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#66157 - 12/11/04 11:33 PM Boosted Honda FAQ Revised 12/04(Including Engine Management)
Mad Hungarian? Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/23/00
Posts: 13053
Loc: NE OH
I figured since there seems to be a lot of common questions that are asked in this forum, that sometimes even a search won’t help produce answers for, I’d create a sticky thread w/ some basic boost info. I’ve seen some really nice FAQ’s on some DSM sites that helped me when I had my talon, so I think we should have an informative one as well. SiRacer(Jason), mook (john), MayhemSi, myself and a couple of other members came up w/ these common questions and answers.

Recommended Spark Plugs

NGK BKR7E (DOHC)
Stock No. 6097
or
NGK BCPR7ES
Stock No. 3330

NGK ZFR7F11 (SOHC)

Recommended Fuel Pump

Walbro 255lph (also the same as the BBK and Holley fuel pump)
Model Number GSS342

Recommended Clutches

Clutchmasters Stage 3 / 4
(Stage 3 for lower boost street driven cars, Stage 4 for drag raced or higher boost cars.)

Recommended Gauges to get when boosting

Boost Gauge
EGT Gauge
Oil Pressure Gauge
Fuel Pressure Gauge
Wideband O2 sensor w/ A/F meter

Another recommended item that I would get is a shift light. Even though it’s not really a gauge but a simple small shift light can help you be more consistent as well as prevent you from hitting the rev limiter, which could save you from an expensive mess. Hitting the rev limiter in a vehicle w/ high compression can be disastrous.

What size socket do I need to remove the stock oil pressure sending unit?

24mm deep well socket

Where do I tap my manifold for an EGT gauge?

The best place is the number 3 cylinder runner on the manifold. If you are looking straight on at your engine bay, moving from left (at the distributor) to the right (the cam gear), it’s the second runner from the left. The probe should be placed 1-2" from the flange where the manifold/header meets the head.

http://a2.cpimg.com/image/0A/31/17230602-5d68-028001E0-.jpg

Typical EGT (in farenheit) readings at 5psi on a greddy kit w/ blue box

idle..................................................800
40mph cruising in 5th gear.........1000
75mph cruising in 5th gear.........1250
WOT in 5th gear at 75mph..........1325

***Readings will vary based on gearing, mph, temperature outside as well as your a/f mixture. The leaner you are the higher the temps. You do not want to exceed 1400 degrees farenheit because you will be melting things on a honda.

Turbo Fundamentals

How Turbos Work
the turbine
The Compressor
Intercoolers, Blow off Valves and Wastegates
Summary
Turbo Theory Questions
Turbo vs NA Turbocharged

What’s the difference between the Greddy Type 24 and Type 31 intercooler?

The Type 31 requires no modification to your front bumper support, whereas the Type 24 requires you to make a cut on the bumper support to clear the height of the intercooler.

Type 31
http://a3.cpimg.com/image/B5/B3/9179573-3747-028001E0-.jpg
Type 24
http://a0.cpimg.com/image/72/14/12491890-d7ca-028001E0-.jpg


Where do I tap in to wire up my {insert any name turbo timer here) turbo timer?

If you look under the steering column you will see a few set of wires leading from the ignition switch. There is a 7pin connector and 5pin connector

Here’s a pic from the Helm’s manual
http://a2.cpimg.com/image/60/FA/22434912-6fee-01BF0200-.jpg

White…………..12v constant
White/Black……Accessory
Yellow………….Ignition 2
Black/Yellow…..Ignition 1

What is the Greddy Blue Box

The Greddy Blue Box is greddy’s fuel control unit that they supply w/ their 99-00 si kits as well as the GSR kit (I believe). I think that the SOHC box is called the black box, but I’m not 100% sure on this. What the Blue Box does is, read map, and when it sees boost it increases the injector pulse. It’s a piggy back that you have to splice into your ecu wires. The unit was designed to be used at stock boost settings. If you up the boost the Blue Box may not compensate w/ enough fuel. Most people that have blown their motors w/ the Greddy Blue Box blew them because they were running more then stock boost. It has been said that some people have opened up and hacked the box to read more boost and compensate more, but this may be difficult if you are not knowledgeable in electronics and don’t have a dyno w/ a wide band near by.

Should I get a wastegate or a blow off valve?

Well a wastegate and blow off valve are two different things, but you need both. A wastegate is on every turbo charged vehicle, whether it is internal or external they all have em. Wastegates are what regulate the amount of boost that your turbo puts out. When a certain pressure or psi is met it bleeds the air off and doesn’t allow it to go into the charge pipe. On the "hot side" of the turbo, it keeps the turbo from spinning faster.

A blow off valve diverts excess air from going back to the turbo charger and causing compressor surge. When you are at WOT and you are boosting you have “x” amount of psi of air in your charge pipe, when your TB closes that air has no where to go but back to turbo. So to prevent this surge of air, you put a BOV on and let it vent out of the piping.

Do I need a blow off valve?

At low boost pressures it is not necessary and it may not even function properly under low boost anyhow. At higher pressures however the blow off valve is needed to release pressure in the charge pipes and intercooler between shifts or else that pressure may back up into the turbocharger and cause damage to it. Under 6psi it is not likely to be an issue but over that you really should use a blow off valve of some type. This also applies to centrifugal superchargers like Vortech and Procharger


Do I need a 3" exhaust?

Again, depending on boost level you may gain little more than noise with a larger exhaust. A 3" straight through exhaust is ideal for making more boost faster but if you are limiting boost to under 10psi a 3" turbo exhaust will only cause boost to spike fast which could cause overboosting and damage to the engine. You can easily run a standard straight through cat-back exhaust at 8psi with very little losses and it will be considerably quieter. This applies to supercharged cars as well but supercharged cars can run even higher boost with less losses on a standard cat-back exhaust.

Belt sizes for Vortech users:

CRV crank pulley > Alternator = 31.5 - 33"
Recommended belt:
Goodyear Gatorback : Part # 4PK0800

CRV crank pulley > 3.125" 10psi Vortech SC pulley w/ AC = 51.5"

CRV crank pulley > 3.125" 10psi Vortech SC pulley wo/ AC = 41.2"
Recommended belt:
Goodyear Gatorback : Part # 4PK1050

Either crank pulley > Power Steering
Recommended belt:
Goodyear Gatorback : Part # 4PK0885

MSD distrubitor cap part number for 99-00 Si = Part # 8292

How to select a compressor size to your application.

first you need to know how much air it will need to flow to reach your target horsepower. to figure that, you would use the following formula:
(CID x RPM) / 3456 = CFM

here's an example of a B16:
(97Ci x 8000) / 3456 = 225CFM

of course, if your engine is bored or stroked, you will have to compensate the CID.

the engine will flow 225CFM at 100% volumetric effeciency (VE). great, in a perfect world. actually VE is about 80-90%. so you'll need to adjust to the VE. 85% is a good number to work with. so addjust your CFM to 191CFM

next up is the pressure ratio. the pressure ratio is basically the pressure of the air going into the turbo in comparison to the pressure coming out. unless you are running sequential turbos, the inlet pressure will be the atmospheric pressure, which is an average of 14.7. so if you want 12psi, here's the formula:
(12 + 14.7) / 14.7 = 1.82:1

now you need the temperature rise. as the compressor compresses the air, it will raise the temperature. there is a formula to figure that rise! there is an ideal temperature rise to where the rise is equivelant to the amount of work it takes to compress the air. here's the formula!
T2 = T1 (P2 ÷ P1)0.283

confused yet? of course not! but lets break it down with some back spins and stuff.

T2 = Outlet Temperature in °R
T1 = Inlet Temperature in °R
°R = °F + 460
P1 = Inlet Pressure Absolute
P2 = Outlet Pressure Absolute

easier now huh?

assuming it's 80º outside and we're shooting for 12psi, your inlet temperature (T1) = 80º + 460 = 540ºR

the P1 inlet pressure will be atmospheric in our case and the P2 outlet pressure will be 12psi. atmospheric pressure is about 14.7 psi (as mentioned earlier), so the inlet pressure will be 14.7 psi, to figure the outlet pressure add the boost pressure to the inlet pressure.
P2 = 14.7 + 12 = 26.7 psi

we now have everything we need to figure out the ideal outlet temperature. now take this info into our original formula ( T2 = T1 (P2 ÷ P1)0.283 ) to figure out T2:
T2 = 540ºR(26.7 ÷ 14.7)0.283 = 676ºR

676ºR = 216ºF = ideal oulet temperature. that's a 136º temperature rise.

once again, in a perfect world, these formulas work grear. unfortunately, there's our old friend adiabetic effeciency (AE). a 136ºF temperature rise is at 100% AE. AE of the compressor is usually 65-75%. so you would use 70% for average. so to figure out the actual temperature rise from the ideal temperature rise, you can use this:
Ideal Outlet Temperature Rise ÷ AE = Actual Outlet Temperature Rise

so, 136º ÷ .7 = 194º

then you add the actual temperature rise to the intake temperature (80º) = 274º

now you can figure out your density ratio! as the air is heated, it expands and increases the volume and flow. to compare the inlet and outlet flow, you must know the density ratio. the formula for that is:
(Inlet °R ÷ Outlet °R) × (Outlet Pressure ÷ Inlet Pressure) = Density Ratio

ok, so our example formula would be:
(540ºR ÷ 676ºR) × (26.7 ÷ 14.7) = 1.46 Density Ratio

with all this crap, you can figure out what the actual inlet flow is in CFM. to do this, use this:

Outlet CFM × Density Ratio = Actual Inlet CFM

so!

225CFM × 1.46 = 328.5CFM

that's a 31% increase in CFM, which is a potential for 31% increase in power. ei, 160hp = 209.6hp. of course, that number is directly effected by intercooler, downpipe, exhaust, fuel flow, etc.

so now you know you need about 328.5CFM to reach your target of 12psi, you now can find compressor maps for different turbos to select the compressor that would best suit your needs. some maps are in CFM, and some maps are in lbs/min. to convert CFM to lbs/min, you would multiply CFM x .069.

when looking at a compressor map, you match the corrected air flow (22.7lbs/min in our case) to the pressure ratio (1.82:1 in our case). what you are looking to do is plot your graph where it would be most efficient for the turbo. anywhere below 60%, your turbo will spin entirely too fast of a shaft speed rpm and burn itself up.

here is an example of a compressor map (garrett T03 60 trim):

when you plot our numbers, they end up in the 75% range, that is good. the turbo will be a perfect match for what we want to do.

voila! you now can boggle your dates with your infinite mathmetician knowledge...

Bearing Sizing information :

Earl Laskey posted this a while back. Very good information.

Here is a chart of Honda B series bearing thickness by color. To calculate actual bearing clearance, use the following formula:

BC = IDBT – ODC – (2 x BT)

BC = bearing clearance
IDBT = inside diameter of bearing tunnel (housing bore)
ODC = outside diameter of crank journal
BT = bearing thickness

Main Bearing thickness by color
Blue 2.013-2.010 mm 0.0793”- 0.0791”
Black 2.010-2.007 mm 0.0791”- 0.0790”
Brown 2.007-2.004 mm 0.0790”- 0.0789”
Green 2.004-2.001 mm 0.0789”- 0.0788”
Yellow 2.001-1.998 mm 0.0788”- 0.0787”
Pink 1.998-1.995 mm 0.0787”- 0.0785”
Red 1.995-1.992 mm 0.0785”- 0.0783”

Rod bearing thickness by color
Blue 1.510-1.507 mm 0.0594”- 0.0593”
Black 1.507-1.504 mm 0.0593”- 0.0592”
Brown 1.504-1.501 mm 0.0592”- 0.0591”
Green 1.501-1.498 mm 0.0591”- 0.0590”
Yellow 1.498-1.495 mm 0.0590”- 0.0589”
Pink 1.495-1.492 mm 0.0589”- 0.0587”
Red 1.492-1.489 mm 0.0587”- 0.0586”

Although most people do not have inside micrometers, bearing micrometers or snap gauges, you can still use this chart when using plastigage to check bearing clearance. If you want to increase or decrease a bearing clearance, you can calculate how much of a color change is necessary by looking at the changes on the chart. Remember you can mix colors for even a more fine-tuning but it would not be wise to jump more than one color. In other words, do not mix a brown and yellow bearing together to equal a green clearance value. Just use the greens together. It is ok to mix a green with a yellow or a green with a brown. When doing your rebuild and replacing bearings with like colors, you still must check your results with plastigage to be sure. Don’t assume anything. Also remember, when swapping to aftermarket rods, throw the color codes away as they will not work anymore. You need to start from scratch to obtain your desired clearance. On the other hand, you really cannot measure accurately to the nearest .0001” without machinist quality tools, so don’t get carried away on that last one ten thousandth of an inch variance.

TIP: How to do you oil lines
This tip is really necessary for those looking to run an external oil pressure gauge or for those running a turbocharger or supercharger.

A question that comes up often is "what do I need?" and well that can vary. Honestly, to do it very clean and have everything as leak proof and "goof proof" as possible, using AN fittings and the proper stainless braided lines and fittings makes a world of difference. The difference between doing it right the first time (though doing it right may cost twice as much) and jigger rigging it can mean the difference between it working properly and engine failure due to oil pressure drop.

Many people find themselves making trips to the hardware store for brass MPT fittings that are most often used in natural gas or low-pressure fluid installs. The catch is, these products are made for household use and not specifically made for high performance automotive use. They cannot withstand large amounts of vibration and shock that is normal abuse to an engine and anything attached to it. The REAL drawback of using these hardware store parts is the fact they are not the same thread as automotive parts and can strip out fittings and/or leak under pressure which is no doubt what we want to avoid.

What you will typically do to feed these oil pressure gauges and/or turbochargers is remove the factory oil pressure switch which is basically a pressure activated switch that lights the oil pressure "dummy light" on the dash warning you in the event of low oil pressure. (This signals below roughly 15-20psi.) You will want to retain this switch as having the light along with a gauge is important, as you will likely put little attention to the gauge itself while at the racetrack or when driving hard elsewhere. To remove the stock pressure switch, you will need a 24mm socket that is fairly deep. Just pull the plug off the end and undo the switch from the block. Expect a mess of oil to come with it. Now here comes the reason you want to stay away from hardware store parts and why you need a metric adapter... Standard automotive fittings use an American NPT threaded fitting which is a 1/8" pipe thread with 27 threads per inch and is tapered to provide a better seal while Honda blocks use a 1/8" BSPT thread which is 28 threads per inch and also tapered. Although BSPT will screw into an NPT hole and vice versa, using an NPT fitting directly on the back of the block can damage the threads on the block itself which may release small metal shavings directly into the motor and that is bad. Instead, you will need a BSPT to NPT adapter fitting available from several companies including Autometer. (As pictured in brass)

So now you have removed your oil pressure switch from the back of the block (located next to the oil filter) and you have your metric adapter ready to screw in. What you will want to do is use a small dab of thread sealer which is typicaly white in color and has a paste like form. This is basically liquid Teflon, which unlike Teflon tapes, it stays in a liquidy paste form and will not clog the oil lines or any fittings in the event some of it may glob off into the oil flow. DO NOT use Teflon tape as it can block oil flow in the engine or other fittings which may result in oil pressure drop and engine failure! Apply some of the Permatex thread sealer around the threads of the fitting, smear it into the threads with your finger and wipe off any excess, then screw the fitting into the back of the block. You do not need to tighten it down very tight, just wrench it in with just enough force that it doesn’t want to vibrate loose on its own. Over tightening it may strip the threads and thus cause large headaches. (I typicaly tighten the fitting in the block until it is no longer easy to tighten with a short handle wrench. At that point I know it will not leak or vibrate off.)


(Pictured: Aeroquip 1/8" NPT to -4AN fitting *blue anodized aluminum*, 1/8" BSPT to 1/8" NPT adapter *brass*, 1/8" NPT to -3AN fitting *steel*)


Now that you have the proper BSPT to NPT adapter on the block, you can start working with standard NPT fittings from here out which means everything else should fit together nicely. (Please note: I suggest sticking to the same brand for all AN fittings and lines for everything to prevent problems.)

A quick intro to race fittings... AN stands for Army Navy because these fittings were designed for the government because they are reusable and require no thread sealer, so you don’t need to use any on the AN side of fittings. The NPT side of NPT to AN adapter fittings still requires a thread sealer. The size is indicated in fractions. A -4AN is roughly 4/16ths of an inch diameter hose. (The inner diameter of most -4AN line is more like 0.22" which is slightly less than 4/16ths.)

From your new NPT adapter, you can purchase a 1/8" NPT to -4AN fitting to run your stainless steel braided oil lines. Although you can use a -3AN line, -4AN is slightly larger and can flow more oil, plus it is less likely to clog. You will want to use thread sealer on the NPT side of the threads the same as you did on the BSPT adapter screwed into the back of the motor. Once that is ready, screw it into the adapter fitting and tighten it roughly as snug as the previous fitting. (You may need two wrenches to tighten the second fitting without over tightening the first fitting in the block.)

Now comes the tricky part. What you ideally want to do is have a matching size braided oil line with enough extra slack in it to allow for plenty of flex. Roughly 24" is more than enough room to allow for flex between the motor and the Tee fitting or manifold block attached to the firewall with the sensors mounted in that. You will need to buy the same size fittings and lines for everything as -3AN lines will not work with -4AN fittings and vice versa. You can buy these lines pre-assembled from several places or you can make your own using the proper fittings available from many performance shops. (Most shops will cut custom lengths of braided line for no extra cost. This is best as the line itself is a real pain to cut without a carbide cutoff saw.) You can attach this line to the AN fitting now located on the back of the block. You want to tighten it so that the fitting no longer moves freely. You do not need to tighten it much as the angle of the fitting itself provides the seal. Again, no sealer is required for the AN side of fittings or lines.

Now comes the part you can vary depending on what you need to do. Personally, I use one of my own "Super Manifolds" which can be used for vacuum/boost, fuel or oil lines. The "super manifold" has both 1/4" NPT and 1/8" NPT threaded holes meaning you can screw in the standard fittings without special adapters. These offer plenty of size options for different sized lines, pressure gauges, temp probes or oil feeds for turbochargers and superchargers. (Mine is pictured below with a 1/4" NPT to -4AN, 1/8" NPT to -4AN and a 1/4" NPT to 1/8" NPT adapter fitting plus the included stainless plugs in unused holes.) You CAN use a simple brass Tee fitting but run the risk of cross threading since most hardware store fittings are MPT threaded, and if you are going to run an oil feed for a turbocharger or supercharger or even a VTEC head on an LS-VTEC swap along with the pressure gauge and the factory pressure switch, you will need a Tee with at least 4 ports in it to allow one for the feed, one for each sensor and one for the output to the turbocharger, supercharger or VTEC head. (The "super manifold" I sell has 6 ports plus an input, more than enough for most any setup.)


(Pictured: Super Manifold V1 with 1/4" NPT to -4AN and 1/8" NPT to -4AN Aeroquip fittings and a brass 1/4" NPT to 1/8" NPT adapter.)


You will want to again use thread sealer on another 1/8" NPT to -4AN fitting and screw that into the tee block that you plan on using. Tighten it down with a wrench roughly the same as the fittings on the motor. Because the holes are tapered, it should tighten down and hold in place without much effort. Now you can use thread sealer on the oil pressure gauge sending unit and thread that into the tee block. And although using another adapter to revert the oil pressure switch threads to allow it to thread in properly would be ideal, I don’t believe anyone makes a reverse fitting allowing the switch to thread into an NPT hole so you will just have to put thread sealer on it and screw it in as much as you can without damaging the threads. You should still be able to tighten it so that it does not leak as long as you used thread sealer.

Now consider a mounting location for the tee block and sensors. Ideally you should mount it with screws or zip ties to the firewall or something attached to the firewall so that it doesn’t fall off and dangle as the weight could break the fitting right off of the back of the motor which would cause oil pressure loss and engine failure. Also consider the length of the wires for each sensor, specifically the stock sensor, as you cannot extend that wire easily. Now run the -4AN oil line into the finished tee block and tighten it down. Then plug the sensor wires up to the sending unit and the stock sensor. If you are running a line to the head or a turbocharger or supercharger, make sure those are properly attached and tightened. Recheck all fittings to be sure everything is tight and that the tee block is secure on the firewall with plenty of room for the oil line to flex when the engine moves. (I make a large loop with my oil line from the back of the motor to the tee block to allow for flex.)

Now that everything is connected, tight and secure, you can go ahead and test start the engine. (Please note: If you had much oil drain out when removing the pressure switch, you may want to check the oil level first and refill any lost oil.) The oil pressure light on the dash should light and then go away after a second or two as it will take a moment for the oil line to gain pressure. If for some reason the light does not turn off after a few seconds and you show very little or no oil pressure on the gauge, shut the engine off and check the connections both on the oil line and wire connections to be sure they are secure and no oil is leaking anywhere. (This would be very obvious if you have no oil pressure at all.) Depending on how the tee block is setup, you MAY need to run a small wire to ground the block to the car so that the gauges function properly. Usually the stainless braided line will be a perfectly fine ground but sometimes this isn’t the case. After checking everything, start the engine again and test for pressure. If the oil pressure light dims but you show no oil pressure on the gauge, you will want to retrace all of your wires on the gauge to be sure they are properly connected. If you show pressure on the gauge but the light stays on, the plug on the oil pressure switch may not be all the way connected.

Also, after you start the car the first time to be sure everything checks out, look at EVERY connection to be sure their are no oil leaks. Even the smallest leak over time can cause large headaches and a real big mess. If you have a leak, try tightening the connection. If that doesn't help, you may want to undo the fitting completely and apply more thread sealer or a bit of Teflon tape. If you do apply Teflon tape, be sure to leave the first few threads exposed so that the tape doesn't flake off into the oil flow.

(Pictured: Aeroquip AQP Racing Line)


Here is a listing of typical fittings you may need... (Note the * before a part name, this denotes a preferred part.)

Edit: Ok here is a list of what you will most likely need and suggested places you can buy these parts.

* Permatex Thread Sealer (0.6oz tube) should have a white pasty look to it. You can get the Permatex Thread Sealer at most auto parts stores for about $3 and the small tube will last a long time. Remember, a little bit goes a long way! You wont need to glob it on.

You can substitute that for ARP thread sealer but it is more expensive and slightly chunkier and less pasty though it doesn’t smell as bad. It is also harder to find unless you have a true performance parts store nearby. It does work very good however. This should cost about $6 for roughly a 3oz tube.

* Super Manifold V1 (made by me, as pictured above) This is the ideal option due to the number of ports and the flexibility of various sizes of NPT threads making any changes later "future proof" so you wont have to get under your car and replace it ever! $30 + shipping from me! ----> Super Manifold V1 <---- Order Here

You can substitute that for a brass MPT tee fitting from most hardware stores for about $6 BUT the NPT fittings may not thread in as well which could cause leakage and/or metal shavings to enter the oil flow. It is also limited to one feed in and two feeds out which means you can only send oil to the pressure switch and a gauge or the pressure switch and an oil feed for a turbo/supercharger or VTEC head, not all three. It also lacks any mounting holes while the Super Manifold V1 has two holes on the top ideal for small zip ties or screws.

* Aeroquip NPT to AN fittings (various sizes) Although you can use -3AN if you desire, -4AN would be ideal. These fittings can be ordered from a number of online performance parts dealers. (My personal favorites are www.SummitRacing.com and www.Jegs.com for great service with orders in the past.) The Summit Racing part number for 1/8" NPT to -4AN fittings is AER-FCM2001 and for a 1/4" NPT to -4AN fitting is AER-FCM2002. You will most likely need two AER-FCM2001, one for the engine side and one for the tee block side. If you are using the Super Manifold V1 that I offer, I would suggest using a 1/4" NPT to -4AN fitting on the manifold side so you can run the oil feed into the bottom port or one of the top two side ports. You would still want a 1/8" NPT to -4AN fitting for the engine side however.

You can also use Earl’s fittings or really any other brand NPT to AN fitting. Earls are also nice but tend to be slightly more expensive than Aeroquip. (Personally, I use Aeroquip for everything.)

* Aeroquip -4AN stainless braided line (Roughly 24" is good enough.) This is easy to work with and available in a 3 foot pre-cut length from Summit Racing for roughly $15 (Summit Racing part number AER-FCA0403). You may need a hacksaw or circular saw with a carbide blade to cut this to length if you prefer. I do believe Summit Racing can also ship custom lengths if you desire but I would suggest no less than 24" for a line from the engine to the tee block to allow for plenty of slack and enough length to be able to pull the whole thing over the engine if you need to service anything on it and about 36" for an oil feed for a turbo or supercharger. The matching fittings you will need are Summit Racing part number AER-FCM1101 for -4AN straight hose ends. These are somewhat tricky to assemble at first but once you understand how it goes together, it takes no more than 5 minutes to assemble the line from scratch. Again, you will need two hose ends for each line.

If your lazy, you can substitute that for pre-assembled -4AN lines in custom lengths from this site here ----> www.bakerprecision.com though I cant vouch for their service or quality as I never ordered from them before. They use Earl’s lines and have crimped on fittings, which are just as good, but I’ve had a crimped on fitting pull off a line before. (Personally, I don’t like mixing and matching brands of fittings and lines but it shouldn’t be a problem as long as your not mixing the braided line brand with another brand of hose ends.)

Lastly, you will want a BSPT to NPT adapter for the back of the block. This is critical and you shouldn’t screw an NPT fitting directly into the block or else risk stripping the threads, cause an oil leak or worse, metal shavings in the engine.

* Autometer brass BSPT to NPT adapter (I'd prefer steel but brass is ok.) The Summit Racing part number is ATM-2269 and you will only need one of these. It is a bit pricey at almost $11 each but you really shouldn’t go without it. I believe another company makes one that is steel instead but I’m not aware of their part number.

There you have it... That is basically what you need to make a proper oil line from the engine to an oil pressure gauge sender and/or a tee block for a turbo/supercharger or VTEC head feed.

(Pictured: Super Manifold V1 with Autometer 100psi pressure sending unit, Honda oil pressure switch, -4AN oil feed in, -4AN oil feed out to a Vortech supercharger.)


Q&A section:

Q: Why do I need braided lines, why can’t I just use rubber hose and barbed fittings?
A: Due to the pressures in the oil system, most rubber hose alone cannot withstand the high pressure and heat from the oil system. The last thing you want to fail in your engine bay is an oil line, which could cause oil pressure loss and engine failure or even worse, a fire! Braided lines can withstand over 1000psi and are safe over 450° which is clearly higher than your oil will ever reach. The fittings also screw together which is added safety to prevent a line from blowing off or leaking.

Q: Why not just use a tee block on the back of the engine and hang the sending unit and pressure switch directly on that?
A: Due to the amount of shock and vibration the engine gets on a daily basis, that added weight hanging on by a brittle brass fitting and fine threaded aluminum in the engine could cause it to break off or strip the threads and pull out while driving causing engine failure and/or a fire.

Q: Why use a billet aluminum "Super Manifold" over a less expensive brass tee fitting from my hardware store?
A: The Super Manifold V1 has the proper NPT threads on it to allow for a tight leak proof fit. It is also made from 6061 aircraft quality billet aluminum and has a durable black anodized finish to help it blend into your engine bay. Brass is also brittle and can crack over time. Plus fittings often found at hardware stores use a MPT threads that is slightly different than NPT, which can cause leaks or poor fitment. The Super Manifold V1 also has 6 ports plus an input and includes plugs for unused ports. A brass tee only has 2 ports plus an input and includes no plugs. To feed the oil pressure switch, a pressure gauge, an oil temp probe and a turbocharger or supercharger, you would need to mix and match several tee's together which makes the chances for leakage higher and buying that many different parts adds up to the cost of the Super Manifold V1 anyhow.

Q: If I do it right, how much will all the parts cost roughly?
A: You can get the Super Manifold V1 for $30 plus shipping and the rest of the parts for roughly $50-70 plus shipping online for a grand total of under $100. With that, you get piece of mind knowing you'll never have to replace any of that again and you'll never worry about an oil leak either.

Q: I've read you can get an aluminum "manifold" from another company online for less?
A: True, their is another company that sells hardware, however their manifold isn’t designed for automotive use and due to its design and shape, to run both the pressure switch, oil pressure sending unit for a gauge and an oil feed line in and an oil feed line out to a turbo or supercharger, you would have to purchase a larger manifold to allow for spacing of each device. Plus you would have to order the proper plugs to plug unused holes at an extra cost. Add it all up and you have a larger, less attractive setup that is less flexible for future add-on's, and it will end up costing nearly the same amount as the Super Manifold V1 which includes everything you need, plus the design has holes on three sides which allows for bulky sending units. (Remember those cheep 6 plug power strips you used to use for your computer? Yea, you could get like 2 transformers into it plus one regular plug for your computer. Not a good design at all! Neither is the alternative "manifold" from an online hardware retailer.)

Engine Management

Management. This is the one issue not really covered in the FAQ at this point so I'm going to try to lay out a basic framework of ideas, management options, and some of the goods and bads.

First of all, there basically two different types of fuel management available for our Hondas: Standalone and Piggyback.

Piggyback - A "piggyback" is a tuning system that works by manipulating sensor signals too and from the factory ECU. These systems are typically less expensive then the standalone systems, but do not control fuel and timing as well and therefore are not as safe and reliable to run. This is because a piggyback system is still relying on the stock ecu and its fuel and timing maps as a baseline. Though these maps are great for controlling the car without boost, they are not prepared for the introduction of more air into the motor. In fact, if your stock ecu reads positive pressure, it goes into limp mode. Stock timing maps are very aggressive especially in part throttle driving and since the piggyback systems are bound to the stock ecu you end up running considerably more timing then you normally would want with boost. This can lead to our evil friend we are trying to get rid of, detonation.

Probably the most common piggyback system is probably the Apexi AFC unit. This has been in the honda boost scene for quite some time now. Some people run it with an FMU and a check valve system to prevent the ecu from seeing boost while others run "the hack" which hides the boost from the ecu by using very negative settings. The afc is relatively easy to install and pretty easy to use. See above for downsides to the piggyback systems.

Other common piggybacks include the greddy blue box, the smc, and the greddy e-manage. The blue box used to come with the greddy turbo kits but has been replaced with a pre-programmed emanage system. The emanage is very similar to the afc in its tuning abilities while the smc unit uses knobs to tune ranges of fuel and the blue box is untunable.

Standalone - a tuning system that allows full control of both fuel and timing. They will allow you to more finely tune both of these to net the most power as well as making the vehicle much more reliable. They can read positive intake pressure (piggybacks can't) and can even use upgraded map sensors such as the 3bar (can read up to about 30psi of boost vs the 11psi of the stock sensor). There are many options in this area, so I'm just going to really get into the few that seem to be the most common and just generalize about the others.

Ok, first up is the Hondata unit. Hondata combines an obd1 ecu with their chip/box and software. This combination of designs creates a great system. Because it is based on a honda ecu, it typically has fewer quirks when it comes to making the car run smoothly and cleanly right out of the box. They offer two setups right now called the s100 and the s200. The s100 is a more basic unit that is designed to be tuned by someone else. It doesn't have some of the capabilities of the s200 such as datalogging, launch control, and full throttle shift. Most people will never use these options if the system is tuned by someone else anyways, but on to the s200. The s200 has a little blue box that sits outside of the ecu that contains ports to plug in a laptop for datalogging as well as the inputs for a clutch switch to take advantage of the extra features. To run Hondata, you must have an obd1 ecu (p28 is preferred) and have it socketed to accept programmed chips. You will also need an adapter harness to convert from obd2 to obd1 or you have the option of buying a presocketed p28 ecu from hondata with the obd2 connectors right on the box (very pimp). The advantages of the hondata are basically that its a tried and true solution from a company thats been around for a while in the honda business. There are many tuners who are familiar with its software and its software is very full featured (Real time tuning, two completely separate fuel maps for the high and low cams, etc). It has the same features as much more expensive units with less cost. You will also need some bigger injectors as w/ most units. A lot of honda owners use the DSM 450cc injectors. On to the next option!

Uberdata. What can I say about Uberdata. Uberdata is basically a piece of software that some people decided they would start to write because they didn't want to pay for hondata. They figured if Hondata can hack the obd1 code and do things to it, so can they, and they did. Uberdata (at least in its current state) is like a continuously beta tested piece of software. The software is a bit quirky and doesn't have all the features of the Hondata, but it seems to be the new wave with people on a budget because its basically free. You need the same things as for the hondata (obd1 ecu socketed and adapter harness) as well as a laptop,a chip burner, and a wideband 02 of some sort and you can be on your way to tuning your own vehicle. This is perfect for the complete budget racer and even with its quirks is MUCH better then running a piggyback. They don't have any official support, but their forums are good since the programmers are frequently on them. The system is designed for people who don't mind investing a little more time in the system to save a few bucks and have the DIY flavor. They don't yet support real time tuning and a few other things, but they are adding features constantly and may eventually have the same features as hondata does.

AEM EMS. This is the only standalone on the market for the honda (that I know of) thats truly designed to be plug and play. It already has the connectors for obd2 on the end of the box and with a basemap loaded onto it should be able to get the car running relatively quickly. The software is very full featured and there are also alot of tuners familiar with this unit. The software is also relatively easy to use and has some neat features like a wideband auto-tune feature (though I've not heard that it works that well) and the ability to have progressive boost control based on speed and gear, etc. Its goods include that is full featured with everything you could ever want out of the box and its ability to be plug and play. Its downsides are probably that its considerably more expensive then the above two options and doesn't really have enough extra features to justify the difference. It also shares a single map for both high and low cam fuel/spark values (for those self tuners this will make sense).

Ok. After this point, the management gets a little bit more serious. These systems typically require a custom wiring harness and a tuner who really knows what they are doing to create a basemap to even get the car running. They are typically much more expensive and have features most people have no idea about. These systems include Accel DFI, F.A.S.T., MoTec, haltech, and probably a bunch I am too tired to list right now. These systems are very powerful and allow for the most precise tuning thats needed on race cars, etc. Though some people do run them on street cars, they don't really have a huge advantage over the simpler systems above in this environment.

Ok... this is all for now, but I'll be adding a fuel section to this pretty soon including injectors, fmus, fprs, etc. Now for a few disclaimers and random information. First of all, if you tune your own car and you don't know what you are doing, don't blame me if it blows up. All tuning should be done with a good quality wideband o2 sensor (plx, techedge, innovative, fjo, etc). THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR GOOD TUNING. A well tuned car on a standalone will make more power, be more driveable, be more efficient, and be much more reliable then an untuned car or a car using a piggyback. Also, a basemap (even if its a similar or identical setup) is not a tune. It is a place to start from and a way to get the car running so you can actually tune it properly. If you don't see the value in getting this done properly, just remember that with a boosted honda you can only have two of the following:

Cheap Fast Reliable

If your answer isn't here, try the search feature to see if its been covered and then ask away in the forum. Thanks!


Edited by CsabaH (02/14/05 02:21 PM)

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#66158 - 12/12/04 12:47 AM Re: Boosted Honda FAQ Revised 12/04(Including Engine Managem
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19083
Loc: West By God Virginia
Looks good bro....

*thumbs up*

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05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq

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#66159 - 12/12/04 02:05 AM Re: Boosted Honda FAQ Revised 12/04(Including Engine Managem
cua0 Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 17263
Loc: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
wow, awesome writeup, except that the $.25 digital prints on the linked images. should rehost them on photos.napalm.net
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#66160 - 12/12/04 09:43 PM Re: Boosted Honda FAQ Revised 12/04(Including Engine Managem *DELETED*
ShaneSestito Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 403
Post deleted by ShaneSestito

Edited by CsabaH (12/15/04 10:44 AM)

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#66161 - 12/15/04 03:26 AM Re: Boosted Honda FAQ Revised 12/04(Including Engine Managem
cua0 Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 17263
Loc: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
c'mon casbah get on it man!
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#66162 - 12/15/04 10:44 AM Re: Boosted Honda FAQ Revised 12/04(Including Engine Managem
Mad Hungarian? Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/23/00
Posts: 13053
Loc: NE OH
Ninja Edit
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#66163 - 02/09/05 03:46 PM Re: Boosted Honda FAQ Revised 12/04(Including Engine Managem
jmorgan387 Offline
Newbie


Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Texas
nice write up
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#66164 - 03/31/05 02:02 AM Re: Boosted Honda FAQ Revised 12/04(Including Engine Managem
cua0 Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 17263
Loc: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
i think some more newbs need to see this so i'm going to give it a whack to the top of the board.

*whack*
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#66165 - 04/01/05 09:15 PM Re: Boosted Honda FAQ Revised 12/04(Including Engine Managem
shane two Offline
Member


Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 837
Loc: South Valley
Quote:

we now have everything we need to figure out the ideal outlet temperature. now take this info into our original formula ( T2 = T1 (P2 ÷ P1)0.283 ) to figure out T2:
T2 = 540ºR(26.7 ÷ 14.7)0.283 = 676ºR




What am I doing wrong, .283 x 540 x ((14.7+12)/14.7) = 152.82 x 1.816 clearly doesn't equal 676. Is there something i'm missing about the *R? Thanks.
_________________________
"My Si, when it was stock was a low 15 second car..."

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#66166 - 04/14/05 07:33 PM Re: Boosted Honda FAQ Revised 12/04(Including Engine Managem
HerbieSIR Offline
Newbie


Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 11
Loc: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Awesome write up.

But I have a question that my search's wont seem to turn up.

How much Horsepower will the Stock B16A2 bottom end hold. I know for serious horse power you should sleeve and forge the bottom end. But I am looking for a faster civic si, not a crazy one.

So if anyone can shed some light. It would be appreciated.

thanks

Rob
_________________________
2000 Honda Civic SiR

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#66167 - 05/03/05 08:48 PM Re: Boosted Honda FAQ Revised 12/04(Including Engine Managem
Blue_Shadow Offline
Newbie


Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 6
Loc: Somewhere in CA
Hey guys I posted the following on other Honda sites and I figured I'd copy it here and share it with you guys too.

Airflow velocity for different intercooler piping diameters (2.0", 2.25", 2.5", 2.75", 3.0")

In the last few weeks I've seen several posts on whether it is ok to use 2.5" or higher piping, or if somebody could use their 3" ITR AEM CAI as a charge pipe. I tried to help all of them best I could, but just a short while ago I helped another H-T member out with a similar question. I searched online and used a flow calculator to help me figure out the airflow velocity for a given area and cfm. The site I used is THIS ONE. As you guys can see it has the area in length times width instead of PiRsquare which is the area of a circle. I took the area of each pipie diameter and used the equivalent area of a square and used those as my length and width. I made it simple and just took the area of the circle and divided by 2. The resulting number was used as my length and 2 was used as my width.

Your actual results may vary (ie when you add an IC) so just use my numbers as sort of a bench mark to compare different piping sizes. One thing you guys will notice is that none of the velocities goes above 304 MPH or 0.4 mach. According to Corky Bell, Maximum Boost pg 61, 304 MPH or 0.4 mach is the point at which airflow meets increased resistance (drag) and flow losses are experienced.

Anyways here are the numbers I came up with. The velocities are in miles per hour and mach, and the flow rates are in cfm. Measurements for the piping are in inches.

0.4 mach = 304 MPH

2" piping
1.57 x 2 = 3.14 sq in
300 cfm = 156 mph = 0.20 mach
400 cfm = 208 mph = 0.27 mach
500 cfm = 261 mph = 0.34 mach
585 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach


2.25" piping
3.9740625 sq in = 1.98703125 x 2
300 cfm = 123 mph = 0.16 mach
400 cfm = 164 mph = 0.21 mach
500 cfm = 205 mph = 0.26 mach
600 cfm = 247 mph = 0.32 mach
700 cfm = 288 mph = 0.37 mach
740 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach


2.5" piping
4.90625 sq in = 2.453125 x 2
300 cfm = 100 mph = 0.13 mach
400 cfm = 133 mph = 0.17 mach
500 cfm = 166 mph = 0.21 mach
600 cfm = 200 mph = 0.26 mach
700 cfm = 233 mph = 0.30 mach
800 cfm = 266 mph = 0.34 mach
900 cfm = 300 mph = 0.39 mach
913 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach


2.75" piping
5.9365625 sq in = 2.96828125 x 2
300 cfm = 82 mph = 0.10 mach
400 cfm = 110 mph = 0.14 mach
500 cfm = 137 mph = 0.17 mach
600 cfm = 165 mph = 0.21 mach
700 cfm = 192 mph = 0.25 mach
800 cfm = 220 mph = 0.28 mach
900 cfm = 248 mph = 0.32 mach
1000 cfm = 275 mph = 0.36 mach
1100 cfm max = 303 mph = 0.40 mach


3.0" piping
7.065 sq in = 3.5325 x 2
300 cfm = 69 mph = 0.09 mach
400 cfm = 92 mph = 0.12 mach
500 cfm = 115 mph = 0.15 mach
600 cfm = 138 mph = 0.18 mach
700 cfm = 162 mph = 0.21 mach
800 cfm = 185 mph = 0.24 mach
900 cfm = 208 mph = 0.27 mach
1000 cfm = 231 mph = 0.30 mach
1100 cfm = 254 cfm = 0.33 mach
1200 cfm = 277 mph = 0.36 mach
1300 cfm max= 301 mph = 0.39 mach
_________________________
-1989 Ford Probe GT (stock, pos) **SOLD** -1999 EBP Civic SI (modded) **SOLD** -2001 EBP Prelude Base (almost stock) **SOLD** -1993 VR RX-7 R1 (modded, 280 RWHP) **RIP** -1991 Red CRX DX (turbo B18C in the works) -1990 White CRX DX (stock)

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#66168 - 06/25/05 08:58 AM Re: Boosted Honda FAQ Revised 12/04(Including Engine Managem
BlueShadow Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 03/21/00
Posts: 430
Loc: somewhere in California
CROME ENGINE MANAGEMENT

quote from www.pgmfi.org
Crome (Cui's ROM Editor) is ROMEditor that John Cui wrote. Its main feature that differentiates itself from other ROMEditors is that it supports the use of Java Script to control it and implement new features. The Crome Script API allows you to extend the capabilites of the editor with relative ease. People have already written many scripts for Crome, most of which can be found on the PGMFI Source Forge page.


Crome is available in 3 levels...CromeFREE which is free, CromePRO which is $149 and has several added features, and CromeDEALER which can be used commercially to make money and has several features available only to CromeDEALER. Some of the features that CromePRO has which are worth mentioning are as follows: integrated datalogging with replay feature, knock logging, and auto-tune (few bugs reported). A few other notable features are in the making such as live auto tuning. Crome is also very user friendly, and setting it up for real time tuning with Ostrich and datalogging is very easy.

For more information on Crome's features click the link http://forum.pgmfi.org/viewtopic.php?t=4383


GENERAL ECU CHIPPING INFO

Here is a list that I have posted several times which covers the basic pieces of equipment you'll need for DIY ECU chipping and tuning. You'll want to have a laptop to use in the car or at least be able to borrow one from a friend. The prices below do not include shipping and handling.

BARE ESSENTIALS
$$$ - laptop
$15 - ECU chipping/socketing supplies: moates.net "UBER 1" kit
$25-$75 - ECU socketing: moates.net does installation services as well as others on the net
$55-$85 - EPROM burner: ebay.com "Willem Enhanced" or moates.net "BURN 1"
$10-$45 - datalogging cable: Nokia or most cell phone cables, superdroids cable, moates.net Hulog

That covers the basics...all you need are some larger injectors and a fuel pump that can support your power goals. You can download CromeFREE or Uberdata and use those to change fuel, timing, and other options like VTEC x-over, disable O2 sensor and much more. You ECU can be made datalog-capable with the addition of a cable to your ECU's CN2 port. You can use a Nokia cell phone cable, any datalog proven cell phone cable, a superdroids cable, or the moates.net hulog. Before getting your ECU chipped find out what datalogging cable setup you wantto go with. Have the person socketing yoru ECU solder in the wiring or pin header into CN2 at the same time the ECU is being socketed. Just make sure you tell them what wires go to which CN2 pin location.

OPTIONAL ITEMS
$300-$330 - wideband setup: either a Innovate LM1 or PLX300 (DO NOT get a Zeitronix Zt-2).
$175 - Ostrich emulator: allows for real time tuning
$149 - Crome users upgrade from CromeFREE to CromePRO

The wideband is a good thing to have if you plan on tuning your own car. You can either buy one or borrow one from a friend, or just use the one that your tuner has atthe dyno shop. You'll want to stay away from the Zeitronix due to the nature of it's O2 sensor voltage which is parabolic as opposed to other wideband types which are linear. This difference makes the Zeitronix hard to setup for use with Crome and Uberdata, which is why they are still not supported by either one. The Innovate LM1 has it's own datalogging software. This is good if you want to use CromeFREE which does not have integrated datalogging (CromePRO does though). You may still have to buy a few pieces of hardware to be able to use the LM1's datalogging software. The PLX 300 does not come with any datalogging software so you must use it from within your EMS. AFAIK you wont be able to use the PLX300 with CromeFREE since that level of Crome doesn't have datalogging. IMO the $149 I spent to get CromePRO was well worth it to be able to datalog and auto-tune with Crome.


Edited by BlueShadow (06/25/05 06:27 PM)
_________________________
-1989 Ford Probe GT (stock, pos) **SOLD** -1999 EBP Civic SI (modded) **SOLD** -2001 EBP Prelude Base (almost stock) **SOLD** -1993 VR RX-7 R1 (modded, 280 RWHP) **RIP** -1991 Red CRX DX (turbo B18C in the works) -1990 White CRX DX (stock)

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#9142377 - 09/27/17 05:44 AM Re: Boosted Honda FAQ Revised 12/04(Including Engine Managem [Re: BlueShadow]
lzm Offline
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#9160959 - 10/17/17 05:35 AM Re: Boosted Honda FAQ Revised 12/04(Including Engine Managem [Re: ]
Gen Offline
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Registered: 10/17/17
Posts: 34
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#9185058 - 11/13/17 05:07 AM Re: Boosted Honda FAQ Revised 12/04(Including Engine Managem [Re: ]
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Registered: 11/13/17
Posts: 37
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