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#8830795 - 10/26/16 05:36 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 43598
Loc: Oregon
 Originally Posted By: robbbby
ugh i'm so torn.

Just noticed the drivetrains are different as well

Tarmac 52/36 with 11/28 cassette
Diverge 48/32 with 11/32 cassette

I don't want mtb gearing on the diverge. This is swaying me back to the tarmac but bothers me I cant ride the gravel trails we have out here.


That's mountain bike gearing?

Let's talk this out. The taller tire does counteract some of that. So do the math and figure out the gear inches.


I'm pretty sure thats 30mph+ and 90rpm. It's a touring bike, so if you occasionally get up to 35mph you spin a little, or you coast? Now if you're racing where you really want a certain RPMs to sprint? Maybe I see the problem

But Let's not act like it's hard to change gearing on a bike.


I wouldn't say a tarmac CAN'T ride gravel, but with 23mm it won't be as much fun. Between stiff tires and short-wheel base, and fast steering it'll feel like more work. But CF can be dampened (not sure if you're looking at AL or CF diverge since it comes in both).

But let's look at the low gearing for when you're off-road. My quick math is the diverge has 25% lower bottom gearing. That' HUGE if you're climbing long hills, with gear, or offroad)

Realistically go test ride both.


Edited by dirtyS13drifta (10/26/16 05:40 PM)
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#8830810 - 10/26/16 05:49 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2667
Loc: Denver, CO
 Originally Posted By: robbbby
ugh i'm so torn.

Just noticed the drivetrains are different as well

Tarmac 52/36 with 11/28 cassette
Diverge 48/32 with 11/32 cassette

I don't want mtb gearing on the diverge. This is swaying me back to the tarmac but bothers me I cant ride the gravel trails we have out here.



You can ride gravel on the tarmac, but itll suck. ive done gravel rides on my full carbon jamis with 23mm slicks. it sucked though. also you want a little easier gearing because you will spin the rear if you mash up hills to much.
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#8830974 - 10/26/16 07:45 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
robbbby Offline
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Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 14861
Loc: Windsor, Ontario
 Originally Posted By: Radish_duex
at the other end of the spectrum I have nowhere near enough power/fitness to use the standard crank on my TT bike lol cry

*maybe I'll get a fat tailwind in a race next year

https://www.strava.com/activities/548896854/segments/13253811765

I hit 25.3 mph on a 1.4 mile segment in an oly tri here this year lol tailwind


Stalks strava. Admires shirtless photos.

 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
 Originally Posted By: robbbby
ugh i'm so torn.

Just noticed the drivetrains are different as well

Tarmac 52/36 with 11/28 cassette
Diverge 48/32 with 11/32 cassette

I don't want mtb gearing on the diverge. This is swaying me back to the tarmac but bothers me I cant ride the gravel trails we have out here.


That's mountain bike gearing?

Let's talk this out. The taller tire does counteract some of that. So do the math and figure out the gear inches.


I'm pretty sure thats 30mph+ and 90rpm. It's a touring bike, so if you occasionally get up to 35mph you spin a little, or you coast? Now if you're racing where you really want a certain RPMs to sprint? Maybe I see the problem

But Let's not act like it's hard to change gearing on a bike.


I wouldn't say a tarmac CAN'T ride gravel, but with 23mm it won't be as much fun. Between stiff tires and short-wheel base, and fast steering it'll feel like more work. But CF can be dampened (not sure if you're looking at AL or CF diverge since it comes in both).

But let's look at the low gearing for when you're off-road. My quick math is the diverge has 25% lower bottom gearing. That' HUGE if you're climbing long hills, with gear, or offroad)

Realistically go test ride both.


I was exaggerating about mtb gearing, though i'd be more content with the diverge at say 48/36 and 11-28, I can talk to the bike shop owner when he gets back from his hunting trip.

But yeah, you're right, I should just try both, though I think I know what both are capable of. At this point it is just more about what I want... Do I want the quick road bike that I can only ride on the road but use to possibly do the local road race series, or do I want a more capable bike that I can do long road rides on, but at the same time not worry about going off road and riding some rail trail. In a perfect world I would take both.

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#8831015 - 10/26/16 08:29 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2667
Loc: Denver, CO
just get a cross bike!!!!!!
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#8831016 - 10/26/16 08:29 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2667
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dont make me ride to canada and beat you over the head with one! \:D

Edited by nato2377 (10/26/16 08:30 PM)
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#8831044 - 10/26/16 09:23 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
robbbby Offline
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Registered: 01/23/02
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Loc: Windsor, Ontario
cross bike is definitely not an option! I would never race cx and I think the diverge would be much more capable for the type of road/offroad I would do.
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#8831067 - 10/26/16 09:59 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2667
Loc: Denver, CO
they are pretty much the exact same bike but the diverge is still a road bike. cx bike would be better for offroad. i used to ride my cx bike on mtb trails..ive never seen a diverge in the woods and plenty of people ride cx bikes and dont race. but enjoy your endurance bike :P
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#8831170 - 10/27/16 06:12 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
robbbby Offline
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Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 14861
Loc: Windsor, Ontario
I don't want a bike to ride on actual mtb trails though, I want something that is geared mostly to road riding but is comfortable enough to ride on hardpack gravel/dirty for long rides. I am going to enjoy my endurance bike! You enjoy your wanker cx bike \:\)
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#8831941 - 10/27/16 01:31 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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Registered: 12/07/02
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Loc: Oregon
If you're doing long distances, which will feature some gravel roads, I'd go diverge take a good look at teh roubaix.

CX will be generally be twitchy, no? I mean due to the tightness of courses, I'd always heard that CX bikes run very steep steer-tube angles, and short stays. Also tend to be geared even lower?

Like a CX bike won't be as fun across 10 miles of gravel, but it will climb a steep hill better, and help you avoid a tree at the top.


Diverge is more of a light tourer. Mostly road components with a more stout frame, discs, and heavier wheels(good and bad).
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#8832320 - 10/27/16 05:56 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2667
Loc: Denver, CO
 Originally Posted By: robbbby
I don't want a bike to ride on actual mtb trails though, I want something that is geared mostly to road riding but is comfortable enough to ride on hardpack gravel/dirty for long rides. I am going to enjoy my endurance bike! You enjoy your wanker cx bike \:\)


sold it to get my DeVinci
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#8832361 - 10/27/16 06:47 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
robbbby Offline
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Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 14861
Loc: Windsor, Ontario
Got my new bike! Surprise twist though, it's not a specialized.

Decided to stop into another LBS since I was close by, talked to the owner and explained what I wanted so he showed me a few bikes... trek, argon, cervelo, none of them were exactly what I wanted, then he showed me a 2016 colnago cx zero.

"Damnit, I don't want a cx bike!"
"Oh, but it isn't, the cx in the name has absolutely nothing to do with cyclocross"

Full carbon frame/fork/seatpost
Full ultegra drivetrain
Shimano 785? Disc Brakes
DT swiss wheelset

Best of all it had 50/34 and 11-28 for gearing, so for me it bested the diverge on that fact alone. Room for 25mm tire though a lot of the reviews I read said 28 or 30 I believe.

Then I looked at the sticker. $5500 CAN retail. Fuck me.
Owner saw me cringe and offered it to me for $2800!!
He just picked up a new line of bikes and his contract with them was to purchase 100 bikes, all of which he was taking delivery of next week. He told me he just wanted it gone and couldn't afford to have it taking up floor space.

I ran home, grabbed my pedals and shoes and went back for a test ride.
I did a roughly 10 minute test ride after getting the bike quickly setup and fell in love. Bike accelerated just like I imagined a bike this stiff would. Handling and braking felt good and not at all twitchy. The ride was super comfortable, not at all choppy like I remember from riding my old road bike years ago. Best part was riding through gravel and hardpack, it felt so smooth and navigated like a champ, I could not believe I was riding over rock.

Went back in, talked to the owner some more and ended up getting the bike for $2500+taxes. Unreal deal in my opinion for the bike/build. The diverge with an inferior build would have cost me twice that.

The bike is now happily at home with my other bikes. In the kitchen.

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#8832445 - 10/27/16 08:27 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2667
Loc: Denver, CO
awesome man! you forgot one thing...the pictures!!!
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"Riding a race bike is an art - a thing that you do because you feel something inside." V. Rossi

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#8834309 - 10/29/16 03:45 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
robbbby Offline
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Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 14861
Loc: Windsor, Ontario
Nowhere to really host.

Second ride on the new bike today, yesterday was more test and tune and make adjustments. Did 70 miles, 75% on hardpacked gravel, was able to average 19.6m/h over the ~3.5 hours. This bike is awesome so far, it was more comfortable riding this on gravel than my mountain bike!

Only thing i'm unsure of is I find myself in the drops 95% of the time. Does this mean my bars are probably too high? I lowered them and flipped the stem yesterday from what the bike shop had setup, and after yesterdays t&t ride lowered them again. I find if I ride on the hoods I feel too upright. My MTB is a very low and aggressive position so I'm not sure if that just translates to being more comfortable in the drops in that aggressive position or if I still need to go down more?

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#8841842 - 11/05/16 04:28 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
robbbby Offline
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Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 14861
Loc: Windsor, Ontario
Did my first century on the new bike, she's a beast. No soreness and still just as comfortable on mile 100 as mile 1.
Not nato speed, but was able to average 19.5m/h for 104miles riding solo on a mix of gravel and road.


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#8842469 - 11/06/16 09:30 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2667
Loc: Denver, CO
glad you like it man! i rode 4.5hrs of mtb sat. 38 miles, 5100ft climb. lugging a 33lb mtb and wearing a 10lb pack uphills is a workout. opening climb is 1300ft in 2.7miles. really wish i had a 30T on the front but then i thought of how robby would make fun of me, so i ignored that thought \:D

and nato doesnt do almost 20mph centuries lol
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#8846863 - 11/09/16 06:26 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2667
Loc: Denver, CO
going to moab on fri for 3 days. woot!
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#8847135 - 11/09/16 09:44 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
robbbby Offline
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Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 14861
Loc: Windsor, Ontario
pics upon return!
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#8847744 - 11/10/16 11:08 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
KEVIN STICKAZ Offline
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Registered: 01/23/12
Posts: 11805
Loc: Kevin
Dam sun, nice century
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#8848213 - 11/10/16 03:28 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: KEVIN STICKAZ]
robbbby Offline
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Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 14861
Loc: Windsor, Ontario
Dat zero elevation doe.

For real, it was under 1000'. My ricer excuse is that it is really windy here, especially riding along the lake.

In more serious news, I just ordered kurt kinetic rollers. T minus 4 days until I ride into the basement wall.

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#8870166 - 12/03/16 09:28 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2667
Loc: Denver, CO
been having some big outdoor weeks the past 3 weeks. prior 2 weeks were 13 hrs outside, over my 4 day thanksgiving break i rode 269 outdoors. this week im on pace for 11 hrs. did this today, 70 more on tap for tomorrow
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#8870167 - 12/03/16 09:30 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2667
Loc: Denver, CO
heres the elevation profile


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#8870389 - 12/04/16 11:50 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
robbbby Offline
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Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 14861
Loc: Windsor, Ontario
Damn son! That's awesome.
My riding has dropped right off. Had to work out of town for a few days this week and since i've got back haven't been able to find the motivation to ride. I'm hoping I can start fresh tomorrow, going to try and do the high volume build phase on trainerroad. Will see if I can stomach an 8hour per week trainer workload.

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#8879027 - 12/12/16 08:24 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2667
Loc: Denver, CO
finally on zwift if anyone wants to race

Edited by nato2377 (12/12/16 08:24 PM)
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#8879264 - 12/13/16 01:20 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
robbbby Offline
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Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 14861
Loc: Windsor, Ontario
you will lose!

What are you using, real power meter or cheating with virtual power?

I was supposed to start a new training plan tomorrow and do an 8 minute test but it's nearly 2:30am here and my buddy just left and my counter is covered in empties. I'm contemplating calling in sick. Training plan definitely delayed 1 week.

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#8879845 - 12/13/16 01:32 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 43598
Loc: Oregon
Virtual power isn't cheating, it's playing the game!

Using a 650 wheel with virtual power would be cheating.

I keep thinking of signing up, but my touring tires/rims mean virtual power would be about 3.5% off. That's enough for stickaz to beat me.
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#8879854 - 12/13/16 01:39 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2667
Loc: Denver, CO
 Originally Posted By: robbbby
you will lose!

What are you using, real power meter or cheating with virtual power?

I was supposed to start a new training plan tomorrow and do an 8 minute test but it's nearly 2:30am here and my buddy just left and my counter is covered in empties. I'm contemplating calling in sick. Training plan definitely delayed 1 week.

I might lose lol my ftp went to shit out here. I have a real power meter, a Stages. No cheating here 👍😬


Edited by nato2377 (12/13/16 01:40 PM)
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#8881610 - 12/14/16 06:22 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
robbbby Offline
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Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 14861
Loc: Windsor, Ontario
Still waiting for pics from your trip!

If zwift has a trial I may try it out. I already pay for trainerroad for a year in advance. It isn't social and interactive like zwift but I really like just having a structured workout and going at it. I don't need fancy graphics, just loud music.

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#8881778 - 12/14/16 09:35 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2667
Loc: Denver, CO
ill post some pics then. can try zwift for 7 days free. they have workouts and training plans too. a lot of my teammates are doing the advanced 12wk winter plan. im getting some great workouts on it
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"Riding a race bike is an art - a thing that you do because you feel something inside." V. Rossi

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#8882103 - 12/15/16 11:18 AM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
KEVIN STICKAZ Offline
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Registered: 01/23/12
Posts: 11805
Loc: Kevin
I 100% need the social/competitive aspect(s) of zwift and love avoiding doing any sort of structured workout on it [except in those increasingly rare instances I'm motivated to sweat buckets all over the floor]
zwift is still $10/mo afaik
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#8892090 - 12/24/16 04:26 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: KEVIN STICKAZ]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2667
Loc: Denver, CO
merry christmas
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"Riding a race bike is an art - a thing that you do because you feel something inside." V. Rossi

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#8892148 - 12/24/16 06:40 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2667
Loc: Denver, CO
Moab pics















Edited by nato2377 (12/24/16 06:41 PM)
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"Riding a race bike is an art - a thing that you do because you feel something inside." V. Rossi

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#8892942 - 12/26/16 12:27 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
robbbby Offline
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Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 14861
Loc: Windsor, Ontario
I need to go to moab, fuck!

Century on Christmas Eve in 41 weather is nuts. I rode outside that day as well but it was all snow, ice and water so not enjoyable one bit.
I was pretty happy that I did more than 12 hours of riding for the week that just ended, but seeing a 5.5hr ride has me depressed now.

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#8893052 - 12/26/16 05:03 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2667
Loc: Denver, CO
12hr is solid! I only did 10.25hrs. Temp isnt that bad since its always sunny. today was leg warmers, fleece jersey, light jacket and gloves day

here was today


Edited by nato2377 (12/26/16 05:05 PM)
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"Riding a race bike is an art - a thing that you do because you feel something inside." V. Rossi

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#8893071 - 12/26/16 05:37 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: nato2377]
robbbby Offline
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Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 14861
Loc: Windsor, Ontario
Killing it. Really impressive to see such long rides this time of year.

I'm all trainer/rollers right now.
However, I couldn't bring myself to ride today. Too much food, drink and lack of sleep the last two days made for 0 motivation this morning.

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#8893084 - 12/26/16 05:57 PM Re: Cyclists that race - training [Re: robbbby]
nato2377 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2667
Loc: Denver, CO
it makes it a lot easier to ride when 1. its always sunny and 2. being on a team of 50+ , theres always someone to ride with.
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