#7198240 - 07/25/13 11:27 AM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: UglyValiant]
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hustler
Post Master Sr
Registered: 01/09/00
Posts: 6095
Loc: Seattle, WA
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yeah sorry I went MIA, I dropped the ball there. I will post some graphs and numbers to compare for you guys to quarterback with when i get the specs for the new cam 
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#7198985 - 07/25/13 05:32 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: hustler]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7093
Loc: E.E.B.
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Don't even worry about it. Thank you for looking into cam specs. I'm really looking forward to seeing what kind of performance I will be able to get with that cam in my motor.
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'94 Mustang GT Acceleration....  -------+-- Handling......... -------+-- Speed............ ------+---
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#7199397 - 07/25/13 11:33 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ReplicaR]
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hustler
Post Master Sr
Registered: 01/09/00
Posts: 6095
Loc: Seattle, WA
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What is the compression on the motor. Cam specs look like its being run straight up right? You have small tube shortys and mufflers too right? Here is preliminary with 10.5 compression
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#7199436 - 07/26/13 12:54 AM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: hustler]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7093
Loc: E.E.B.
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Hmm, seems like the cam makes power down lower, but not very well up top. How accurate would you say this software is? The gap between 282 and 304 is a lot larger on my dyno, but I did also switch to a different intake manifold, and ditched the cats.
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#7200205 - 07/26/13 12:12 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: hustler]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7093
Loc: E.E.B.
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So, you don't think I'll be able to break 350whp mark?
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#7204546 - 07/29/13 01:59 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: hustler]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7093
Loc: E.E.B.
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It's true, that I'm still running full accessories, and shortie headers. I have no cats on the car anymore, and Bassani mufflers, which are pretty much a straight through muffler design. I have seen a few 331 builds, and it would seem like most of them are close to putting that kind of power down. What really didn't stack up to me, is how did I end up losing power by going to better components. I guess time will only tell what's going to happen with this motor, and how much power it will make. I'm really hoping that the cam will pick up peak power as well, and hit that mark finally.
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'94 Mustang GT Acceleration.... -------+-- Handling......... -------+-- Speed............ ------+---
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#7209361 - 07/31/13 04:53 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: hustler]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7093
Loc: E.E.B.
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I'm on 3.08:1 gears, part of that is because I need the range on some tracks. This would be a different case, if I had a useable 5th gear, but I don’t, so I have to keep the rear end ratio at what it is, and drive it like a 4 speed. I’ll see what the powerband will be like after it’s all done, maybe I’ll get something different then, but probably not for a while. I did not even bother driving the new combo around, since I was not pleased with the result at all. As for the intake, almost everyone on Corral recommended a Trickflow-R. The runners aren't that much shorter honestly, and hopefully this new custom camshaft will make the best of what I've got on there now.
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'94 Mustang GT Acceleration.... -------+-- Handling......... -------+-- Speed............ ------+---
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#7211211 - 08/01/13 01:59 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ReplicaR]
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hustler
Post Master Sr
Registered: 01/09/00
Posts: 6095
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I understand your dilemma. That car would wake up though with some more gear. Think after you get this last round done I would fix the T5 to get 5th back and start figuring out what rpm you can tolerate for cruising in 5th by testing 4th. I found I could tolerate 3k rpm with a few c4 3 speed setups but everyone is different.
I will admit I've never tried to build a powerful naturally aspirated 8.2 deck motor, I was always going the blower route. The market is saturated with head and intake offerings though for these motors, so there are a lot of arguments as to what works best for 331-347 strokers. But you have to weed through the BS to get recommendations based on context. With the new cam, I would give it a whirl and make sure there is no premature distributor gear wear and that its aligned etc. Tuning for WOT is easier than drive-ability so make sure the thing drives well on part throttle when you do get it tuned.
http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-5-8-engine-tech/506739-tfs-r-intake-331-too-much.html
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#7211475 - 08/01/13 04:00 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: hustler]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7093
Loc: E.E.B.
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Oh, T5 is not broken and 5th is fine. The problem is that gear ratio on 5th gear drops me down rpm band significantly, going from 1.00 to .68. As far as racing goes, it is unuseable, which is why I have to treat this transmission for what it really is, a 4 speed with overdrive 5th. If I had a T56 with 5 gears for racing, I would have geared the car as soon as I would have seen what the powerband is like.
As far as partial throttle tuning goes, I told them very specifically that I want a car that drives well, so keep it for longer time, drive it around, and give it back to me when it drives well. Based on the cam specs, Valiant believes that the profile design has a lot of thought about driveability and working well with fuel injection. I kinda doubted the intake manifold selection myself, but almost everyone mentioned either going with this one or SystemaxII, which I hear is good for high flow strokers as well. You said that the intake manifold like that would lose me torque. Wouldn’t that be bottom end, or is it across the band?
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'94 Mustang GT Acceleration.... -------+-- Handling......... -------+-- Speed............ ------+---
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#7212531 - 08/02/13 09:01 AM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ReplicaR]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7093
Loc: E.E.B.
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The cam is finally shipping today. Weeeeee!
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'94 Mustang GT Acceleration.... -------+-- Handling......... -------+-- Speed............ ------+---
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#7213607 - 08/02/13 05:40 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ReplicaR]
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hustler
Post Master Sr
Registered: 01/09/00
Posts: 6095
Loc: Seattle, WA
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i just found your thread on corral, kudos for sticking it out. One thing you should do is calculate compression. If you know what pistons you have, the heads are box stock right, so you should know the cc on the chambers. Do you know which head gaskets you have? I can help you calculate the compression as that still seems like an unknown based on that thread. Did the block get decked when they rebuilt the block? If so do you know how much was shaved? Might be in the build sheet. If they had another machinist do, you might be able to find that out. There may be nothing you can do outside of having the heads shaved to bring up compression and or thinner HG, but at least you will know what expectation of power you could achieve with the new cam. As I'm building my 357 I'm realizing how important compression is on a naturally aspirated motor. I see guys pushing the limits of a 11.0:1 aluminum headed 91/92 pump gas motors. Compression means that much more power. There is a reason I haven't finished buttoning mine up yet either, degreeing a cam is very important. Make sure these ding dongs do it right. I assume FTI spec'd the cam to be installed straight up, so they should have a harder time fu$%^#ing that up. Keep us updated and if you can get me specs on head chamber cc, gasket thickness, bore size, piston cc whether they are flat tops, have reliefs, or are domes. Guessing by the estimated compression they have reliefs or are dished.
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#7213676 - 08/02/13 06:32 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: hustler]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7093
Loc: E.E.B.
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I’ve checked the compression already. Here is the info I got. According to build spec sheet, the block was decked .017”, and then piston sits 0.015” inside the bore. The heads are off the shelf AFR 185, which have 58cc chambers. Block was bored .030 over, which makes it a 4.030” bore. Gasket has a 4.080” bore, and 0.040” compressed thickness. Pistons are flat top with 5cc valve relief. Stoke is 3.25”. Based on all of that, and using Summit calculator, I’ve figured that I’ve got a 10.1:1 compression motor.
It looks like FTI did want this cam installed straight up. I don’t think they will screw up degree of the camshaft while installing it. I’ll let you guys know once the motor is fired up, and tuned. For now this is all I’ve got.
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#7213917 - 08/02/13 09:13 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ReplicaR]
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UglyValiant
Post Master Sr
Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 6364
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
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In MOST cases, custom cams should be installed straight up. Basically the cam already has three degrees of advance already ground in. Most cams have advance ground into it which closes the valves earlier (for a given amount of intake duration), building increased cylinder pressure vs same size cam w/o advance.
To get the number of degrees advance ground INTO the cam, simply take the LSA and subtract the intake lobe centerline. The difference gives you the number of degrees the cam is "advanced" when installed straight up...which in this cam's case, is 3 degrees (4 is pretty typical).
ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL, I am not sure that the custom cam and compxe you had before would make a ton of difference powerwise...but I am sure that what you had before and what you'll have now won't be equal in terms of build quality/attention to detail, meaning, you'll probably find a bit more power.
I say with a fair degree of certainty that you'll be happy with the results in terms of performance...
In this case, as I had stated earlier, I really do think a lot of thought was put into increasing it's driveability...similar size to the compxe with reduced overlap bodes well for you imo.
I would love to see you eventually go with longtubes though....
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#7221434 - 08/07/13 08:19 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: Impulsive]
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hustler
Post Master Sr
Registered: 01/09/00
Posts: 6095
Loc: Seattle, WA
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#7221769 - 08/08/13 12:45 AM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: hustler]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7093
Loc: E.E.B.
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Dude, that thing is retarded fast. Also, camshaft has been delivered to the shop. They are going to start on it on Tuesday.
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#7241335 - 08/19/13 01:34 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ScottStaypuff]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7093
Loc: E.E.B.
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I've been told that it will be ready to go by the end of this week. We'll see. Last week they didn't do anything.
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#7253537 - 08/26/13 01:55 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: hustler]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7093
Loc: E.E.B.
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Just called the shop to find out. The motor is all back together. They are about about swap the distributor gear back to steel, since the cam is billet. After that, they will drop it in, and fire it up. Should be ready to go either thursday or friday.
They also did a clearance check for valve to piston distance, and there was plenty of space, over 0.100" of an inch.
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#7253763 - 08/26/13 04:20 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: Impulsive]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7093
Loc: E.E.B.
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No, the opposite. Cast cam = bronze gear. Billet cam = steel gear.
Dyno day: I don't know, and I'm not going to guess this time how much power it makes. Tired of making estimates, and getting disappointing results.
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#7254057 - 08/26/13 07:05 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ScottStaypuff]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7093
Loc: E.E.B.
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lol, too much... highly unlikely.
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#7255851 - 08/27/13 07:42 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: ScottStaypuff]
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hustler
Post Master Sr
Registered: 01/09/00
Posts: 6095
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Billet steel core with pressed iron gear can use sadi cast distributor gear. Most race billet cams have a tempered steel cam gear which requires bronze or composite which do wear quicker.
So I had some time tonight and ran everything through Performance Trends Engine Analyzer. I used a cfm from a 75mm Accufab TB? Not sure what you have. Are you using a clutch fan or electric. These numbers are with electric. Had a harder time guesstimating cfm of your 2.5 exhaust. what is the average length on your shorty header? 1 5/8 diameter i presume on that is what i could find. What size injectors, I used 36lb'ers
FTI Cam
Comp XE282 Cam
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#7256101 - 08/27/13 10:14 PM
Re: So, I'm finally building an engine...
[Re: hustler]
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7093
Loc: E.E.B.
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Electric fan is correct, thank you. TB is a 75mm BBK, so I can only assume that Accufab is pretty much identical. I'm curious to see what the car makes.
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