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#6763053 - 12/10/12 10:35 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ReplicaR]
PsychoEBPSiR Offline
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Registered: 10/06/00
Posts: 5155
Loc: Vancity,Canada
Good kill, those are nice cars IMO
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#6790297 - 12/24/12 04:42 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: PsychoEBPSiR]
ReplicaR Offline
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Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 5375
Loc: E.E.B.
So, no news on the mustang yet. I've moved it to a different shop, they found a few vacuum leaks, realigned the rockers, replaced distributor, and the car is waiting for a tune right now. Their laptop broke, so they have a queue of cars waiting for tune.

Meanwhile, I couldn't help myself, and got a small lip spoiler for the TSX. It was 45 dollars painted and shipped, I couldn't resist.

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'94 Mustang GT

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#6807985 - 01/03/13 05:17 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ReplicaR]
ReplicaR Offline
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Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 5375
Loc: E.E.B.
Well, bit of an update on the engine. So, I got the car back from the shop probably last Friday. There were some idle issues, which were not present at the dyno time, so they corrected everything for free by looking over the tune, and adding grounds next day. The car made 326whp at 5200rpm, after which the power would drop off. Torque was around 334whp mark as well. Timing is still at 29 degrees, we canít really go much further without a risk of detonation at the track, since we are blessed with shitty 91 octane in SoCal.

Impressions: Power is good. Iíve essentially gained 120whp over what the car used to make before. The new shop made the car idle a LOT better than it used to be, drivability has increased tenfold, and power deliver is very smooth. Engine is pretty smooth as well, throughout the range of revs. Before at anything over 4k, it felt like it was going to disintegrate, but now itís so silky, I canít tell where I am without looking at the tach. Iíve taken the car out for a ďspirited runĒ, with a few of my friends who have M3s and M5s. I was able to break off E39 M5 with ease, same goes for E46 M3s. Temperatures were very stable, and I was in the higher range of the revs pretty much the entire time. Brakes were affected in the negative way. Not enough vacuum, so Iím looking to HydraBoost conversion from a 96-04 Mustang.

Chasing power: The setup is not completely optimized. There is still power here and there I can pick up, but once again, it will cost me. My Edelbrock Performer 5.0 intake manifold has a range of idle to 5,500, which is why Iím dropping power at 5300 and on. Itís been ported, but only to accept a 75mm throttle body. The rest of it is still stock. Iím thinking about going to an intake manifold that supports higher rpm range to get to the rest of that power, most likely TrickFlow Track Heat. Cam is good for it, so are the heads, and so is everything else. There is still more power in timing, but we canít go there safely without mixing gas. This could be an option in future as a flip switch tune, and Iíll just take like 12 gallons of 100 to the track with me. Another thing I should have probably added was an ignition box. Anyway, for now Iím pretty happy. Trying to make it to Buttonwillow in 4 weeks, need brakes to be finished by then.
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'94 Mustang GT

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#6808086 - 01/03/13 06:10 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ReplicaR]
OnyxEros Offline
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Registered: 02/17/03
Posts: 9453
Loc: Seattle
Glad you got it back and it's running well

maybe run it like it is for a season (with hydraboost)and see if you can pick up the performance parts you need on the used market at the end of the racing season for cheap
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#6808179 - 01/03/13 07:03 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: OnyxEros]
ScottStaypuff Offline
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Glad to hear you're making progress!
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#6808629 - 01/03/13 11:09 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ScottStaypuff]
UglyValiant Offline
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with the necessary changes (proper intake, ignition, timing), sounds like 350whp would be a cinch.
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#6809483 - 01/04/13 10:47 AM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: UglyValiant]
Impulsive Online   nohc
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I'm not sure why tuning this seems to be such an issue. I would have figured Mustang tuning would be very simple.
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#6809607 - 01/04/13 11:25 AM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: Impulsive ]
ReplicaR Offline
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Registered: 05/26/06
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Loc: E.E.B.
It's not really the tuning that's an issue. It's the crap gas that we have in California. The car is actually tuned really well for as much timing as it has.
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'94 Mustang GT

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#6809668 - 01/04/13 11:42 AM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ReplicaR]
UglyValiant Offline
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Registered: 10/09/02
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When are you going to change your sig to reflect a new acceleration ratings? This I've been waiting for...
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#6809703 - 01/04/13 11:53 AM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: UglyValiant]
ReplicaR Offline
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Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 5375
Loc: E.E.B.
Thanks, completely forgot about that one. Bumped the handling too, since the front end is lighter, and bites harder.
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'94 Mustang GT

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#6840072 - 01/17/13 06:08 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ReplicaR]
ReplicaR Offline
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Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 5375
Loc: E.E.B.
So, I decided to have the car converted to Hydraboost to compensate for low vacuum from the new cam. I've had my friend's shop get hydraboost unit from a wrecked 1999 GT, and gave him the car last night. Hopefully will get the car soon, and everything is going to be groovy. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the brakes will work, especially since I never really felt like I was fully utilizing the Brembo kit that was on there. At high speed, it always felt like there is supposed to be more in there.
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'94 Mustang GT

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#6842354 - 01/18/13 02:26 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ReplicaR]
zakcits Offline
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Registered: 02/04/01
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huh thats about ~9 hp more than my 302 made with TFS heads an intake and a cam through a Tr-3550

maybe a different dyno callib tho, seems about right tho based on track performance (11.9s @ 114-ish for 3050# raceweight)

and a little less TQ


super old dyno if anybody cares. For a streetable AFR-185 headed 331, I'd hope for 400 rwhp personally. perhaps it's in the tune/installation/a mechanical issue
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#6842596 - 01/18/13 04:32 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: zakcits]
ReplicaR Offline
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Registered: 05/26/06
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Loc: E.E.B.
How much timing were you putting into it?

I'm still fairly low on timing, and that's partially because for a road race engine, it would have to operate for a lot longer intervals than a car setup for street or drag racing. My timing is still at 29 degrees, and my intake manifold is kind of a restriction, since I peak super early. I'm going to guess that there is still some power to be picked up. I'm going to go with TFS R intake manifold (2200-7200 rpm range), and possibly tune it on E85. I haven't decided if I want to do that yet, since there are only a handful of those gas stations around here.
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'94 Mustang GT

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#6842659 - 01/18/13 05:16 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ReplicaR]
zakcits Offline
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Registered: 02/04/01
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or your talking about total timing? I'm out of the scene for a while, the EEC-IV puts in (n) and I put in if you look at the top right of the chart there up to 17BTDC

I'm guessing thats like ~32-34 total timing but my brain no longer remembers the total timing the EEC-4 puts in (assuming ideal temps)

but hey man power is power, don't settle for 302 performance in that thing, jmho

I had full exhaust, and the only accessories being spun were the alt, waterpump, probably everything else was bypassed AND a pretty aggressive tiny ass crank pully, so considerable 'cheating' going on


something is really, really wrong though. You're down like ~80 HP imo
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#6842700 - 01/18/13 05:40 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: zakcits]
ReplicaR Offline
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Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 5375
Loc: E.E.B.
I think I can find another 25 in intake manifold, and cats (yeah, I still have those). I have BBK shorties, but I don't want to go full length, so that's not going to change. I still have ALL accessories on the belt, and between 29 and 34 degrees of timing, there is a lot of power to be gained.
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'94 Mustang GT

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#6842718 - 01/18/13 05:57 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ReplicaR]
zakcits Offline
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Registered: 02/04/01
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theres a 'matching' component to everything involved so careful, esp with the cam. the intake, heads, cam all have to be tuned for the same rpm window, hopefully the TFS-R intake (is that what you're going to?) doesn't actually hurt. it might. I seem to remember the old edelbrock intake being like a wunderkind intake for a baseline, see if you can find a buddy that has one, takes all of like an hour to swap

rice maths:
cats = -5
no underdrive pulley = -8
timing = -10 (??)
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#6842787 - 01/18/13 06:43 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: zakcits]
ReplicaR Offline
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Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 5375
Loc: E.E.B.
I've talked to a few shops, and they say that I'm actually right where I should be or so. Here is the dyno graph. I'm a bit concerned with the power dropping off at 5300, where it should be pulling strong to 6500. I've made a thread on Corral, where everyone proceeded to narrow it down to either valvetrain issue or/and intake manifold being too small. I've mentioned that I do have the proper valve springs, so it's highly unlikely that I'm getting valve float, especially at such low rpm. According to dyno, there is vacuum starting to form around 4k rpm, so there is definitely room to improve on the intake manifold. It is good from idle to 5500 on a stock engine. It has been ported, but only to accept a 75mm throttle body. I think I could gain something from the intake manifold swap.

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'94 Mustang GT

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#6848914 - 01/22/13 09:08 AM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ReplicaR]
FCobra94 Offline
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Registered: 10/22/01
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Loc: MD
Why did you choose to skip the long tubes? Aren't they good for another ~25whp or so? Would going long tubes -> x pipe -> hi flow cats be a big issue? (I'm assuming it won't be cheap though)
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#6849158 - 01/22/13 10:56 AM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: FCobra94]
ReplicaR Offline
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Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 5375
Loc: E.E.B.
Already have X-pipe and high flow cats (soon to be replaced by resonators). I've always heard that there isn't that much hp difference between the two, it was just the torque.
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'94 Mustang GT

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#6849273 - 01/22/13 11:42 AM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ReplicaR]
Impulsive Online   nohc
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Registered: 11/28/99
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I've heard the same - similar HP, much better torque on the long tubes.

The Performer RPM usually seemed to do the best in a lot of mag tests, but on a 331 - perhaps a bit bigger is better. I'm not sure what's out there anymore though.

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#6849367 - 01/22/13 12:21 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: Impulsive ]
ReplicaR Offline
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Registered: 05/26/06
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Loc: E.E.B.
Performer RPM is a good bit better than what I've got right now on the car. It gives you an additional 1k rpm of top end, while giving it up on the bottom. I will say though, I think I'm going to try TFS R-Series. It's been recommended by a lot of people.
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'94 Mustang GT

Acceleration.... \:\( -------+-- \:\)
Handling......... \:\( -------+-- \:\)
Speed............ \:\( ------+--- \:\)

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#6849785 - 01/22/13 02:30 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ReplicaR]
Impulsive Online   nohc
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Registered: 11/28/99
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Here's a shootout I googled on 347's. They look to be about the same numbers wise and well matched to a 331 I'd think. Plus, you can always sell your current intake to recover much of the cost.
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#6849885 - 01/22/13 03:41 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: Impulsive ]
ReplicaR Offline
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Registered: 05/26/06
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Loc: E.E.B.
 Originally Posted By: Impetuous
Here's a shootout I googled on 347's. They look to be about the same numbers wise and well matched to a 331 I'd think. Plus, you can always sell your current intake to recover much of the cost.


I think you forgot the link.
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'94 Mustang GT

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#6850458 - 01/22/13 08:25 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ReplicaR]
Impulsive Online   nohc
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Registered: 11/28/99
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Lol.

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/m5lp_0601_mustang_intake_manifold_test/viewall.html

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#6851532 - 01/23/13 11:29 AM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: Impulsive ]
ReplicaR Offline
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Registered: 05/26/06
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Loc: E.E.B.
That's so funny. That's pretty much the exact engine like I have, minus the cubes. Article says that in a fully dressed Mustang, that motor would have made 360whp, and that's on probably better gas (aka more timing), as well as long tubes, better intake manifold, and no cats. I'm not too far away from where I should be, and I am definitely looking into getting a different intake manifold at this point. Once the cats are ditched, and different intake manifold is installed, I'd really like to see a bit more range, as well as maybe crack 350whp.
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'94 Mustang GT

Acceleration.... \:\( -------+-- \:\)
Handling......... \:\( -------+-- \:\)
Speed............ \:\( ------+--- \:\)

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#6854875 - 01/24/13 05:26 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ReplicaR]
doshoru Offline
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Registered: 01/27/03
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Loc: Hotlanta
You could try removing the manifold at that point in the dyno, lol.

Halfway serious -- a 350z shop did something where in the upper RPMs, a pair of hands that had been holding down the upper manifold down, lifted it off the studs, allowing the engine to breathe freely, and power shot up. Thus, they knew it was a manifold limitation, and subsequently attempted to correct.

Custom manifold later, they had awesome power gains. 372whp on a mild cam, 3.5L.

edit: this is all if you want to "prove" it's the intake manifold, w/o actually buying/installing a new one (e.g. trial and error).


Edited by doshoru (01/24/13 05:28 PM)
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#6855153 - 01/24/13 08:12 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: doshoru]
zakcits Offline
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Registered: 02/04/01
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I dont think that would work at all on a mass-air electronically fuel injected car... it goes into limp mode and runs rich when air bypasses the mass-air sensor

my experience with EEC-IV controlled cars is that an intake manifold leak = instant shit power
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#6899398 - 02/14/13 10:59 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: zakcits]
ReplicaR Offline
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Registered: 05/26/06
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Loc: E.E.B.
Bit of an update.

The car is currently at the shop that built the engine. The new engine is leaking oil from around the rear. Brand new engine should not leak anything, I've expressed that very clearly to the shop owner. He is taking care of it, or at least trying to. After that, I'm taking the car back to the shop that did the tune. Something has happened to it, and it's running very rich at idle, idle is unstable, and it backfires through intake on sudden throttle.

After that's done, it's going to my friend, who is going to take care of the clutch cable interference, remove the air pump along with EGR, and take care of a few loose ends around the car. I've also got rid of the small bassani cats. They weren't doing anything, and the droning inside of the car was unreal. I've replaced them with 18 inch resonators, and that changed things significantly, as far as being able to live with it.

Also, my friend posted an old photo today on facebook, as part of throwback thursdays, and it kinda inspired me to dig up an old photo, and post it too. This is from May 26th 2007. My first track day. Who would have though, I would still have the same car from then.





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'94 Mustang GT

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#6899636 - 02/15/13 07:42 AM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ReplicaR]
UglyValiant Offline
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Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 6360
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
 Originally Posted By: ReplicaR
Something has happened to it, and it's running very rich at idle, idle is unstable, and it backfires through intake on sudden throttle.
My guess is either a pushrod bent or one or more of the rocker bolts backed out and is now out of adjustment (more likely)....even w/ locking nuts, it's not terribly uncommon for one or two to back out once or twice after initial assembly and running for a 100+ miles or so...
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#6900328 - 02/15/13 11:25 AM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: UglyValiant]
ReplicaR Offline
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Registered: 05/26/06
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Loc: E.E.B.
I really doubt pushrod got bent again. It happened The first week the car was running, and the hardened pushrods were replaced with chromoly. Those should be up to the job. The rockers have been relashed by the shop that did the tune, I could ask them to take a look at the rockers again, when they have it back for the tune. They are not too loud, so I'm not entirely certain that they could be loose, but it won't hurt to check, and I'll definitely mention it.
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'94 Mustang GT

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Speed............ \:\( ------+--- \:\)

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#6900892 - 02/15/13 02:37 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ReplicaR]
Impulsive Online   nohc
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Registered: 11/28/99
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What a pain. I've had issues with shops before and it turned into a nightmare. Hopefully this is not an issue in your case and everything gets buttoned tuned up soon.
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#6918875 - 02/25/13 02:05 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: Impulsive ]
ReplicaR Offline
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Registered: 05/26/06
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Loc: E.E.B.
Update 02/25/2013

Well another update for you guys. The car is still at the shop that built the motor. They are working on getting rid of all leaks. Since the transmission had to come out, I've told the owner to take the tranny to the transmission shop, and have all leaks fixed as well. It's been leaking a good deal as well, so now is as good of time as any to address that.

I've also planned a bit of weight loss. I've been trying to figure out what can be removed without being totally obvious, and I've decided that I will remove rear seats, rear seatbelts, rear floor mats, spare tire with jack, get lighter track wheels, and replace my reclining Sparco Torino II with non-reclining Sparco Evo. I've already bought the seats for 600 dollars for the pair this weekend, so the plan is partially in motion. I've also put a deposit on wheels at a shop nearby, so pretty soon I will have a set of Enkei RPF1 in 17x10 wrapped in 275 Nitto NT01s for the track. I've also researched what some of the parts I'm removing weight on the forums. Here is how it breaks down.


Rear seat removal: -40 lbs
Spare tire and jack: -32 lbs
Torino II to Evo swap: -30 lbs
Aluminum side mount brakets: +5 lbs
Cobra R to RPF1 wheel change: -16 lbs
Reinstall strut tower brace and K-member brace: +15 lbs
Rear floor mats: -2 lbs

At the end of the day, I'm looking at roughly 100 lbs weight saving in something that's not really all that noticeable otherwise to naked eye. 16 lbs of that will be from unsprung weight, which should make a good bit of difference in how the car responds to road surface, not to mention better sidewall action, and more tire on the ground. I will keep you guys updated with any other information. Here is the picture of the seats, from my hipstergram.

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'94 Mustang GT

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#6920394 - 02/26/13 11:45 AM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ReplicaR]
ReplicaR Offline
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Registered: 05/26/06
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And another thing I've decided. Since the car is going back to the tune shop, for tune clean up, I said fuck it, bit the bullet, and ordered a better intake manifold. The manifold is a Trickflow R Series, which is good from 2500 to 7200 rpm. It's been recommended by pretty much everyone on the forum, requires no porting for 75mm throttle body. This should really open up top end power.

_________________________
'94 Mustang GT

Acceleration.... \:\( -------+-- \:\)
Handling......... \:\( -------+-- \:\)
Speed............ \:\( ------+--- \:\)

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#6920488 - 02/26/13 12:26 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: ReplicaR]
UglyValiant Offline
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Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 6360
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
nice....

I take it since it's still at the engine building shop it's still missing/backfiring? Another good possibility is another vacuum leak...which maybe found/addressed by the installation of the new manifold.
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1979 Dodge Lil' Red Express Truck
1989 Shelby CSX (#500/500)
The most powerful production minivan money can buy.

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#6920495 - 02/26/13 12:28 PM Re: So, I'm finally building an engine... [Re: UglyValiant]
ReplicaR Offline
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Registered: 05/26/06
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I'll leave it to them to figure out. Right now it's getting leaks fixed. After that's complete, I will take it to the shop that tuned it, and have them install the intake manifold, and tune it again, and then drive it for a couple of days to make sure all is good.
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'94 Mustang GT

Acceleration.... \:\( -------+-- \:\)
Handling......... \:\( -------+-- \:\)
Speed............ \:\( ------+--- \:\)

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