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#7957221 - 11/10/14 09:16 PM Dealer car costs and new car shopping.
robbbby Offline
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My mom is buying a new car and she asked me to go with her. I've never actually bought a new car from a dealership so i've never had to go through the negotation process with a car salesperson.
Is there any real sites that give the approximate dealer costs of cars. I found a couple on google but from what i'm reading they're far from accurate and are sponsored by dealerships to get your info.
Also, whats an acceptable percentage to pay above dealers cost?
Is freight and all the other bullshit fees negotiable or do you just suck those up after agreeing on an acceptable price for the car?

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#7957232 - 11/10/14 09:19 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: robbbby]
Choco 'Nuck Offline
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Yes, car cost canada, or unhaggle.com

Both will give you an idea of what the invoice on the car is, but they don't show the hidden kickbacks. Negotiate up from invoice, not down from MSRP.

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#7957233 - 11/10/14 09:20 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: robbbby]
c2k Moderator Offline
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http://www.carcostcanada.com

edited - TREED!~


Edited by c2k (11/10/14 09:20 PM)
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#7957388 - 11/10/14 10:29 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: c2k]
furball Offline
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Last time I did that CarCostCanada thing was in 2000...

IIRC, they say ... here's the invoice price. For invoie + $500-750 we have this specific sales guy at this specific dealership willing to do it NOW.

What they don't tell you is that 'invoice' price still has some built-in buffer from what I recall...

i.e. I faxed around the 'invoice' price, and got a couple bites to meet it, meaning those guys didn't get the $500-750... which to me implies there's buffer built-in.

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#7957602 - 11/11/14 06:14 AM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: furball]
robbbby Offline
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Thats what I mean, I read that the two sites posted above aren't accurate and is more of a way for the dealerships to bait you in. Dealerships supposedly sponsor those sites, your info is then passed along to them so they know what you think is "invoice price".
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#7957606 - 11/11/14 06:25 AM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: robbbby]
Choco 'Nuck Offline
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Like I mentioned, there are kickbacks (or incentives), whatever you want to call it that are backend loaded that the manufacturer pays to the dealer if they sell X amount of cars. You will never see this on the invoice price.
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#7957626 - 11/11/14 07:19 AM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: Choco 'Nuck]
spd-dmn Offline
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there are both advertised and unadvertised manufacturer rebates

your starting point should be invoice minus any advertised rebates


of course this depends on the model you're after... hot cars don't need to be discounted as heavily because the next buyer will come along fast.


what car?

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#7957676 - 11/11/14 08:00 AM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: spd-dmn]
Screamin Type ARGH! Offline
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 Originally Posted By: spd-dmn
there are both advertised and unadvertised manufacturer rebates

your starting point should be invoice minus any advertised rebates


of course this depends on the model you're after... hot cars don't need to be discounted as heavily because the next buyer will come along fast.


what car?


+1

yeah the dealer will always have incentives from the manufacturer for selling certain models more than others, those usually get passed onto the customer...so hopefully you're buying one of those models.

hopefully the dlr "invoice" price they're starting you with is of course lower than msrp (again will depend on the model and how 'hot' it is, or if it's clearance/etc). always try to get rebates stacked on top of one another from your starting price.

dlr's are independently owned (except benz), so you can get different invoice price per dealer. it can help to know/trust someone working at teh dealer when buying, but not always a must.

dlr's don't make a lot on new cars honestly, it's service that makes them $$$ (and parts+accessories sales). cheaper cars bring in less than higher end models of course...if i showed you what a dealer makes selling a Honda Fit you'd laugh lol.


Edited by Screamin DC2R (11/11/14 08:01 AM)
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#7958249 - 11/11/14 12:39 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: Screamin Type ARGH!]
c2k Moderator Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Screamin DC2R
 Originally Posted By: spd-dmn
there are both advertised and unadvertised manufacturer rebates

your starting point should be invoice minus any advertised rebates


of course this depends on the model you're after... hot cars don't need to be discounted as heavily because the next buyer will come along fast.


what car?


+1

yeah the dealer will always have incentives from the manufacturer for selling certain models more than others, those usually get passed onto the customer...so hopefully you're buying one of those models.

hopefully the dlr "invoice" price they're starting you with is of course lower than msrp (again will depend on the model and how 'hot' it is, or if it's clearance/etc). always try to get rebates stacked on top of one another from your starting price.

dlr's are independently owned (except benz), so you can get different invoice price per dealer. it can help to know/trust someone working at teh dealer when buying, but not always a must.

dlr's don't make a lot on new cars honestly, it's service that makes them $$$ (and parts+accessories sales). cheaper cars bring in less than higher end models of course...if i showed you what a dealer makes selling a Honda Fit you'd laugh lol.


then that's where you come in and help us out to tell us in PM which stealerships we should be buying our hondas from!
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#7958341 - 11/11/14 01:21 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: c2k]
Screamin Type ARGH! Offline
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^lol, that i have no idea brah, i don't deal with sales side. :P
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#7958388 - 11/11/14 01:42 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: Screamin Type ARGH!]
c2k Moderator Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Screamin DC2R
^lol, that i have no idea brah, i don't deal with sales side. :P


yeah sure.. wink wink nudge nudge
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#7958670 - 11/11/14 03:34 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: spd-dmn]
robbbby Offline
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 Originally Posted By: spd-dmn


what car?


Not sure yet, it's between a hyundai accent, vw golf or nissan versa. She wants a small hatch and those are the ones she liked when she went to look now we have to test drive and figure out. Whatever she gets will probably be a base model car, she doesn't care about more powerful engines and fancy gadgets. The only things she demands is manual transmission, AC and power window/locks.

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#7958957 - 11/11/14 06:58 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: robbbby]
JEFFOS Offline
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I found car cost canada was a good starting point as well.

Edit the Hyundai probably will be the most reliable.


Edited by JEFFOS (11/11/14 06:58 PM)
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#7958980 - 11/11/14 07:11 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: JEFFOS]
Risky Business Offline
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Do NOT buy a fucking VW.
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#7958986 - 11/11/14 07:14 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: Risky Business]
robbbby Offline
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Really? That is her favourite one lol.

What's the issue with them.. reliability? maintenance?

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#7958989 - 11/11/14 07:16 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: robbbby]
Risky Business Offline
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My mother in law drives a VW Jetta and I am the first person to be asked on a weekly basis "why does it do that, what is that noise, can you look at it, should I take it in"?

Yea fuck that shit, if it was a honda i wouldn't have these issues. I hate VW.

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#7958991 - 11/11/14 07:20 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: Risky Business]
robbbby Offline
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She currently drives a honda and i'd prefer if she got another but she said the fit was too small
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#7959003 - 11/11/14 07:27 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: robbbby]
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Too small? GTFO


You need to sit down and have a talk asap.

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#7959006 - 11/11/14 07:29 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: Risky Business]
Euphoricuck Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
My mother in law drives a VW Jetta
mkiv doe ?
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#7959133 - 11/11/14 09:01 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: robbbby]
c2k Moderator Offline
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 Originally Posted By: robbbby
She currently drives a honda and i'd prefer if she got another but she said the fit was too small


details on the fit?
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#7959463 - 11/12/14 06:59 AM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: c2k]
spd-dmn Offline
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when you figure out the exact models and trims you're shopping let me know what they are.
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#7959831 - 11/12/14 10:18 AM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: Risky Business]
iamfob Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
Do NOT buy a fucking VW.


I owned a 2001 GTI 1.8T for 9.5 years. Seriously nothing crazy went on the car, everything was wear and tear parts and maintenance. Maybe your MIL's Jetta 1.8T was a lemon or EUE?

This goes out to whoever complains VW is shit. dat electrical problem, Bosch parts!

I am sure Bill can talk about his MKIV Jetta ownership, that dude drives like 50K a year
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#7959869 - 11/12/14 10:32 AM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: iamfob]
LNXGUY Moderator Offline
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I don't drive shit anymore, all work from home

That being said, it's just like any other car, it's got it's quirks but with my experiences I'd always recommend one. Some people hate them, some people love them.
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#7959881 - 11/12/14 10:37 AM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: LNXGUY]
iamfob Offline
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 Originally Posted By: LNXGUY
I don't drive shit anymore, all work from home

That being said, it's just like any other car, it's got it's quirks but with my experiences I'd always recommend one. Some people hate them, some people love them.


Then you should switch from a Diesel to a Hybrid if you drive as little as Hatorade and his M3

I would buy your Jetta Wagon TDI if you put up for sale ;\)
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#7959900 - 11/12/14 10:44 AM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: iamfob]
Senor Eduardo_82 Offline
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It seems like every time we see a picture of that Jetta, it's on the back of a tow truck.
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#7959905 - 11/12/14 10:50 AM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: Senor Eduardo_82]
LNXGUY Moderator Offline
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 Originally Posted By: eddie _82
It seems like every time we see a picture of that Jetta, it's on the back of a tow truck.


That's the fun stuff though, you guys don't wanna see the high 40mpg tanks and almost 400k it's racked up.
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#7959962 - 11/12/14 11:23 AM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: iamfob]
Risky Business Offline
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 Originally Posted By: iamfob
 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
Do NOT buy a fucking VW.


I owned a 2001 GTI 1.8T for 9.5 years. Seriously nothing crazy went on the car, everything was wear and tear parts and maintenance. Maybe your MIL's Jetta 1.8T was a lemon or EUE?

This goes out to whoever complains VW is shit. dat electrical problem, Bosch parts!

I am sure Bill can talk about his MKIV Jetta ownership, that dude drives like 50K a year


It's a 2002 1.8T that she bought brand new and did all regular maintenance, it has like 165k.

The automatic tranny is the biggest issue, I've talked to Bill about it many times, it's a lost cause on this car. The transmission is a piece of shit, I will spare you the details.

A rear spring broke, HOW THE FUCK DOES A SPRING BREAK? This was like 5 years ago, is that a wear and tear item on a low mileage car that's rustproofed?

Blows coil packs every 6 months or so, piece of shit, now i've converted her to a vwvortex troll and she drives around with spare coil packs in trunk...regular maintenance right?

The interior has not held up well, wow what a piece of shit. The "leather" the cushioning, just everything is completely trashed and we are talking about a 5'1 woman that's like 110 lbs driving this.

Constant fucking changing of light bulbs, this one is my favourite honestly, regular maintenance to change fucking light bulbs monthly.

On second set of hood shocks now, shock mounts are under engineered, they keep failing, power brakes don't always work, shit rattles, glovebox doesn't close, doesn't pull as hard as it used to, I am not even going to get into that. Waiting for the car to be written off or something.

I don't even remember half of it as I told her I am not dealing with that shit again...there is a CEL always, I don't know what it is at this point.

The only positive is they are built like tanks.

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#7959982 - 11/12/14 11:36 AM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: Risky Business]
iamfob Offline
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I know the 1.8T are famous for random misfire and trigger the engine light. I have a VAGCOM and scanned the car weekly. It doesn't effect the driveability of the car and I was still getting 580-600+ km a tank on Shell 91 (55L gas tank).

The earlier model have MAF sensor and ignition coils issue. Mine was under recall by VW Canada and replaced once, it was fine for 80,000KM since the free recall. I guess I am the lucky one.

The door lock actuator and window clips were another known issue on the 99.5 to 02 model. But once you fixed it the first time with the revised unit and part, it didn't give me any problem.

As for the leather part, mine was fine. I don't know about your MIL

I was on H&R Cup kit so I barely use my stock springs and struts.

Mine was 5 speed so no issue. But I have heard a lot of stories about the crappy 4 speed auto.

I got lucky with light bulbs (replaced maybe brake light bulbs in 9 years) and hood shock (never had to replaced when I sold the car at 180K)

Again my experience is definitely different than Vas MIL and Bill. I guess I was more lucky than most MKIV owners.
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#7960020 - 11/12/14 11:56 AM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: iamfob]
LNXGUY Moderator Offline
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O1M auto trannies in the MKIVs are the worst fucking transmission on the planet And yeah, springs do break. I've never had one go but it's not uncommon. Most people drive around with them and have no idea.
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#7960099 - 11/12/14 12:25 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: LNXGUY]
Screamin Type ARGH! Offline
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miracles DO happen LOL
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#7960368 - 11/12/14 02:29 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: Risky Business]
4age Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Risky Business


It's a 2002 1.8T that she bought brand new and did all regular maintenance, it has like 165k.

The automatic tranny is the biggest issue, I've talked to Bill about it many times, it's a lost cause on this car. The transmission is a piece of shit, I will spare you the details.

A rear spring broke, HOW THE FUCK DOES A SPRING BREAK? This was like 5 years ago, is that a wear and tear item on a low mileage car that's rustproofed?

Blows coil packs every 6 months or so, piece of shit, now i've converted her to a vwvortex troll and she drives around with spare coil packs in trunk...regular maintenance right?

The interior has not held up well, wow what a piece of shit. The "leather" the cushioning, just everything is completely trashed and we are talking about a 5'1 woman that's like 110 lbs driving this.

Constant fucking changing of light bulbs, this one is my favourite honestly, regular maintenance to change fucking light bulbs monthly.

On second set of hood shocks now, shock mounts are under engineered, they keep failing, power brakes don't always work, shit rattles, glovebox doesn't close, doesn't pull as hard as it used to, I am not even going to get into that. Waiting for the car to be written off or something.

I don't even remember half of it as I told her I am not dealing with that shit again...there is a CEL always, I don't know what it is at this point.

The only positive is they are built like tanks.


LMAO funnest post ever...

I had original springs break on a honda.
This was an EF that was hmm...12 years old at the time. So I am not surprised to hear that the spring broke.

BTW:

 Originally Posted By: Risky Business


I The transmission is a piece of shit, I will spare you the details.

Blows coil packs every 6 months or so, piece of shit

The interior has not held up well, wow what a piece of shit.



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#7960586 - 11/12/14 04:14 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: spd-dmn]
robbbby Offline
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 Originally Posted By: spd-dmn
when you figure out the exact models and trims you're shopping let me know what they are.


You can help with pricing for all makes or is it just one specific brand?

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#7960729 - 11/12/14 06:04 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: robbbby]
Euphoricuck Offline
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the interior on the mkiv is pretty shit durability wise.
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#7960736 - 11/12/14 06:09 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: Euphoricuck]
spd-dmn Offline
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i have access to the basic invoice pricing for most models sold in canada

its not the 'true' price the dealer pays (as said, that would be calculated with holdback and quarterly bonuses) but its a half-decent starting point

and even if that model is not there yet, i can just apply the same margin as the next closest one



and if you do decide to go vw, then definitely shoot me a msg

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#7960837 - 11/12/14 07:13 PM Re: Dealer car costs and new car shopping. [Re: spd-dmn]
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