#8264958 - 06/25/15 08:52 AM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: TheRealCSnapper]
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4age
XD XD XD XD
Post Master Sr
Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 3969
Loc: North York, Ontario, Canada
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the actual process is easy. fill out some forms, yup. cost anywhere from 1.5k to 3k+. you will need your incorporation, a business number and an hst number.
you do your own payroll remittances, hst remittance etc. The benefit all boils down to how aggressive you are willing to be in taking advantage of grey areas + having a suitable accountant.
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#8265044 - 06/25/15 09:33 AM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: SuPeR-MaRiO]
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Risky Business
Provides a Great Work Environment. he/him
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 44790
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I am on my phone right now so I can't give you a full write out but it comes down to paying less tax if you are incorporated and a contractor. You can pay yourself via dividend which is taxed at a lower rate than income tax however you forego the accumulation of rrsp room and such which isn't the the end of the world. Word of caution, if you incorporate and work for someone rather than multiple clients (not at arms length) you will be deemed an employee and the incorporating will not give you any tax benefit. It's been a while since I've gone over the rules. First understand why you are incorporating and if it even makes sense and then take it from there.
You can incorporate for less than 500 online, you will need to file annual returns going forward which cost a couple of hundred.
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#8265089 - 06/25/15 09:57 AM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: TheRealCSnapper]
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4age
XD XD XD XD
Post Master Sr
Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 3969
Loc: North York, Ontario, Canada
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u can pay into RRSP. what risky is saying is in your setup, you technically are an employee. on paper you are a contractor, but if you are only doing business with this 1 place, you will not (read: should not) reap the benefits of going to a numbered business.
You can pay into RRSP if you pay yourself a salary (rather than dividend).
The other advantage of being incorporated is not paying urself all the income...and u can invest the money in the business through other channels. u save some tax that way (annually anyway)
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#8265200 - 06/25/15 10:51 AM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: c2k]
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4age
XD XD XD XD
Post Master Sr
Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 3969
Loc: North York, Ontario, Canada
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^yes but up to a certain %
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#8265509 - 06/25/15 01:16 PM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: 4age]
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Lafora
Post Master Sr
Registered: 12/16/01
Posts: 4623
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the actual process is easy. fill out some forms, yup. cost anywhere from 1.5k to 3k+. you will need your incorporation, a business number and an hst number.
you do your own payroll remittances, hst remittance etc. The benefit all boils down to how aggressive you are willing to be in taking advantage of grey areas + having a suitable accountant.
doesn't take that much.
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#8265902 - 06/25/15 05:09 PM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: Risky Business]
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Simon_the_Pieman
Post Master Sr
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 9462
Loc: The A
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What kind of shit can you ... 'write off', assuming only 1 'client'?
- clothing expenses? (No, not a uniform. I'm talking that Gucci watch, Prada tie) - Gas? - Food? - Gift cards? (StarBucks, Subway, Spa, shopping mall) - Hotels - Condoms - Cell phone bill - Cell phone You can write off anything and everything as long as the CRA doesn't audit you. People are abusing the shit out of this and the CRA is starting to clamp down on contractors in particular. As far as writing off portion of housing costs, yea allowed but it can be deemed as work space and upon sale you can be taxed on capital gains of the square footage. It's very rare, but like I said the CRA is clamping down on all of this shit. I know people who have gone through audits and are on the hook for 50k+ with liens on their assets. Do whatver you want at your own risk, everyone is a city slicker writing off that starbucks coffee on a Sunday morning until they get audited
thats why i dont fuck around. work is work / personal is personal. if i get audited at least im clean. why fuck shit up for me and my employees?
do the right thing.
snapper, if you are planning to offer your services elsewhere at the same time then inc. if not then solprop.
_________________________
"I'd love it if we did it... but I guess I'm a big skeptic on Canadians because so many are retarded as fuck." - 355-Si, 2020
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#8265941 - 06/25/15 05:26 PM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: Risky Business]
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TheRealBenzo
Jr Member
Registered: 03/09/02
Posts: 657
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Some of the posts above raise the questions you should be asking (of yourself and your employer). Generally speaking, it's easier to understand that you do not really "incorporate yourself" - the use of this language can cause confusion and missteps from both a taxation and structure standpoint. You will either be a self-employed independent contractor ("IC" for the purposes of this discussion) in which case your salary will be taxable at your personal marginal rate, or carry on their activities THROUGH a corporation ("Corp") - a distinct entity apart from yourself which will be taxed at corp fed/prov rate (will touch on this in a moment).
If you are going to be a sole proprietor IC, confirm this with your employer (should be fine if others are in a similar arrangement) but understand that the employee versus independent contractor determination is a question of fact and the factors to be considered in any given case will be different. Generally, if you provide services through your corporation and, if not for the corporation, you could be considered an employee of the entity to which you provide the services, the corporation may be considered a personal services business (apart from some very specific tax planning arrangements, this is a bad thing). You do not want to earn income as an IC, only to be deemed a PSB (read:)employee by the CRA and have all deductions disallowed (your employer also has a dog-in-the-fight here, so they will likely have already turned their mind to this).
Option B is operating through a corporation in order to obtain the benefit of small business deductions (this is a longer discussion, but you cannot simply "write-off" anything salient to the business; your accountant will speak to what can and cannot be deducted). Your two main benefits to incorporation are tax savings (by way of income splitting) and if the funds are left in the corporation, tax deferral of the what would other wise be income taxable at your personal marginal rate (corporations pay less tax, you do not realize any income until you (or your spouse, children) are personally paid out as shareholder(s) of the Corp.
The cost of option B will be the registry fees (depending upon jurisdiction around $400) and the cost of drafting your post incorp docs. An estimate of $1000 for a junior/paralegal at a smaller shop to put everything together (including reg fees) would be getting a good "deal". Though like anything else, work product should be front of mind (I've seen some fucking mind-blowing "friend who is a lawyer or something gave me a good deal" minute books in my time).
Hope that answers your questions for the most part. Feel free to ask clarifying questions, I'm experiencing death-by-conference-call right now.
_________________________
"Sounds like she's carrying baggage. Keep your trunk closed. " Moof, 2003
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#8266017 - 06/25/15 06:00 PM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: Risky Business]
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TheRealBenzo
Jr Member
Registered: 03/09/02
Posts: 657
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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What CAN you write off as a single-client sole pro? What SHOULD you write off as a single-client sole pro?
This is more of an accountant question, but generally speaking you can deduct expenses paid in the course of earning business income. I'll direct you to the CRA listing to see examples: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/slprtnr/bsnssxpnss/menu-eng.html#expenses
What CAN you write off as a single-client sole pro? What SHOULD you write off as a single-client sole pro? Did you not read the fucking thread? Single client anything and you will be deemed an employee for tax purposes by the CRA. This is a more nuanced answer, which would require facts in order to properly characterize the relationship. If there was a disagreement as to whether or not you could, as a SP, work for one client without being deemed to be an employee, a test would be used to determine, among other things, how reliant one party is on the other. One of the prongs of this test is whether or not the IC has other clients, but it is not determinative.
Edit: If the foregoing is not clear, maybe an example would help. Let's say you work as a gas fitter for a large oil and gas company that controls most of the work in your area so all your work comes through them simply by way of volume. You would look like an employee. But let's say that you tell them when you come and go, you bring your own tools, and if you don't feel like taking a job you can refuse. Now, despite the fact that you have one client, you are starting to look more like an IC. Make sense?
Edited by TheRealBenzo (06/25/15 06:07 PM)
_________________________
"Sounds like she's carrying baggage. Keep your trunk closed. " Moof, 2003
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#8266059 - 06/25/15 06:50 PM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: TheRealBenzo]
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Risky Business
Provides a Great Work Environment. he/him
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 44790
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What CAN you write off as a single-client sole pro? What SHOULD you write off as a single-client sole pro? This is more of an accountant question, but generally speaking you can deduct expenses paid in the course of earning business income. I'll direct you to the CRA listing to see examples: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/slprtnr/bsnssxpnss/menu-eng.html#expensesWhat CAN you write off as a single-client sole pro? What SHOULD you write off as a single-client sole pro? Did you not read the fucking thread? Single client anything and you will be deemed an employee for tax purposes by the CRA. This is a more nuanced answer, which would require facts in order to properly characterize the relationship. If there was a disagreement as to whether or not you could, as a SP, work for one client without being deemed to be an employee, a test would be used to determine, among other things, how reliant one party is on the other. One of the prongs of this test is whether or not the IC has other clients, but it is not determinative. Edit: If the foregoing is not clear, maybe an example would help. Let's say you work as a gas fitter for a large oil and gas company that controls most of the work in your area so all your work comes through them simply by way of volume. You would look like an employee. But let's say that you tell them when you come and go, you bring your own tools, and if you don't feel like taking a job you can refuse. Now, despite the fact that you have one client, you are starting to look more like an IC. Make sense?
You need context in order to understand why I answered a certain way, if you care to search under “threads created by furball” you will understand.
Yes you are right in everything you said, your example however is the exception and not the rule. Knowing what most of the posters do here (white collar service jobs) and having a bit of background on c_snapper’s personal situation my response is mostly catered to that..
Back to what you said, there are few things to consider and you pretty much nailed it with who sets the wages/hours/etc. CRA will draw a line in the sand if the notion of “control” exists. More likely than not for professional services with single client base, the “contractor” will be deemed an employee, the exception exists usually for those who have single clients, but do project based work that usually ends within a year and they move on to the next client (I believe it has to be within 18 months max, can’t recall now). Now before anyone shits their pants and provides anecdotal evidence that this isn’t true, go back to my earlier post about “until you get audited”. I know people who’ve been bit and I know those who are still going strong abusing the system who haven’t been caught, it’s all just a matter of time, but using the latter example as evidence as to why you can be a contractor with a single client is stupid.
Full disclosure, I am an accountant, but small business tax isn’t my specialty and I am going off based on memory, however I’ve had a numbered corp for years and did work as a Sole prop for years (in construction – where it’s a lot more common and easy to prove).
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#8266298 - 06/26/15 04:19 AM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: TheRealCSnapper]
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TheRealBenzo
Jr Member
Registered: 03/09/02
Posts: 657
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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jesus. you guys really educated me. thanks!
shouts to TheRealBenzo for the VERY informative wall of text, tho there are still some confusion. I look forward to speaking with the accountant. Full disclosure, my new employer is also my best friend's father. This is the personal accountant he's used for YEARS, and since he's a very wealthy man, I'm sure his accountant knows what he's doing. At least now I know what questions to ask the accountant when i do speak to him.
The new gig is a "private equity" firm and have shares in various companies, perhaps they will be paying me through the different companies, and i'll won't be treated as an employee.
whatever i end up doing, it'll be very above board. Apparently one of the other dudes there only paid 13% taxes last year.
If you're going to be in PE in Toronto you may have danced well into my space, and our crowd; in which case there are other considerations which prompt a longer discussion. I have 100 days in Ontario, and as a 12/05/02 poster I guess I owe some sort of an obligation. So I'll paper it if you want for cost.
PM me your firm and accounting firm (they will have to sign off on structure and elections) and I'll put you in touch with our local guys.
_________________________
"Sounds like she's carrying baggage. Keep your trunk closed. " Moof, 2003
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#8266366 - 06/26/15 07:19 AM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: Simon_the_Pieman]
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LNXGUY
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 106959
Loc: Barrie, Ont,
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It's like our own version of Suits in here
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-Bill The GN would OWN you, your children and your children's children. '09 E90 335 d
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#8266469 - 06/26/15 08:32 AM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: Simon_the_Pieman]
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Risky Business
Provides a Great Work Environment. he/him
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 44790
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Harvey, dat man crush love
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#8267239 - 06/26/15 02:52 PM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: Simon_the_Pieman]
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c2k
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 05/21/00
Posts: 19291
Loc: Wiesloch-Walldorf, Germany
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who has rights to change the name to TheRealCSnapper? thats awesome bro. congrats again and all the best!
I enlisted our fellow admin kuku to assist you. He will change the name for you.
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Who cares
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#8268369 - 06/27/15 08:15 PM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: Hatorade]
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Lafora
Post Master Sr
Registered: 12/16/01
Posts: 4623
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Tom Ford is awesome!!! Too peasant to afford.
buying rtw suits albeit high end label? fuck that.
at TF price you're touching on savile row trunk show in nyc prices. even an anderson sheppard isn't that much more over a TF.
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#8268376 - 06/27/15 08:24 PM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: Lafora]
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Hatorade
pheggit
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/05/99
Posts: 26894
Loc: Toronto, ON
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Tom Ford is awesome!!! Too peasant to afford. buying rtw suits albeit high end label? fuck that. at TF price you're touching on savile row trunk show in nyc prices. even an anderson sheppard isn't that much more over a TF. I have no idea what you're talking about lol /peasent
_________________________
'07 997.1 GT3 '08 E90 M3 '11 E90 d '02 Rota Grid - 195-55-16FR (RIP) '04 Volk GTC - 245-35-19F/275-35-19R (Sold to a farm boi) I thought Spark was a robot from the old movie and I kind of remember seeing him telling some engineer showing the equation for a clear metal that the guy would event years later - porschetr
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#8268966 - 06/28/15 07:41 PM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: Hatorade]
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OracerO
Post Master Sr
Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 3949
Loc: GTA
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I have two Incs.
You can incorp. online for around $500. No need to go the route of a lawyer. Just research, you will be a better business man afterwards.
Rake in 6-8months, and slowly learn taxes, rrsp contributions, write offs ..etc as you go.
Records, Organization, records, just save everything in monthly envelopes and learn by experience when tax season comes up.
On a better day i'll write up all i know.
Get a good accountant, it's worth the money. There's to much information, loopholes, strategies etc...
Or PM me.
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#8269180 - 06/29/15 02:25 AM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: OracerO]
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TheRealBenzo
Jr Member
Registered: 03/09/02
Posts: 657
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Please consider the following comments:
This means nothing. This is the equivalent of saying that you have two flowerpots. What have you grown since buying the pots? What has been the yield of those plants? Unless you were/are intending to use them as a shelf Corp. or for some other amalg there is nothing of substance in this comment. This makes you sound ill-equipped to advise.
You can incorp. online for around $500. No need to go the route of a lawyer. Just research, you will be a better business man afterwards. I don't know what you mean by "online", but I assume you mean some of the services who advertise that they can file the paperwork - which you can definitely file yourself by going through the registry. The registry fees would actually be less than 500 if you wanted to do it yourself....which I do not recommend (apparent bias is apparent, but given the relatively nominal dollar amount we're talking about here let's just assume this can be a nonissue).
As an aside, I note that you can also save money by cutting your own hair, performing your own major surgeries, as well as a number of other tasks which would I suppose be good from a monetary perspective however I submit that this is not necessarily a great idea - especially if you are intending to leave the house or, I suppose, remain alive.
Rake in 6-8months, and slowly learn taxes, rrsp contributions, write offs ..etc as you go. Why would you rake in income for 6 to 8 months without having a vetted tax plan and incorporation which would dictate how that income was characterized,distributed? This is a cart before the horse comment and, again, should probably be revisited.
Records, Organization, records I'll add to this list: Business, Synergy, Teamwork, Friendship.
On a better day i'll write up all i know. Why so glum, Chum? A better day is all about perspective. I actually really do want to read this write up.
Get a good accountant, it's worth the money. There's to much information, loopholes, strategies etc... Let me get this straight, a good accountant is worth the money but the lawyer who informs the accountant on nearly all aspects of the ongoing maintenance of the tax plan, will be drafting all of the post incorporation documents based on the share structure of the Corp. and will be maintaining the requirements under the Act, is not worth the money? I really want to go grocery shopping with you sometime.
Seriously though, I think that your words are well intended but completely irresponsible in a practical, rational, sense.
_________________________
"Sounds like she's carrying baggage. Keep your trunk closed. " Moof, 2003
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#8269250 - 06/29/15 07:44 AM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: TheRealBenzo]
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furball
Post Master Sr
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9484
Loc: Toronto, ON
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Fucking kudos to Benzo, he the real shit.
There are some real asshats on this forum (not directed at OracerO in this case) that really put a damper on people who don't know their stuff ... (There are indeed asshat idiots on the flip side as well)
Cheers.
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#8269300 - 06/29/15 08:32 AM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: furball]
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Hatorade
pheggit
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/05/99
Posts: 26894
Loc: Toronto, ON
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Fucking kudos to Benzo, he the real shit. There are some real asshats on this forum (not directed at OracerO in this case) that really put a damper on people who don't know their stuff ... (There are indeed asshat idiots on the flip side as well) Cheers.
It's not nice talking about yourself like that.
_________________________
'07 997.1 GT3 '08 E90 M3 '11 E90 d '02 Rota Grid - 195-55-16FR (RIP) '04 Volk GTC - 245-35-19F/275-35-19R (Sold to a farm boi) I thought Spark was a robot from the old movie and I kind of remember seeing him telling some engineer showing the equation for a clear metal that the guy would event years later - porschetr
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#8269535 - 06/29/15 11:16 AM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: furball]
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Risky Business
Provides a Great Work Environment. he/him
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 44790
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Fucking kudos to Benzo, he the real shit. There are some real asshats on this forum (not directed at OracerO in this case) that really put a damper on people who don't know their stuff ... (There are indeed asshat idiots on the flip side as well) Cheers.
There are also those who ask questions in threads that were already answered creating more unnecessary confusion. What about those lazy asshats?
@therealbenzo
The "maintenance" of the tax plan is generally done by an accountant. I think you are bringing in more confusion (for the sake of proving your point, I understand) by talking large corp structure vs a contractor who generally interacts with the lawyer at inception about structure of corp and officer(s), spread of liability, bylaws, annual resolution etc...that's about it for a contractor.
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#8269625 - 06/29/15 11:58 AM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: TheRealBenzo]
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OracerO
Post Master Sr
Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 3949
Loc: GTA
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Please consider the following comments: This means nothing. This is the equivalent of saying that you have two flowerpots. What have you grown since buying the pots? What has been the yield of those plants? Unless you were/are intending to use them as a shelf Corp. or for some other amalg there is nothing of substance in this comment. This makes you sound ill-equipped to advise. You can incorp. online for around $500. No need to go the route of a lawyer. Just research, you will be a better business man afterwards. I don't know what you mean by "online", but I assume you mean some of the services who advertise that they can file the paperwork - which you can definitely file yourself by going through the registry. The registry fees would actually be less than 500 if you wanted to do it yourself....which I do not recommend (apparent bias is apparent, but given the relatively nominal dollar amount we're talking about here let's just assume this can be a nonissue). As an aside, I note that you can also save money by cutting your own hair, performing your own major surgeries, as well as a number of other tasks which would I suppose be good from a monetary perspective however I submit that this is not necessarily a great idea - especially if you are intending to leave the house or, I suppose, remain alive. Rake in 6-8months, and slowly learn taxes, rrsp contributions, write offs ..etc as you go. Why would you rake in income for 6 to 8 months without having a vetted tax plan and incorporation which would dictate how that income was characterized,distributed? This is a cart before the horse comment and, again, should probably be revisited. Records, Organization, records I'll add to this list: Business, Synergy, Teamwork, Friendship. On a better day i'll write up all i know. Why so glum, Chum? A better day is all about perspective. I actually really do want to read this write up. Get a good accountant, it's worth the money. There's to much information, loopholes, strategies etc... Let me get this straight, a good accountant is worth the money but the lawyer who informs the accountant on nearly all aspects of the ongoing maintenance of the tax plan, will be drafting all of the post incorporation documents based on the share structure of the Corp. and will be maintaining the requirements under the Act, is not worth the money? I really want to go grocery shopping with you sometime. Seriously though, I think that your words are well intended but completely irresponsible in a practical, rational, sense.
Let's set the tone here.
I'm not an accountant or lawyer, nor am I knocking either. I'm a bootstrapping entrepreneur. I have a good team of accounting, lawyers and many other x-factors.
Again, dependent on many variables for OP's case. His original post just stated for Incorporating: cost, application purpose and benefits. Not the whole shabang of running a business.
Many variables in running a business in which i didn't state. For example He asked the basics, so i gave the OP more inline of a contractor's aspects of accounting, which would be "records, organization of those records."
Your post Benzo, good post btw, super educated, and well researched. Clear and definite. You can research all you want without execution and you will still be confused about incorporation/ business running.
However, business running isn't what the op asked. So without flooding his mind with complex steps on running a business (which he didn't ask btw), I gave the basics. (OP check out corporationscanada.ic.gc.ca or something along those lines)
OP, via his post didn't seam like he needed something extravagant, everything you mentioned can be learned via experience ...of action. From what i read on earlier post he's getting paid as a contractor instead of being an employee?
There's no doubt you seem like you know you're shiznit Benzo, not everyone can afford 2-3k just to incorporate because he needs to cross all the x's and o's from the beginning.
Yes doing shit correct in the beginning would be best case scenario. There isn't ONE way in doing business or anything involved with business. Doesn't matter how he accomplishes his Inc/business task just as long as he gets there, legitimately.
And Yes i have two Incs, they are not shelf corps. They both are generating income. I didn't open two corps because i foresaw the future and needed it (would be best case scenario if did 10 years ago with dropping 6k in lawyer fees, but everything STILL worked out - of course this is dependent on a case by case purpose).
edit: The funny thing @realbenzo, I didn't read your first post till now. did you get all defensive because i gave "lawyers' an honorable mention about not needing them? lol
There are two schools of thought.
1: Research, get educated, cross all the dots and write on all the lines. Debate over every existence of every idea of every business/incorporation path to take. Debate even down to the the dumbest shit, ie. Naming things.
Or
2:
Just do it. Get it done. Learn by placing your hand on the fire and constantly move forward.
Edited by OracerO (06/29/15 01:20 PM)
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#8269682 - 06/29/15 12:18 PM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: Euphoricuck]
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TheRealCSnapper
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 31955
Loc: Toronto, Canada
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#8270684 - 06/29/15 10:16 PM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: Risky Business]
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TheRealBenzo
Jr Member
Registered: 03/09/02
Posts: 657
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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@therealbenzo The "maintenance" of the tax plan is generally done by an accountant. I think you are bringing in more confusion (for the sake of proving your point, I understand) by talking large corp structure vs a contractor who generally interacts with the lawyer at inception about structure of corp and officer(s), spread of liability, bylaws, annual resolution etc...that's about it for a contractor.
Maintenance is the wrong word here. Not sure what the right one is but I was intending to describe when a change to the structure occurs (here, perhaps he takes on a partner demanding a change to the capital structure, or whatever). Filings, elections, and other smaller taxation issues should absolutely go through the accountant (he/she will receive the incorp/post incorp docs following execution, filing)
Sorry, I should not be so heavy handed. It was 42 degrees here and I spent the day riding to Golden BC and back. The things we do for a pretty face.....
There's no doubt you seem like you know you're shiznit Benzo, not everyone can afford 2-3k just to incorporate because he needs to cross all the x's and o's from the beginning. In cases such as this, for my guys, I typically don’t even bill them until they see a benefit from the incorp. We defer stuff like this all the time to remove barriers to entry. Most firms will not, however. This is a discretionary policy we enacted mostly due to our work on the startup side.
The funny thing @realbenzo, I didn't read your first post till now. did you get all defensive because i gave "lawyers' an honorable mention about not needing them? lol 50% that and 50% I am dealing with someone who completely fucked up a transaction right now based on ‘not needing a lawyer’. Trust me, jokes aside, you do not want to be in this person’s shoes.
There are two schools of thought. 1: Research, get educated, cross all the dots and write on all the lines. Debate over every existence of every idea of every business/incorporation path to take. Debate even down to the the dumbest shit, ie. Naming things. Or 2: Just do it. Get it done. Learn by placing your hand on the fire and constantly move forward. There is some truth to this. Junior startups are prone to stagnation as a result of over thinking things. IMO it’s a coping mechanism for the panic that sets in as things become real. IE: “WE NEED A WEBSITE AND IT MUST BE THIS DOMAIN NAME OR WE WILL NEVER BE ON DRAGONS DEN!!!.......then we discuss costs to manufacture.”
I try to instill in them a more balanced approach which seems to be successful.
Anyway, I speak at the business school here once a year and cover off the “must knows” for startups and those who are going to eventually work in the oilsands as ICs. I’ll make some time to put that into text and post up here for future reference as it should address most questions.
_________________________
"Sounds like she's carrying baggage. Keep your trunk closed. " Moof, 2003
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#8270852 - 06/30/15 04:38 AM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: TheRealBenzo]
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Choco 'Nuck
Proud Member of BLM
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 17568
Loc: Somewhere out there
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The question is do you still give traffic ticket advice
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#8270884 - 06/30/15 07:17 AM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: Risky Business]
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furball
Post Master Sr
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9484
Loc: Toronto, ON
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It's not lazy, it's trying to get a clearer answer from someone who appears to be in the know more than others...
You might not write off your shirt and tie, maybe because you've heard anecdotes or otherwise. Benzo might have a more suitable answer such as 'ideally, only if it's a uniform such as overalls, etc.'
Get off your high horse and click back for fucks sake. I value your expert view/answers, not always your opinion or off-handed trolling.
Full disclosure, I am an accountant, but small business tax isn’t my specialty and I am going off based on memory, however I’ve had a numbered corp for years and did work as a Sole prop for years (in construction – where it’s a lot more common and easy to prove).
There are also those who ask questions in threads that were already answered creating more unnecessary confusion. What about those lazy asshats?
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#8270903 - 06/30/15 07:40 AM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: furball]
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Euphoricuck
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
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It's not lazy, it's trying to get a clearer answer from someone who appears to be in the know more than others... You might not write off your shirt and tie, maybe because you've heard anecdotes or otherwise. Benzo might have a more suitable answer such as 'ideally, only if it's a uniform such as overalls, etc.' Get off your high horse and click back for fucks sake. I value your expert view/answers, not always your opinion or off-handed trolling. Full disclosure, I am an accountant, but small business tax isn’t my specialty and I am going off based on memory, however I’ve had a numbered corp for years and did work as a Sole prop for years (in construction – where it’s a lot more common and easy to prove). There are also those who ask questions in threads that were already answered creating more unnecessary confusion. What about those lazy asshats?
_________________________
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#8270906 - 06/30/15 07:41 AM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: furball]
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Risky Business
Provides a Great Work Environment. he/him
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 44790
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It's not lazy, it's trying to get a clearer answer from someone who appears to be in the know more than others... You might not write off your shirt and tie, maybe because you've heard anecdotes or otherwise. Benzo might have a more suitable answer such as 'ideally, only if it's a uniform such as overalls, etc.' Get off your high horse and click back for fucks sake. I value your expert view/answers, not always your opinion or off-handed trolling. Full disclosure, I am an accountant, but small business tax isn’t my specialty and I am going off based on memory, however I’ve had a numbered corp for years and did work as a Sole prop for years (in construction – where it’s a lot more common and easy to prove). There are also those who ask questions in threads that were already answered creating more unnecessary confusion. What about those lazy asshats?
I really try my best to help people out in the Ontario forum as we all have a personal connection. I treat everyone the same, for you I even go out of my way not to give you more shit. I will however need help getting off my high horse right after you tell me my facepalm was not justified:
What FOUR people REPEATED:
Word of caution, if you incorporate and work for someone rather than multiple clients (not at arms length) you will be deemed an employee and the incorporating will not give you any tax benefit.
what risky is saying is in your setup, you technically are an employee. on paper you are a contractor, but if you are only doing business with this 1 place, you will not (read: should not) reap the benefits of going to a numbered business.
You need more than one client over the year or you will be deemed an employee. Even if its just friends with smaller companies that you can invoice to show that you had multiple clients.
If you are going to be a sole proprietor IC, confirm this with your employer (should be fine if others are in a similar arrangement) but understand that the employee versus independent contractor determination is a question of fact and the factors to be considered in any given case will be different. Generally, if you provide services through your corporation and, if not for the corporation, you could be considered an employee of the entity to which you provide the services, the corporation may be considered a personal services business (apart from some very specific tax planning arrangements, this is a bad thing). You do not want to earn income as an IC, only to be deemed a PSB (read:)employee by the CRA and have all deductions disallowed (your employer also has a dog-in-the-fight here, so they will likely have already turned their mind to this).
Then you go ahead and ask this:
What CAN you write off as a single-client sole pro? What SHOULD you write off as a single-client sole pro?
W.T.F?
If still not clear at least explain why because it seems to me it was made blatantly OBVIOUS that if you are a "single client sole pro" then you will be deemed an employee, therefore NOT able to write anything off (save me the example of guys working in oil/gas, I am talking about white collar professional services contractors that the CRA currently has a hard on for).
What else do you need clarified?
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#8270909 - 06/30/15 07:42 AM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: TheRealBenzo]
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Screamin Type ARGH!
High Value Poster
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/20/01
Posts: 47669
Loc: T.O. - Canaduh
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There are two schools of thought. 1: Research, get educated, cross all the dots and write on all the lines. Debate over every existence of every idea of every business/incorporation path to take. Debate even down to the the dumbest shit, ie. Naming things. Or 2: Just do it. Get it done. Learn by placing your hand on the fire and constantly move forward. There is some truth to this. Junior startups are prone to stagnation as a result of over thinking things. IMO it’s a coping mechanism for the panic that sets in as things become real. IE: “WE NEED A WEBSITE AND IT MUST BE THIS DOMAIN NAME OR WE WILL NEVER BE ON DRAGONS DEN!!!.......then we discuss costs to manufacture.” I try to instill in them a more balanced approach which seems to be successful. Anyway, I speak at the business school here once a year and cover off the “must knows” for startups and those who are going to eventually work in the oilsands as ICs. I’ll make some time to put that into text and post up here for future reference as it should address most questions.
Haha
_________________________
"Ban low performance drivers, not high performance cars"
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#8271512 - 06/30/15 12:47 PM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: TheRealBenzo]
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OracerO
Post Master Sr
Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 3949
Loc: GTA
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I bet @realCsnapper is super confused.
Snapper, just keep it simple, take one step at a time.
It's good to do research, i like to do enough research that i know the lingo. I stop with my research until i rock a few steps, then i go back and research - it becomes clearer.
Anyway, I speak at the business school here once a year and cover off the “must knows” for startups and those who are going to eventually work in the oilsands as ICs. I’ll make some time to put that into text and post up here for future reference as it should address most questions.
@therealbenzo (why does everyone have 'real' in their name)
I don't understand this statement. You're just trying to piss more than all of us.
I, as well speak at a business school's entrepreneurship program, yearly. /bragPostnojoke
Now we both are entered into a pissing contest.
This is the exact same thing as me stating "i have two incs" and you bombing me for it.
Why can't we all just help without pissing on each other? We all have different views/ approaches to anything in life. It's enlightening to share. There is no need to state our credentials and then reinforce it repeatedly. CSI-ONT is a tight nit group who i have some long time friends here, who have helped me out.
Why can't we all get along?
SNapper, i meaan theREALsnapper, I got the solution for you. Hire Benzo, he and his firm will defer payment for the paper work.
There we all win.
CSI meet anyone? Downtown? Friday? Thursday night? wtf ?
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#8271607 - 06/30/15 01:30 PM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: TheRealCSnapper]
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OracerO
Post Master Sr
Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 3949
Loc: GTA
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Speak at Ryerson Business Management.
I'm a small potato. I don't come from a top business school, came out of ryerson and they have helped me out a lot. I like to say it has taught me to just get shit done.
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#8271681 - 06/30/15 02:05 PM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: TheRealCSnapper]
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OracerO
Post Master Sr
Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 3949
Loc: GTA
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Came out of ryerson of the entrepreneurship program, at the end of the year, i had a viable business and product that was close to shelving in all Canadian Tires.
I love that school. Done so much for me.
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#8271743 - 06/30/15 02:22 PM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: OracerO]
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TheRealBenzo
Jr Member
Registered: 03/09/02
Posts: 657
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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@therealbenzo (why does everyone have 'real' in their name)
On TSR someone already had "Benzo". The charlatan remains at large, but I do believe my chosen name leaves little doubt as to who is the genuine article. I probably should have just gone with something else but at that moment my ICQ was blowing up and I was 63% sure I was about to get laid via the internet for the first time (her name was Danielle, and she had a tongue ring, the math just made sense).
Remember ICQ? Me neither.
Now we both are entered into a pissing contest.
Didn't intend this. Was intending to convey that I can put something together relatively easy using existing materials (it's the same speech, I'll just have to dictate it to text and organize it in an easy to reference format).
Why can't we all get along?
Because......fuck you, you fuck. (kidding)
_________________________
"Sounds like she's carrying baggage. Keep your trunk closed. " Moof, 2003
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#8271792 - 06/30/15 02:45 PM
Re: please educate me on incorporating myself as a business
[Re: Simon_the_Pieman]
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OracerO
Post Master Sr
Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 3949
Loc: GTA
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So, i'm super busy these days.
I'm willing to meet and share information about my life story. I'm currently working at a start-up that just got bought out. Things are hectic and I'm trying to solidify my legacy (my work and policy here).
I'm near Osgood/st.andrew station. I dont have normal hours 11am-8am. Pegged with Califonia's/ San Fran time.
Came out of ryerson of the entrepreneurship program, at the end of the year, i had a viable business and product that was close to shelving in all Canadian Tires.
I love that school. Done so much for me. Now that some time has passed, how's it going?
In a nut shell.
Graded in 06-07. Became a finalist for the Biz plan competition @ ryerson that year and lost to an MBA group of guys (from Ryerson, politics...)
08/09 came, my group and i, after doing a lot of work was pretty drained, didn't have that passion, but still worked it for CDN Tire. BUT the market/economy crashed and our product was a "premium" product. We had to secure more investing, but didn't bother, because we had much more opportunity else where.
2010/ made a ton of cash from the markets. And left corporate america. Only to come back to it in 2015. Lots have happened.
OracerO i'd love meet and compare notes. im service based but always like talking about how to grow what im doing.
Anytime.
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