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#94307 - 05/27/05 11:00 PM B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
Vazquez27 Offline
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Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 143
Loc: Boston MA,
Ok, i got my hands a on b18a1 long block ecu tranny and even drive shafts for free. Im trying to figrue out how much more hp and tq the b18a1 has over my b16a1 how much does a stock b16a1 put out in power compared to a b18a1 stock. i also want to pump up the cp ratio how high can i up the cp ratio on 93 octane ? 11.1 or 12 ? the b18 block is going for a full rebuild pistons rods and probbally stock crank. and of course im going to slap the b16 head with a good amount of work well full head job i want to be done by summer of 06. need as much feed back as to what type pistons i need to get to where i want to be 11.1 or 12.1 all feed back welcome thank you
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#94308 - 05/28/05 02:48 AM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
strsi Offline
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Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
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uh, a stock b18a has less power then a stock b16, not more. 130hp for a b18a & 160-167hp for a b16a depending on which one u have.

so if ur converting to an lsvtec on 93 octane a good piston set to use would be usdm b16 pistons for ~11.3:1 CR or jdm b16 pistons for ~11.5:1 CR. CTR pistons would give u ~12:1 CR, but that's prob a little high. Or you could look into forged aftermarket pistons.

stock crank u said u'd prob use. i hope ur going to have it balanced at least.
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1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

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#94309 - 05/28/05 08:37 AM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
Vazquez27 Offline
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Registered: 05/10/04
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Loc: Boston MA,
Hm if the b18a1 has less power than my b16a1 then im starting to think its not worth putting money into maybe ill look for a better block
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#94310 - 05/28/05 08:49 AM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
Vazquez27 Offline
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Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 143
Loc: Boston MA,
Or should i just by a b16a1 short block and just buy a stroker kit to bump up the compression. that way i dont have to drill a new vtec line and and tap in a new knock senser.
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#94311 - 05/28/05 08:53 AM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
Relix Offline
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When I get home from work, I'll post the picture of a b16 dyno with a b18a/b dyno and you'll see a b18a/b makes more power then a b16 untill after the b18a/b stops, the 18a/b makes more toqure then the b16 makes....
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1977 fj40 stock
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#94312 - 05/28/05 10:29 AM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
b6ixteen Offline
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Registered: 12/29/04
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B16 vs B18 = B16 wins. And you can run up to 13:1 on 93 octane < (waiting on JoeB16's rebuttal) wouldn't recommend it but I have seen it.
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#94313 - 05/28/05 12:07 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
cruzersi99 Offline
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Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 2513
You guys are answering his question, but you are answering his question in segments.

If we are talking power let's tallk about torque first. The B18 has more torque than the b16 in most of the rpm range (as stated above). Unfortunately, you can't rev a B18 as high as a b16.

When we start talking about revs, that's when HP comes into play. HP = RPM * Torque. The b16 produces more HP then a B18 because it can rev much higher.

Area under the curve between a b18 and a b16 over the entire rev range for each engine is probably pretty close. Maybe there is a slight edge for a b16. In an actual straight line race, where each driver is equal the b16 will probably win, however, just putting around town the b18 is considered to be much easier to drive.

Additionally, the trannies on each motor are different. A b18 with an ITR tranny, even a USDM one, is actually pretty fun to drive.

With the right amount of money any motor can be made fast and reliable when done right. It's all preference really.
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#94314 - 05/28/05 03:29 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
strsi Offline
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Registered: 10/26/04
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Loc: CA
Here is a b16 vs b18a dyno






If u have a b16 & 18 then why not just do an lsvtec now, instead of swaping in the whole b18a & then doing lsvtec later? U can put ur b16's pistons into the ls block & have a good setup with a few other things done to the block.

A straight b18a can be a fun motor though if u use an si or type r tranny. but i wouldnt trade a b16 for a b18a. just do lsvtec & get the best of both.
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1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

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#94315 - 05/28/05 05:37 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
b6ixteen Offline
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Registered: 12/29/04
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Loc: Florida
Yeah combine them both and get the B18 torque + displacement and the B16 high rev + VTEC.
And there is really no probably about the B16 vs B18 in a straight line race.

strsi, were those motors stock? cause that graph looks exactly like mine, with I/H.

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#94316 - 05/28/05 07:26 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
Relix Offline
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Quote:

B16 vs B18 = B16 wins. And you can run up to 13:1 on 93 octane < (waiting on JoeB16's rebuttal) wouldn't recommend it but I have seen it.


anything you can do in a b16 you can do with a b18 but better with more hp and tq
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#94317 - 05/28/05 07:34 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
Relix Offline
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Registered: 07/10/03
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Quote:

Yeah combine them both and get the B18 torque + displacement and the B16 high rev + VTEC.



Dude, the reason the b16 can rev higher then the b18 is the stroke not because of the head

B16 stroke = 77mm
b18a/b - 89mm

Slapping a b16 head on an LS engine and reving it up above the LS's red line is a very bad idea.....

There are a few things you need to do to increase the revving ability of a LS bottom end in order to make it safe, like swaping out either an ITR or GSR water and oil pump(LS oil pumps perform poorly above 7400rpms.... Also with the longer stroke 89mm your piston speeds will be increased alot adding alot of stress on the rodbolts so swapping them out for ARP bolts would be a good idea...

Stock for stock in the same car a LS engined car would kick the hell out of a b16a cars ass...
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Don't feed the troll BigAl or Albundy or Alfonso

1976 Fj55 landcruiser, 39" krawlers, front and rear lockers, on board air compressor , 16 speed transmission

1977 fj40 stock
1987 fj60 locked front and rear 33" tires

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#94318 - 05/28/05 07:37 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
Vazquez27 Offline
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Registered: 05/10/04
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Loc: Boston MA,
Ok i got one part solved i can run a b18 with the compression at 13.1 on 93 gas . but i plan on doing alot of work full fuel upgrade rails the whole nine yards head work full port and polish full angle vavle job. cams new timing belt vavle springs retainers all of it . im lookiong at a vemon intake manifold. bigger throttle body I dont really want to bother with taking parts off the b16 block like pistons. im going to buy new pistons and rods i dont think the b16 pistons wont get my compression as high as i want it so ill just get new forged pistons in stead so now im going to even get a new crank might as well do it right the first time. but i got plenty of time like i said i want for summer of 06 the btu i want to make sure im heading in the right direction before i start tearing aprt the b18 and sending it out to be cleaned up but i am planing on keeping the si tranny which means im going to get a lsd and have a tranny for sale . let me know what you guys think if i got a good plan going or does something need to be changed and thanks for all the input good info so far really good info
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#94319 - 05/28/05 07:41 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
Vazquez27 Offline
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Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 143
Loc: Boston MA,
Quote:

Quote:

Yeah combine them both and get the B18 torque + displacement and the B16 high rev + VTEC.



Dude, the reason the b16 can rev higher then the b18 is the stroke not because of the head

B16 stroke = 77mm
b18a/b - 89mm

Slapping a b16 head on an LS engine and reving it up above the LS's red line is a very bad idea.....

There are a few things you need to do to increase the revving ability of a LS bottom end in order to make it safe, like swaping out either an ITR or GSR water and oil pump(LS oil pumps perform poorly above 7400rpms.... Also with the longer stroke 89mm your piston speeds will be increased alot adding alot of stress on the rodbolts so swapping them out for ARP bolts would be a good idea...

Stock for stock in the same car a LS engined car would kick the hell out of a b16a cars ass...


so i need to upgrade the oil pump and water pump in order to rev higher ? im looking for really high revs like 9 k or even 10 k
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#94320 - 05/28/05 08:07 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
Relix Offline
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Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 16256
Loc: 640 acres of desert
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Yeah combine them both and get the B18 torque + displacement and the B16 high rev + VTEC.



Dude, the reason the b16 can rev higher then the b18 is the stroke not because of the head

B16 stroke = 77mm
b18a/b - 89mm

Slapping a b16 head on an LS engine and reving it up above the LS's red line is a very bad idea.....

There are a few things you need to do to increase the revving ability of a LS bottom end in order to make it safe, like swaping out either an ITR or GSR water and oil pump(LS oil pumps perform poorly above 7400rpms.... Also with the longer stroke 89mm your piston speeds will be increased alot adding alot of stress on the rodbolts so swapping them out for ARP bolts would be a good idea...

Stock for stock in the same car a LS engined car would kick the hell out of a b16a cars ass...


so i need to upgrade the oil pump and water pump in order to rev higher ? im looking for really high revs like 9 k or even 10 k




If your looking for rev's then a b16 is the way togo, the short stroke is very helpful in that area....But remeber if you have everything set up for high revs, like big cams and what not, it's going to make for a very annoying engine to be driving on the street...Big cams that make power in the higher rpm band like above 9K are dogs down low...
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Don't feed the troll BigAl or Albundy or Alfonso

1976 Fj55 landcruiser, 39" krawlers, front and rear lockers, on board air compressor , 16 speed transmission

1977 fj40 stock
1987 fj60 locked front and rear 33" tires

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#94321 - 05/29/05 02:48 AM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
strsi Offline
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Registered: 10/26/04
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Loc: CA
Quote:


strsi, were those motors stock? cause that graph looks exactly like mine, with I/H.



theyre susposed to be. dont worry if ur's looks the same, every dyno reads differently.



I'm not sure why u''d want to rev to 9-10k. Just so u can sound cool or something. But if thats what u want then get a b16 cuz u'll destroy an lsvtec much quicker then a b16 if u continuously rev that high.
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2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

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#94322 - 05/29/05 10:06 AM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
b6ixteen Offline
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Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Quote:

Quote:

Yeah combine them both and get the B18 torque + displacement and the B16 high rev + VTEC.



Dude, the reason the b16 can rev higher then the b18 is the stroke not because of the head

B16 stroke = 77mm
b18a/b - 89mm


I know its not because of the head. But LS/VTEC done the right way rev to 8000 and higher.
Quote:

Stock for stock in the same car a LS engined car would kick the hell out of a b16a cars ass...


Ok , I guess the dyno showing over 15whp difference means nothing.

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#94323 - 05/29/05 10:15 AM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
Relix Offline
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Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 16256
Loc: 640 acres of desert
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Yeah combine them both and get the B18 torque + displacement and the B16 high rev + VTEC.



Dude, the reason the b16 can rev higher then the b18 is the stroke not because of the head

B16 stroke = 77mm
b18a/b - 89mm


I know its not because of the head. But LS/VTEC done the right way rev to 8000 and higher.
Quote:

Stock for stock in the same car a LS engined car would kick the hell out of a b16a cars ass...


Ok , I guess the dyno showing over 15whp difference means nothing.


I'd take the 18 wtq over 15whp anyday
_________________________
Don't feed the troll BigAl or Albundy or Alfonso

1976 Fj55 landcruiser, 39" krawlers, front and rear lockers, on board air compressor , 16 speed transmission

1977 fj40 stock
1987 fj60 locked front and rear 33" tires

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#94324 - 05/29/05 10:43 AM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
Vazquez27 Offline
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Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 143
Loc: Boston MA,
Quote:

Quote:


strsi, were those motors stock? cause that graph looks exactly like mine, with I/H.



theyre susposed to be. dont worry if ur's looks the same, every dyno reads differently.



I'm not sure why u''d want to rev to 9-10k. Just so u can sound cool or something. But if thats what u want then get a b16 cuz u'll destroy an lsvtec much quicker then a b16 if u continuously rev that high.


Im looking to do somethng wild thats why im going to fully build it bottom up even if i dont get to go to 10k or 9k id be happy with 85k i just want something diff from turbo would be nice for all motor monster to take out a a honda with a turbo or even maybe a stock s2k or atleast to stay on its ass long enough to smell the exaust gases to let em know i got no dog.
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#94325 - 05/30/05 02:27 AM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
strsi Offline
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Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
ok, but the thing is revs dont mean much. generally speaking the larger the motor the sooner it will make peak power.
For example I have a b16 that is making peak at 8600 right now. If I kept everying the same (cams, CR, bolt-ons....) except swaped my block for an ls, then I'd probably peak at around 8000.

So if u want to rev to 9-10k then a b16 is best cuz it will peak higher & it can handle higher revs. Yea, u could build an ls block to handle high revs, but why would u want to rev it that high. Power is just dying once u pass peak & if u keep reving way past then power will start droping off quickly. The only way ur gonna have an lsvtec peaking around 9k is if u put some serious cams in there, Im talking not streetable at all.

& FYI 13:1 CR is probably a little high for 93 octane. I believe Brokenlimits was running 12.5:1 on 93 & he had to pull out so much timing that it wasn't worth it.
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2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

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#94326 - 05/30/05 04:42 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
mintgecko Offline
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Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 526
Loc: canada
I am going to put my poinion here and i know like always everyone is going to make a big fuss cause their way is better.

B16a can rev higher becuase of it's rod to stroke ratio and stroke.
The b16a does not have a block guard becuase of this, and does not stress the bottom end in high rpm and lives in the high rpms.

A fully build gsr and sir, keeping the rod/stroke ratio means the sir will rev much higher.

This motor is good for drag cause it may not have the best low end torque but when you are drag racing your need the torque off the line, the rest are roughly 6800-8000 and needs hp. These motors are very good when matched with a super, turbo or nitrous.

The b18 makes more low end torque and is faster off the line but will not have as much hp in the high end or rev as high.

Honda did not make a type r for drag racing they made if for track racing where there is a lot of turns where stopping and going are what you need torque for, to get going, a b16a will not perform as good here.

Stock for stock a gsr has the displacement and has a advantage in a street car cause of the torque.

But a bored out b16a will gain what is lost from the displacement , gain torque and benefit even more with the high hp, high reving

The debate is low end torque or high reving hp.

You choose.

As for a ls motor vs sir motor, there is no comparison, vtec all the way.

But from my experiences cars prefer to stretch the gears and like the high revs over the low end torque.

were racing not towing, hp all the way.

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#94327 - 05/30/05 05:27 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
Relix Offline
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Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 16256
Loc: 640 acres of desert
Mintgecko,

Are you saying a b16 with an 84mm bore will have the same amount of torque as a GSR motor or an LS/GS engine?

I was under the impression that those engines had more torque becuase they had a longer stroke.... A longer stroke it like having a longer breaker bar, meaning if i pushed down on a 1 foot breaker bar with 50 pounds of force I would make 50ft/lbs or turque, but if I had a 3 foot bar and pushed on it with 50 pounds of force i would produce 150ft/lbs or torque..

Please tell me where I am wrong here
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Don't feed the troll BigAl or Albundy or Alfonso

1976 Fj55 landcruiser, 39" krawlers, front and rear lockers, on board air compressor , 16 speed transmission

1977 fj40 stock
1987 fj60 locked front and rear 33" tires

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#94328 - 05/30/05 05:47 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
mintgecko Offline
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Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 526
Loc: canada
your right, they will always have more torque

I'm just saying that boring a b16a will get it the torque it doesn't have stock.

You can't predict numbers but smaller r/s ratio with high stroke engines like a b18 will always have higher torque numbers then high r/s ratio small stroke engines like a b16a.

Not too sure about the formula..

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#94329 - 05/30/05 05:51 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
b6ixteen Offline
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Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Yeah the LS has the torque because of the stroke. The B16 has a small stroke and thats why it revs high and lacks torque. And yes I would choose high rev HP over low end torque, cause in most racing cases, the rev is kept above 5000rpm where torque in most motors is no more.
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#94330 - 05/30/05 05:52 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
mintgecko Offline
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Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 526
Loc: canada
b6ixteen, are we friends now, lol
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#94331 - 05/30/05 05:58 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
b6ixteen Offline
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Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Why? Because we agree on high rev power? Everyting criss man. I just can't see the LS beating the B16.
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#94332 - 05/30/05 06:02 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
mintgecko Offline
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Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 526
Loc: canada
this is the first post we agree.

Isn't a ls and si block the same?

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#94333 - 05/30/05 09:25 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
Vazquez27 Offline
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Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 143
Loc: Boston MA,
Ok so still alot of really good feed back guys. so i should just get my hands on a b16a1 bore it out to 1.8 or even 2.0 since im not running any boost at all anybody ever do a stroked out b16 to a 2.0 ? and keep the same rod stroke at least i wont have to drill a vtec line or relocate the knock senser. So a b16 stroked to a 1.8 or 2.0 with the compression mm say 11.1 or 12 on 93 gas and keep in mind i will have a fully built head . do you guys think it will be a good idea . i also agree with higher revs more hp if i really wanted a shit load of tourqe i would of got a stang . and what what im going for more hp . let me know what yous think
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#94334 - 05/30/05 10:24 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
mintgecko Offline
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Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 526
Loc: canada
You don't really want to stroke it, it defeats the short stroke which is what helps the motor, and you would also be changing the r/s ratio, Toda offers a stroker kit but make the r/s ratio 1.54, which is not what you want for high revs, that's even lower then the gsr with a r/s ratio of 1.58.

Honda realized they needed to re-enforce the bottom end with that r/s ratio on the gsr/type r and they added a block girdle, now adding that stroker kit to a stock b16a is not a good thing for long term reliability.

I would keep the motor the way it is, and just bore it out, keep the same length rods, stroke, etc.

The thing about the b16a is it has the ideal, r/s ratio, meaning it's right in the middle. Best of both worlds. a compromise between high revs and low end torque.

Bore it out to 84mm, that's about the most you can get, 85 is possible but apparently not to reliable. Your two major companies are aebs and dart, personally I would go with dart but that's all up to you.

This would not only be a good way to build on, it also means reliability.

Here is a link http://g-speed.com/pbh/stroker-info.html

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#94335 - 05/31/05 05:25 AM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
CivicVTi Offline
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Registered: 12/02/99
Posts: 1176
Loc: Athens , Greece
Quote:

I'd take the 18 wtq over 15whp anyday




You forget an important factor: Gearing! The shorter gearing of B16 makes up for the loss in torque in the streets. The only area where you feel lesss powerful is the 3500-5500 rpm area (the black hole of all b16's) but not by that much (you won't feel a 18wtq loss. It will be most likely half of it). In the upper range, b16 has both more torque and shorter gearing and smokes the b18a by far. Not to mention that after each gear change (especially if you rev it a a little higher than a stock limiter) you get past 6000rpm!

I am not saying that torque is not important. On the contrary. But a wide powerband (like that of a b16) is equally if not more important. The best of both worlds is GSR/ITR engines. You have both torque and wide powerbands. Or an LS/VTEC if you like, correctly built (I would never build an LS/VTEC without a good set of rods, girdle and ITR oil/water pumps. I would also slam a set of JDM/Euro ITR pistons and that would be a really good setup).
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#94336 - 05/31/05 08:42 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
Vazquez27 Offline
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Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 143
Loc: Boston MA,
Thanks for the link. so ill just get forged rods and pistons but keep the same bore and stroke . if i bore it out to 84 mm wont that turn the block into a 1.7 ? from the stock bore of a b16 which is 81 mm i think its 81. would this be a better route ?
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#94337 - 05/31/05 11:13 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
mintgecko Offline
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Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 526
Loc: canada
you want to bore it out,


with a
84mm it will be 1.7L
85mm it will be 1.75L
86mm it will be 1.78L

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#94338 - 06/01/05 02:08 AM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
Relix Offline
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Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 16256
Loc: 640 acres of desert
Quote:

Quote:

I'd take the 18 wtq over 15whp anyday




You forget an important factor: Gearing!




I'll give you that gearing of a SIR civic or SI civic is better suited for racing, but if those two engines were in the same car with the same tranny I will put any amount of money that the b18a/b's time to the end of the 1320 will be faster then the b16a's time....Although i do beleive the b16 will trap faster, but the ET will be slower...
_________________________
Don't feed the troll BigAl or Albundy or Alfonso

1976 Fj55 landcruiser, 39" krawlers, front and rear lockers, on board air compressor , 16 speed transmission

1977 fj40 stock
1987 fj60 locked front and rear 33" tires

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#94339 - 06/01/05 09:57 AM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
cruzersi99 Offline
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Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 2513
I dont' disagree with your post but putting a qualifier like "if both motors have the same tranny and equal money put it" then the b18 will be faster doesn't say much. You still have to buy the tranny. The tranny is part of what is lacking in a stock b18b. An easy argument would be then to say, well you swapped the tranny on the b18 so I'll put a 4.9 final drive in the b16.

Additionally to what speeds are you racing to? From a stop from a roll? In each scenario "two equally built motors" will shine in different spots.


Equal money could be spent by two inexperienced builders or by two very experienced builders and the results would probably alternate. I know plenty of people who have spent as much money on a b18b, a b16, and even the b18c5 who aren't faster then me. Doesn't mean, that someone isn't faster then me.

This question was best answered many posts ago. Build what you want, and what you think you will have the most fun with.
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186 whp - Church Automotive (Dynapack)
189 whp - Zero Factory (Bosch)

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#94340 - 06/01/05 07:27 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
Relix Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 16256
Loc: 640 acres of desert
Quote:

I dont' disagree with your post but putting a qualifier like "if both motors have the same tranny and equal money put it" then the b18 will be faster doesn't say much. You still have to buy the tranny. The tranny is part of what is lacking in a stock b18b. An easy argument would be then to say, well you swapped the tranny on the b18 so I'll put a 4.9 final drive in the b16.



Seeing as how the person who started this thread already has both a b16 tranny and a LS tranny, it's a very valid argument..



Quote:

Additionally to what speeds are you racing to? From a stop from a roll? In each scenario "two equally built motors" will shine in different spots.


If you read my statement you'd know I was talking about a 1/4mile drag race(at a track of coarse) seeing as how i was talking about trap speeds,ET's and 1320..
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Don't feed the troll BigAl or Albundy or Alfonso

1976 Fj55 landcruiser, 39" krawlers, front and rear lockers, on board air compressor , 16 speed transmission

1977 fj40 stock
1987 fj60 locked front and rear 33" tires

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#94341 - 06/01/05 09:38 PM Re: B16a1 Vs B18a1 All moter project
cruzersi99 Offline
Post Master


Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 2513
Quote:

If you read my statement you'd know I was talking about a 1/4mile drag race(at a track of coarse) seeing as how i was talking about trap speeds,ET's and 1320..




Actually it was a rhetorical question. It's obvious you were talking about 1/4. I'm pointing out that there's more to racing than the quarter mile.

Either way, I'm not saying a b16a or the b18b is a better choice then the other in this case
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186 whp - Church Automotive (Dynapack)
189 whp - Zero Factory (Bosch)

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