Page 2 of 2 <12
Topic Options
#8176355 - 04/17/15 04:33 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: Sir Ironpool]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



so -5 for not full aero, -5 for not chris, -5 for not even a road-bike.

So 1:19 is a good target after I learn the distance?

Top
#8176359 - 04/17/15 04:37 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
Sir Ironpool Offline
Sponsored by Toyota
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 71770
Loc: Long Beach, CA
 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
so -5 for not full aero, -5 for not chris, -5 for not even a road-bike.

So 1:19 is a good target after I learn the distance?


Lol, sounds legit. \:D

That's the thing I never cared for about cycling. Unless you're in a time trial, there are just too many variables that affect speed and performance.
_________________________

Top
#8176366 - 04/17/15 04:41 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: Sir Ironpool]
stickaz_old Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
the wind/terrain being the biggest. All my PR's are set under favorable winds it seems [I'm sure the same as everyone else], a solid ~2 mph variable it seems
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry
"I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso


Top
#8176371 - 04/17/15 04:45 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: Sir Ironpool]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



I guess I'm just trying to get a sense of what's reasonable.

I.e 8 min pace is running(which I can do for about 1-ish hour if my feet let me train, but I can't do for say a 1/2).



My no gym home for home:
If 8/min for running 1 hour is running, what mph for riding a bike is "cycling"

I mean anyone can hit 8min for a mile, or 20mph for a mile, but what's a good pushing pace when it becomes modestly respectable.

Top
#8176376 - 04/17/15 04:50 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
Sir Ironpool Offline
Sponsored by Toyota
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 71770
Loc: Long Beach, CA
I think maintaining 17-20 mph over rolling terrain is totally respectable and fairly "quick."
_________________________

Top
#8176408 - 04/17/15 05:13 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: Sir Ironpool]
stickaz_old Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
yea I think avg'ing 20.0 mph on a 40k TT is a bigger accomplishment in an absolute sense than say a 10K run of 8:00/miles

I'm thinking it's closer to say something like

17.0 - 17.5 mph avg is like 8:00/mi pace for an hour-ish

*my perspective is probably skewed as I do a bit better relative to my peers on the bike than I do on the run

I try to answer some of these Q's simply by looking at the data. I take a mid-packer from a tri near me and see what he did

example:
pleasanton international tri [last year], run/bike only a little hilly. maybe 2k on the bike and less than half that on the run

35-39 winner went

1:05:xx bike 40k [22.94 mph]
38:03 on the 10k [6:07/mi pace]


mr. midpacker 35-39 [#24 out of 49 finishers]
1:17:23 bike 40k [19.3 mph]
:51:50 run 10k [8:20/mi pace]

eg, the only way I get into the top half is a decent swim \:D
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry
"I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso


Top
#8176419 - 04/17/15 05:17 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



So taking your numbers and rounding to be faster (& because not doing a tri, but a solo event)

Sure seems like 20mph is pretty close to 8min/mile, gym for home. (okay, maybe 19mph)

p.s 1k of vertical is a lot on a road 10km.

Top
#8176420 - 04/17/15 05:19 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
even the mid packers are rolling disc rear wheels and carbon fiber tri bikes tho, so you have to knock a bit down [~2mph?] on their bike segments
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry
"I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso


Top
#8176437 - 04/17/15 05:38 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: Sir Ironpool]
gamby Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 40865
Loc: RI
 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom
I think maintaining 17-20 mph over rolling terrain is totally respectable and fairly "quick."


this

On a flat course, I'm killing myself to graze 20mph average over 17.5 miles, which is a regular out-and-black path I ride. Initially, I'm guessing 17-18mph will be a struggle for you, as base miles and hill training build that strength/ability up over time.
_________________________
___________________________________
gamby

still have an EM1--go figure






Top
#8176457 - 04/17/15 05:47 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: gamby]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: gamby
 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom
I think maintaining 17-20 mph over rolling terrain is totally respectable and fairly "quick."


this

On a flat course, I'm killing myself to graze 20mph average over 17.5 miles, which is a regular out-and-black path I ride. Initially, I'm guessing 17-18mph will be a struggle for you, as base miles and hill training build that strength/ability up over time.

I've got some deadflat trails along the river shore.

I'm guessing I can mange 18mph on that at least.

I probably can't hold a crouch for an hour though.

Top
#8176471 - 04/17/15 06:03 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
yea my biggest problem last year was holding a tuck for more than 15 minutes \:D
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry
"I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso


Top
#8176478 - 04/17/15 06:09 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



Actually, when should I tuck? I tend to assume that around 20mph of airspeed) it starts to make sense(safe traffic assumed). So, I'm that doof tucked on part of his commute, but so be it. There was a nasty headwind yesterday that made me hate life.
Top
#8176480 - 04/17/15 06:10 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
haha I slam in there the second I'm out of a climb and/or over ~14 mph \:D

If I detect a sufficient tailwind I'll get up \:D [kinda common on my evening commute to be chased down by a ~30 mph wind] \:D
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry
"I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso


Top
#8176489 - 04/17/15 06:24 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



Lucky you, I've got a 5-15mph head wind on the warmer days (desert breeze comes down the columbia, up the willamete. It's also warmer air(though by afternoon the ambient temp is up).

In the winter it's not there (or it's a mild tail wind), and it's not build up in the morning (not enough gradient?)

Top
#8177786 - 04/19/15 01:42 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
gamby Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 40865
Loc: RI
The headwinds around here will grind me down to 13-14mph.

This happened on the 37.5 mile ride yesterday. 19 miles out in a headwind and a slight uphill. 19 miles back at 18-22 mph, but only averaging 14.1 mph overall. Once I lose the average speed on the way out, I rarely make it up.
_________________________
___________________________________
gamby

still have an EM1--go figure






Top
#8178674 - 04/20/15 10:54 AM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: gamby]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



Supposed to be 80+ on my commute home tonight. I'm sure with a decent head wind too.


I didn't get out for a ride this weekend, there was still snow on the slopes, and too much yard work needed. And it's supposed to rain next weekend, bummer.

Top
#8178815 - 04/20/15 12:02 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
my new theory is that bike fit/aero positioning/aero goodies make up for all kinds of middle-age fitness deficits. \:D

https://www.strava.com/activities/288668934

official 40k TT split 1:15:51, or :33s over averaging 20.0 mph \:D

*not saying I have bike fit/aero positioning/aero goodies wired or anything, I'm just saying that I don't think I'm particularly fast but my bike is \:D
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry
"I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso


Top
#8178851 - 04/20/15 12:19 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



Based on your recent race times, I think you're starting to over-do the underdog thing.

Top
#8185042 - 04/24/15 12:43 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



So I rode the old bike the last 2 days (grimy rainy days).

Wow that thing is a slug! I can't beleive that I ever coaxed taht thing above 20 mph.

But, now I'm noticing the inverse. Never short of breath, but my legs feel it more. I'm wondering if I'm just spinning more on new bike or what.

Top
#8185290 - 04/24/15 02:32 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
yea I dunno I'm a spinner on my roadbike and I tend to be a crank-er on the mtb, sounds like you're doing the same

I like to keep a solid zone 2 HR going on the roadbike so I'm around 90 rpms or so \:D
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry
"I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso


Top
#8185296 - 04/24/15 02:38 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



I was stupid and didn't get cadence on new bike. (or old).

I'm guessing that's what it is now.


Could be further because the seat is a little low on road bike.

Top
#8185548 - 04/24/15 05:48 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
gamby Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 40865
Loc: RI
I don't have a cadence meter--did BITD and I'm a ~90rpm guy. That's my natural cadence and I tend to stick in that area no matter what.

Low seat height will fuck your knees over time. Don't be afraid to pull over and adjust your seat mid-ride. Eventually, you'll figure out the height that works for you.

Spinning doesn't build leg strength, it builds your ability to process oxygen. That's why pros BITD had big quads--they were pushing big gears (mashing) because they were on 5-6 speed freewheels. Now, with 11-speed cassettes, pros tend to spin more--thus, they have skinny runners' legs (Wiggins/Froome).

That said, standing in the pedals and mashing some hills will build your leg strength. You'll wear your chain out faster, but you'll build leg strength.
_________________________
___________________________________
gamby

still have an EM1--go figure






Top
#8185675 - 04/24/15 08:13 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: gamby]
nato2377 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 3422
Loc: Denver, CO
no cadence meter here either
gamby pretty much nailed it. gotta spin spin spin to win. mashing only gets so far. thats why i beat a lot of guys who only use the big ring and i race mainly in the small ring

Top
#8185836 - 04/24/15 10:41 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: nato2377]
robbbby Offline
master electrician
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 15428
Loc: Canada
It's all about having them large beastly quads. Jacked legs > winning. Mash away.
Top
#8218270 - 05/20/15 03:45 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: robbbby]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



Reading up on indoor training a little, saw this:


". If they had a power meter on the bike, they would see that pedaling at high cadences and very low or no resistance actually produces a low power output. Heart rates are high because of the lack of technique, the bouncing and flopping in the saddle and the general inability to contract their muscles quickly. Poor technique is costly in terms of calories, yet those calories don’t translate to strength, fitness, muscular endurance or aerobic endurance benefits. It would be much better to channel the effort into a higher power output by raising the resistance and slowing the legs down. As mentioned earlier, power translates directly into calories burned; heart rate is only an indirect (and often incorrect) indication of how many calories are burned in an exercise session."

Basically I'm seeing a lot of other sites saying the same thing.

In general HR/cadence definitely seem to have a connection, and that HR/watts can get skewed.
Especially if you're toward the muscular end of the spectrum(not true here, but more so than the rail thin set). Given I came from lifting/hiking, and do short commutes I'm probably not developed the fast response/control to do much cadence. Also see lack of saddle time.

The consensus is that one shouldn't over-do the cadence either, as it clearly has a point where it becomes inefficient to spin, and everybody has a diferent tolcernace. BUT, a strong rider will still develop their own range.


CN: practice my cadence, don't dwell on it.

Oh, and I've got more used to the speed/acceleration on the bike.

Top
#8218360 - 05/20/15 05:49 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
Risky Business Offline
Provides a Great Work Environment. he/him
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 44789
I have pretty thick legs and I am a masher, not because I want to, but like the above states I am not smooth enough at higher cadence. I generally average mid 70's on my rides now and that's after focusing on it (used to be lower before and I never come off the big ring). I can do up to 90 in comfort, but over that and I don't feel right.
Top
#8218390 - 05/20/15 06:30 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: Risky Business]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



Yeah, I think I'll work on my smoothness, but just assume that after 20 years of snowboarding I'm going to rely on my thighs a bit more than I should.

I've already noticed that I'm definitely feeling my hammies more on this bike(which is probably a mix of positioning and following through a stroke).

Top
#8219680 - 05/21/15 03:17 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
nato2377 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 3422
Loc: Denver, CO
im the opposite of risky...i like riding around 90-100rpms,like you said, practice but dont dwell, different.
Top
#8219785 - 05/21/15 04:10 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: nato2377]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



Turns out after some counting (stupid me cheaped out on no cadence on cyclometer).

I seem to be spinning on this bike, a lot. 90-105 range mostly.

That sort of confirms what I suspected. I don't think I was previously riding this way as much. It's odd I'm less inclined to mash on this bike. The smoothness probably encourages a bit of spinning, but I tried slowing down to say 70 and it felt unusual and burned more than I remember. apparently I've lose my strength.

Like I said, I've noticed I feel this bike more in my hamstrings and feel like I naturally have better following through than old bike.

/overthinking it, but just for shits and gigles

Top
#8219791 - 05/21/15 04:16 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
stickaz_old Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
my hammies were a little funny/tight after my last 40K/TT /gotnothing
I think it was at least partially because my seat was a little too low [~0.5"]

I dont really look at power as much of a requirement [unless you're sprinting some segment??], really just stable power delivery doesnt require much power at all, just fitness

/whatdoiknow
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry
"I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso


Top
#8219827 - 05/21/15 04:46 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered



Pretty sure my seat is a bit low too.

I should fix that

Top
#8222176 - 05/23/15 11:29 PM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: ]
gamby Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 40865
Loc: RI
 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
Pretty sure my seat is a bit low too.

I should fix that


I promise you'll get knee issues quickly if you don't. You'll also notice a nice increase in power/efficiency when you get it to the correct height.

As for the cadence thing, I literally don't think about it. I have a specific cadence that I'm comfortable with and I just tend to stick with it automatically. I'm assuming if you put in enough miles, you'll just fall into a cadence that's right for you.
_________________________
___________________________________
gamby

still have an EM1--go figure






Top
#8223519 - 05/26/15 12:22 AM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: gamby]
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5a3C2MC87g
_________________________

Top
#8223982 - 05/26/15 11:57 AM Re: New to road cycling...breathing? [Re: stickaz_old]
The Mighty BellRacer Offline
Despises overt racism
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 05/03/00
Posts: 25816
Loc: DFW
 Originally Posted By: zakcits
*with a favorable wind [eg either a tail primarily or nuetral wind] I think I could go under 1:15 on mostly flat terrain

**in aero tuck the entire way, on zipps, aero helmet, and mostly if not completely flat terrain, lycra, etc

***while feeling like this guy the entire time:
-->https://www.facebook.com/usacycling/videos/10152817649426334/


this guy fucking cracks me up, genuine LOL

self-deprecating humor perfected.

Top
Page 2 of 2 <12


Moderator:  Silock, Professor Paki 
Hop to:
Shout Box

CSi Sponsors

DiGBiC Lighters
DiGBiC Lighters
DallasColo
Dallas Colocation
ClubSi.com Shirts
ClubSi-Shirts
GameStop
Black-Friday Specials
Big Brake Kits
StopTech.Sale BBK Clearance
Brake Kits
Buy Brake Kits
EBC Brake Kits
EBC Brake Kits
BuyBrakes
Brake Kits-Pads & Rotors Sets
StopTech Brake Kits
StopTech
StopTech NZ
StopTech
StopTech Australia
StopTech
Hawk Brake Pads
Hawk Brake Pads
Samys Camera
GoPros, Cameras, Gear
Brake Specials Near Me
Brake Specials Near Me
Brake Pad Coupons
Coupon Code "hondafetish"
Porsche Brakes
Porsche Brake Upgrades
2-Piece Rotors-Civic Type-R
2-Piece Civic Rotors
Advertisement

| Brake Pads | | How To Change Brake Pads | | Drilled Slotted Brake Kits Cheap | EBC Brake Kits | Performance Brake Kits | Brake Specials Near Me | How To Replace Brake Pads