general is the ability to rev high.

try it yourself, hp = torque x rpm / 5252

B16a wins, stop the argument.

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#94348 - 06/24/05 08:31 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
blueSIguy Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 3950
Loc: NE
Sell the b18a, buy a b18c and have the best of both worlds. Then you can sell your b16 when you pull it and put that toward the laundry list of parts you showed us.
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