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#8972996 - 03/14/17 02:14 PM Half marathon training plan
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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I'm about 16 weeks from a SUPER flat 1/2.

I'm pushing to stay above 15mpw, much more than 20 seems hard to me. Always has for some reason.

I'm shooting for <8:00 pace.
Most recent: trail 1/2 with 1,700' vert at 2:00, done on like 5-10mpw.
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#8973090 - 03/14/17 03:55 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
Design Offline
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I think it can be done. But every run should be a quality run.

I think you'll eventually have to creep up to 20-25 MPW in order to sneak in that longer run.
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#8973217 - 03/14/17 06:12 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: Design]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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Yeah, my PR is 8:30(which was a long time ago) and basically every run was quality then. I think I peaked at 22 mpw, but averaged only around 15 then.

Basically I'm sort of wondering if I can recreate that. It seems like most programs are:
discarding speedwork for building a base
require 25mpw before putting speed work in.

I'm pretty sure my body is solid at 15, but I worry that I have to very cautiously approach 20+

I should add I cycle about 50/week and will be cycle racing 1-2x a month(hopefully).
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#8973219 - 03/14/17 06:14 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
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make sure you dont have you long run >= 40-50% of your weekly total to stay injury free they say. At least dont do it every week

also my new theory is that 3x1 or 4x1 mile repeats with either walking or light jogging between is the best workout evar. feel the bern
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#8973222 - 03/14/17 06:18 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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Example:
"This 10-week plan was designed for those who have been running consistently for several years and who regularly log an average of 25 to 30 miles per week. It’s geared for those who may have finished a half marathon and now want to finish faster. It features two or three days of rest and four or five days of running each week. It includes speedwork to boost your stamina and plenty of race-pace miles to help you easily get into rhythm on race day. There’s a long run each week, which starts at eight miles in week one and peaks at 13 miles.

PLAN LENGTH: 10 WEEKS
WEEKLY ROUTINE: 4 DAYS OF RUNNING, 3 DAYS OF REST/CROSS-TRAINING
WEEKLY MILEAGE: 21–29 MILES
LONG RUNS: START AT 8 MILES, PEAK AT 14 MILES
QUALITY WORKOUTS: MILE REPEATS, TEMPO RUNS"


Similar at "coolrunnings".
Beginner Half Marathon Training Plan
For runners who currently run 15 to 25 miles per week and expect to run the half marathon in about 2 hours.

Intermediate Half Marathon Training Plan
For runners who curently run 25 to 50 miles per week and expect to run the half marathon in under 1:45:00.
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#8973224 - 03/14/17 06:20 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
KEVIN STICKAZ Online   content
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yea hopefully you can fit that schedule around your week.

spoiler alert: you're going to need access to a treadmill
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#8973237 - 03/14/17 06:47 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: KEVIN STICKAZ]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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There's a treadmill at the work gym I used, but I swear they're like 20% fast.

Also, treadmills work different muscle groups.

And they suck
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#8973240 - 03/14/17 06:53 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
KEVIN STICKAZ Online   content
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its definitely better than nothing, or getting stuck with a bunch of 0-10 mile weeks
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#8973398 - 03/14/17 10:07 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: KEVIN STICKAZ]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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I really like 2 mile repeats for half and full marathon. 2 miles at goal pace then 1 easy, repeat.

Edited by Mrs. Ironmom (03/14/17 10:08 PM)

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#8974179 - 03/15/17 02:56 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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That seems like an odd middle ground between a pace run(lactate tolerance) and intervals(VO2).



I mean I'll probably give them a try once I get into speed work(t-minus 2 weeks I think).
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#8974215 - 03/15/17 03:27 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
KEVIN STICKAZ Online   content
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or just do what Ed Whitlock did.

Run aimlessly around a graveyard for 3 hours a day, at super slow pace. Just fast enough that you arent worried about taking an unscheduled day off to recover, ever. He only raced on race days [maybe 1x/month]. Seemed to be good enough to set like 850 masters WR's

When he was in ~2:50 marathon shape at age 73 he says he averaged 9:00/miles or thereabouts but really has no idea. slow af
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#8974239 - 03/15/17 03:48 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: KEVIN STICKAZ]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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Stickaz, you are by far the most useful poster
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#8974485 - 03/15/17 06:28 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
That seems like an odd middle ground between a pace run(lactate tolerance) and intervals(VO2).



I mean I'll probably give them a try once I get into speed work(t-minus 2 weeks I think).


I found that it put me in the same discomfort zone that is what most of a hard effort race will consist of from the gun. Mile repeats were too short to get my brain used to the idea that my body could keep pushing when I thought I couldn't.

For the record...I did them a lot before finally getting that BQ.

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#8974567 - 03/15/17 07:40 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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I mean most half plans have a tempo run of 5-8 miles.
It seems like that's hitting the spots of what you're saying.

I'm open to trying it.
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#8975112 - 03/16/17 11:52 AM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
Design Offline
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I think they both accomplish the same thing.

As long as you are attempting to run outside your comfort zone, I think you should see gains.
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#8976227 - 03/17/17 11:52 AM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: Design]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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Yeah, I'm pretty comfortable "outside my comfort zone".

If anything that's what keeps holding me up, too aggresive with teh speed/pace work.


Just found out my track is delayed.
https://www.portlandoregon.gov/parks/article/632546
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#8976295 - 03/17/17 12:45 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
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my 6:06 mile adult-onset/masters PR seems safe af
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#8976364 - 03/17/17 01:16 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: KEVIN STICKAZ]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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I'm about to do one on the river path, in the rain, just to make you STFU.

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#8977182 - 03/18/17 11:55 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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so for shits and giggles I went and did 5 @ goal pace for my weekend trail run

came in about 15 seconds under pace, over a couple hundred feet of vert (strava's Grade adjustment has me another 25 seconds faster). Trail was supremely sloppy too (sloppy mud or a large puddle every 500' or so).

I was fading towards the end, and I'd definitely rate it as "hard as fuck" while doing it. But I had enough to trot/jog out the cool-down.

I'm really starting to wonder if I should just run the shoulder rather than the road and still manage a pb.
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#8978535 - 03/20/17 03:50 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
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sweet. I hope you sneak under 1:40 soon, doesnt look like its too far off , but probably would take a bunch [8-12?] of 25-30 mpw to get there...
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#8978551 - 03/20/17 03:59 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: KEVIN STICKAZ]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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I agree that 1:40 might take more miles and I'm not sure my feet will like that. Not risking another round of plantar fasciatus for that sort of glory.

But Pretty sure I'm nearly ready for 20mpw and some mild speed work to get mid 1:40s.
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#8978556 - 03/20/17 04:06 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
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I think you're already at mid 1:40s tho, just need a flat course :p
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#8981728 - 03/23/17 11:39 AM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: KEVIN STICKAZ]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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So there's a 1/2 on 4/2, should I do it. Just fo shits/giggles?
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#8981774 - 03/23/17 12:11 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
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hell yea, just make sure to hit about :60s--120s over what I do
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#8981831 - 03/23/17 12:49 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: KEVIN STICKAZ]
Design Offline
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Do it.
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#8981940 - 03/23/17 02:19 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: Design]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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Think I might just target 8:00 and no faster.
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#8981951 - 03/23/17 02:25 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
KEVIN STICKAZ Online   content
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thats a solid goal imo, 1:44:38 without even looking it up, lmao
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#8994420 - 04/04/17 06:27 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: KEVIN STICKAZ]
KEVIN STICKAZ Online   content
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i think the only thing that matters in half training plans once your body can handle the distance is the tempo run

and that tempo run has to be based on your CURRENT fitness, not your goal fitness

Just as a fer-instance, tempo runs of 20-40 minutes in duration based on my most recent half result are: [I plugged in 1:43]

Tempo Run

7:25-7:41
85-90 HRmax, 80-85 HHReserve, effort-medium
So if 20 minutes long, closer to 7:25, if 40 minutes long, 7:40

If I instead plug in my 5K current PR, it says tempo paces are 6:59--7:16

um, no. Not happening. lol. I'll do mile repeats around 6:30--6:40/mi tho

so imho, get one or maybe 2 tempos in a week, hit 20 mpw, I think you're ok on the long run side
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#8994436 - 04/04/17 06:51 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: KEVIN STICKAZ]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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I agree with your assessment that given a "fixed" vo2 your tempo in second only to pure endurance. Though I'm not sure 5 10+ milers over 5 months is enough endurance yet. But I'll transition from monthly long runs to bi-monthly or weekly shortly

The hard part is picking a tempo pace. Remember I have 0 race/hard road runs in the last 2 years (the few even approaching it have made my feet ache).

Lack of good measure of fitness makes it hard to gauge what I should be doing for speed. Like I did that "trail tempo" run a couple weeks ago but that was off-road/rainy and probably a bit harder than target?
Basically without HR monitor or recent race I'm shooting in the dark.


I think 2 tempos is far too much of that intensity btw.
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#8995119 - 04/05/17 11:54 AM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
KEVIN STICKAZ Online   content
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You're probably right. Was just commenting that I think you have the long run capability more than covered base on your results lately, also I'm worried that when you do >50% of your weekly mileage in one run you're risking injury anyways. Given that, perhaps a 40 minute tempo with a warmdown could replace that long run then. I dunno. Surround it with easy yogs around 9:00 the rest of the week.
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#8995275 - 04/05/17 01:26 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: KEVIN STICKAZ]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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Goddamn you guys make my head hurt!
Just get out and RUN!

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#8995288 - 04/05/17 01:39 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
KEVIN STICKAZ Online   content
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I'm gonna do a 20 minute tempo tomorrow [target 7:25] surrounded by easy 1 milers. Today I swim. Come at me
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#8995336 - 04/05/17 02:10 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom
Goddamn you guys make my head hurt!
Just get out and RUN!
This is what happens when you strap runners to a desk/computer
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#8995348 - 04/05/17 02:16 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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p.s. still haven't seen a good plan posted
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#8995407 - 04/05/17 03:14 PM Re: Half marathon training plan [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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p.p.s.

Someone recommend me a GPS/HR watch. I get "pro-deal" on suunto, which looks like only 28% off.
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