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#3886611 - 07/09/09 08:55 AM 240sx...overrated?
UglyValiant Offline
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Registered: 10/09/02
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Was the US market 240sx an overrated car? Let's face it, it's mod potential is terrific, what about the basic US market car?

I hear time and again people waxing on about the 240sx, as if finding a clean one is akin to finding an affordable mclearan f1...but even to a 14 y/o car nut like I was when it came out, I could see it's glaring weakness, no power. For it's time, no one regarded it too highly as a performance car...many considering it a "secretary's car" as anyone with any performance aspirations would have chose any number of other models. 240sx had the looks...and being a rwd car was fairly cool. It's handling was good, but not really world beater status.

What say sVa?
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#3886648 - 07/09/09 09:14 AM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: UglyValiant]
HoustonFocusST Offline
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Overrated. If it was such a good seller they wouldve kept it our brought it back like the 350/370Z
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#3886717 - 07/09/09 09:35 AM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: HoustonFocusST]
CommonGutterTrash Offline
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As it Was sold in the US, it was a dilluted version of a real performer.
Had it come with the "essarrtwenny", and without that gay HICAS crap, I think it would have had MUCH more staying power.

more power, less crap to break!
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#3886748 - 07/09/09 09:47 AM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
6 maybe Offline
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Only driven one (S14), and the handling and control feel did not impress. Overrated.
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#3886944 - 07/09/09 10:53 AM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: 6 maybe]
OnyxEros Offline
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Loc: Seattle
overrated now, maybe

back when they were being sold you were hard pressed to get anyone to buy them because of the 'truck' motor and all they did was 'look' fast
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#3887043 - 07/09/09 11:28 AM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: UglyValiant]
Serendipitous Offline
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I liked the S13 that I drove despite the weird steering feel. The car wasn't terribly underpowered for its time. Didn't they run mid-high 15s?
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#3887118 - 07/09/09 12:02 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: Serendipitous]
interpol Offline
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Registered: 01/31/07
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the appeal is that you can take one home, gut the shit out of it, and have a very decent plaything for practically nothing. only "cheap" car i drove that felt as good stock was a miata and those tend to limit people because of their size. i was rolling around gutted/ka24'd for about a year and had a great time. it's a sports car for the recession lol

back to the original question, yes they're overrated... in hindsight. it's like classic rock, nowadays people take for granted how famous bands like led zep and jimi hendrix are, but in their heyday they were struggling and their success was not assured. the rabid fans have blown the 240sx out of proportion but it wasn't exactly a popular car during its US production cycle. still, it's a great chassis with endless potential and an aftermarket that rivals honda, so in that regard i wouldn't say so.
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#3887122 - 07/09/09 12:03 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: Serendipitous]
UglyValiant Offline
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Registered: 10/09/02
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Loc: Milwaukee, WI
 Originally Posted By: Serendipitous
The car wasn't terribly underpowered for its time. Didn't they run mid-high 15s?
I don't think so...despite the 140hp (155 later), and relatively light weight (~2800-2900?), they were 0-60 mid-8's w/ a manual trans, mid, high 16's in the 1/4. I remember seeing an auto one struggling to get low 17's at the track.

I recall that before the modding/DET bug took hold, these things were a joke against my then stock Shelby-Z, which stock was 15.7 or so....
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#3887173 - 07/09/09 12:21 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
Euphoricuck Offline
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 Originally Posted By: g96nt
As it Was sold in the US, it was a dilluted version of a real performer.
Had it come with the "essarrtwenny", and without that gay HICAS crap, I think it would have had MUCH more staying power.

more power, less crap to break!
i actually agree with you for once.

the North American version was crap, though with some tweaks it could come alive...shit you could say that for a lot of cars we get.
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#3887259 - 07/09/09 12:56 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: Euphoricuck]
spotch... Offline
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I dunno... I don't think it was any more overrated than the cars it was performing against in the mid-late 90s. I mean look what it was up against for the longest time... integra, ford probe, mazda version of the ford probe. I think it was a little slow, but on the balance I think it fared pretty well through the mid 90s vs its competitors. Slow, but RWD was a plus. It just sucks that it could have been so much more.
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#3887294 - 07/09/09 01:08 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: spotch...]
RiceEater T/A Offline
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Not really, theyre still cheap with even last year 98s not worth more than 7k stock. Basically rwd civics(dont mean that negatively) and the values represent it. Good for what you get, and can do with them.
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#3887594 - 07/09/09 02:25 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: RiceEater T/A]
neonmike22 Offline
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Registered: 11/04/00
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I think they were overlooked because we were oblivious to what they were like in Japan until the internet became more popular. They were discontinued by then.
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#3887608 - 07/09/09 02:30 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: UglyValiant]
max Offline
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Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 225
 Originally Posted By: UglyValiant
relatively light weight (~2800-2900?)


The S13's were around high 2500s for an 89, up around 2700 for a 93, and the S14's were around 2800lbs. The early 140hp cars and late (S14) 155hp cars were in the 16s, but the KA24DE powered S13's were definitely quicker.

They're cheap, can take a fair number of engines (some trivially easy like the SR20, some sorta easy like the RB or LSx), RWD, have a pretty sizable aftermarket, can swallow a fairly large amount of rubber all things considered, and aren't hugely hampered due to shitty suspension setups.

What more could you ask for from a project car?
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#3887939 - 07/09/09 04:13 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: max]
NOHC Offline
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 Originally Posted By: max


What more could you ask for from a project car?


To not have the doriffffto faggots drive the price of them sky high?
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#3887941 - 07/09/09 04:13 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: max]
spotch... Offline
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Registered: 07/25/00
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Not to mention that when I was in HS some of the people in my circle of friends owned an old volvo, a zx2, a dodge dakota, ford probe, saturn sc2, and the 240. For a first car / high school car, the 240 was pretty sweet and not especially overrated IMHO. I would be perfectly happy if nissan still offered a sub-200hp rwd car for 20k or less.
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#3888282 - 07/09/09 05:52 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: NOHC]
neonmike22 Offline
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Registered: 11/04/00
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 Originally Posted By: NOHC
To not have the doriffffto faggots drive the price of them sky high wreck them all?


FTFY
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#3888323 - 07/09/09 06:05 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: ]
spotch... Offline
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Registered: 07/25/00
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I think the MSRP in 98 was low 18k for the base, low 20s for the SE and mid/low 20s for the 'LE' model.
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#3888396 - 07/09/09 06:34 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: max]
UglyValiant Offline
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Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 6364
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
 Originally Posted By: max
What more could you ask for from a project car?
Nothing...but this is why I separate it's mod potential (which is undoubtedly great, and is for which I have great appreciation) from what it was in stock form.

I don't think that there has been many cars in which it's fortunes were improved so much by the passage of time. I recall talking to a casual buddy about various cars back in the mid 90's, and we came along the 240...it was like "Man, now there's a car with the looks, but what else has it got going for it? RWD? It'd be nice if it had an engine that would turn those tires over!" (<word for word, no lie, lol).

I do recall seeing my first DET swap (which, fwiw, I beat at the strip) thinking to myself, "now THAT what it should have been..."
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#3888429 - 07/09/09 06:47 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: UglyValiant]
Euphoricuck Offline
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Registered: 11/05/03
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Loc: Canadistan
oh ya det is what it shouldve been for sure(at least the option availible to us)

though I dont see your valiant beating it iirc(from the times you had in your sig)...

the biggest downside is the rust(at least for me in canada). id take an old civic 1/4 panel rust over the rust bucketness the 240 becomes.
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#3888921 - 07/09/09 09:39 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: Euphoricuck]
RacerXI Offline
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Registered: 07/04/00
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They were around 25ish in 95. My cousin had one.
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#3889014 - 07/09/09 10:12 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: RacerXI]
scootergeek Offline
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Registered: 07/24/00
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Loc: St. Louis
Not as overrated as the AE-86 Corolla.

Seriously underrated (and rare) is the 1987 S12 200SX V6.

cheers,
scott
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#3889088 - 07/09/09 10:28 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: scootergeek]
ScottStaypuff Offline
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 Originally Posted By: scootergeek
Not as overrated as the AE-86 Corolla.

Seriously underrated (and rare) is the 1987 S12 200SX V6.

cheers,
scott


I think I may have test drove one of those at a used car dealership a million years ago.

My mom test drove a 240sx way back when if it says anything. lol
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#3889106 - 07/09/09 10:35 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: interpol]
1d10t Offline
Thinks dead kids are funny
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Registered: 01/04/03
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 Originally Posted By: interpol
it's a great chassis with endless potential and an aftermarket that rivals honda, so in that regard i wouldn't say so.



I was with you up until here. Sure the chassis has potential, but stock it's floppy like an e30 convertible. Cage one, do an sr swap, stick a GT2871R on, control arms, kaaz, and some 245 tires and the car starts becoming worthwhile. Luckily once you have the chassis, the aftermarket parts are cheap and setup has been mapped out it's brainless. What I'd do for a set of $200 adjustable tubular a arms or knuckles for my car.
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#3889185 - 07/09/09 11:03 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: UglyValiant]
Nurburgring Offline
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Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1382
Loc: Santiago, Chile
Three years ago I bought a mint S13 240SX. The car was not only slow in a straight line (i donīt care about that as much), but it was also a dog at the track. Slow steering, numb feedback, 1-wheel spinning at every slow corner exit (open diff), what a crap. A stock Miata is a better ride. Sold it.







A couple of weeks ago bought a JDM 180SX. Basically an S13 with a factory SR20DET. 2650 lbs, RWD, 210hp, stock LSD = nice combo even by todayīs standards. Dirt cheap too (3k), and the car is mint. The stock turbo is junk and I still donīt care about the stock suspension, but with very minimal mods I think this car has potential.



























Hey Scootergeek, donīt mess with AE86īs, Iīm kicking old school Alfas, BMWs and Fiats asses like thereīs no tomorrow in my jdm POS
In fact last week I just bought a second one.










Overrated? letīs talk about old school MINIīs. And I own one. Piece of crap.
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#3889286 - 07/09/09 11:37 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: 1d10t]
interpol Offline
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Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 1669
Loc: las vegas
 Originally Posted By: 1Il
I was with you up until here. Sure the chassis has potential, but stock it's floppy like an e30 convertible. Cage one, do an sr swap, stick a GT2871R on, control arms, kaaz, and some 245 tires and the car starts becoming worthwhile. Luckily once you have the chassis, the aftermarket parts are cheap and setup has been mapped out it's brainless. What I'd do for a set of $200 adjustable tubular a arms or knuckles for my car.


and i was with you until you mentioned upgrading to that wimpy little motor, wimpy little turbo and wimpy little tire

it's a late 80's design, obviously not a spaceframe/tube chassis... floppy is expected and somewhat easy to fix. finding a car that's light, has a nice suspension setup, plenty of room in the engine bay and wheel wells is harder.
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#3889293 - 07/09/09 11:42 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: Nurburgring]
scootergeek Offline
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Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 46172
Loc: St. Louis
 Originally Posted By: Nurburgring
Overrated? letīs talk about old school MINIīs. And I own one. Piece of crap.


Now them's fighting words. Simplicity can be brilliance too. Konis, Hi-Los, Yoko A006s, 1.5:1 rockers on an otherwise stock 1275 motor, mildly ported stock SU's, an LCB header, Mini Metro 4 pots up front with Minifins in the rear, a 10:1 steering rack with a nice small wheel and finally a decent driver's seat is a recipe to convert a really fun car into a fantastically fun car. And that's not a lot of mods really.

cheers,
scott
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#3889326 - 07/10/09 12:03 AM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: scootergeek]
Mikey_b Offline
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Registered: 04/11/00
Posts: 46466
 Originally Posted By: scootergeek
Not as overrated as the AE-86 Corolla.

Seriously underrated (and rare) is the 1987 S12 200SX V6.

cheers,
scott

They're overrated now because of the Initial D/drifting tax but as a pure drivers car, it's actually a great car. RWD, hard top, good balance, free revving motor, lightweight, reliable...that list narrows down a LOT of cars. The AE86 was a great car for when it cost $3000 for a perfect example...but nowadays you find rust buckets for that price.

I wouldn't say 240SX's are overrated. It was always a good car for tuning (has many aspects of the AE86 but more modern and better chassis). The biggest difference now is good parts availability. 5-7 years ago it wasn't easy trying to find shops that did SR20DET swaps...and a lot of the high quality JDM parts were not easy to get ahold of. Now parts are plentiful, engine swaps can be done in 1/2 a day, and a lot of the parts that were once impossible to get from Japan are now in stock on US shelves. Plus now that everyone has been messing around with them for a bit, there is a lot more knowledge about what works/doesn't and actual tuning data (like suspension settings for example).

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#3889376 - 07/10/09 12:25 AM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: interpol]
1d10t Offline
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Registered: 01/04/03
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 Originally Posted By: interpol
 Originally Posted By: 1Il
I was with you up until here. Sure the chassis has potential, but stock it's floppy like an e30 convertible. Cage one, do an sr swap, stick a GT2871R on, control arms, kaaz, and some 245 tires and the car starts becoming worthwhile. Luckily once you have the chassis, the aftermarket parts are cheap and setup has been mapped out it's brainless. What I'd do for a set of $200 adjustable tubular a arms or knuckles for my car.


and i was with you until you mentioned upgrading to that wimpy little motor, wimpy little turbo and wimpy little tire

it's a late 80's design, obviously not a spaceframe/tube chassis... floppy is expected and somewhat easy to fix. finding a car that's light, has a nice suspension setup, plenty of room in the engine bay and wheel wells is harder.



Wimpy?

I said worthwhile, sure in imagination land you could stick a LSx or fucking turbo merlin in it, but with a stock sr and that turbo you can put down over 300 at the wheels. Gutted and caged weighing in around 2400 at 300whp is worthwhile. How much have you fit under the stock fenders? 255 was the limit in the front for me, that's with widebody fenders, and extensive cutting/welding in the front inside and the fucking death ridge above.

You can make excuses, 80's whatever, but that chassis stock will bend around floor jacks even at the factory approved spots. Fuck I've seen k-cars with less floppy chassis. "Easy to fix" really means at least poly mounts, and caging, if not also seam welding.
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#3889458 - 07/10/09 01:13 AM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: 1d10t]
interpol Offline
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Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 1669
Loc: las vegas
i was just yankin your chain brah... yeah sr is coolio so is a disco potato and 245's

but if you must know i have 9.5" rims all around with plenty of clearance... running REALLY stretched 235's just for grins but the current wheel setup will accomodate 295's which are on deck. not stock fenders though. AND I HAVE AN LS2 sooooo.........

.........it's pretty cool over here in imagination land bro, i'm hanging out with elliot smith and some fucking DINOSAURS. k gotta go, me and jacko are gonna go fly around in the delorean and bang some demerol
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#3889809 - 07/10/09 08:49 AM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: ]
LowTech302 Offline
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Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 9721
 Originally Posted By: Chuck
 Originally Posted By: scootergeek
Seriously underrated (and rare) is the 1987 S12 200SX V6.
I have had wood for these forever. Just never pulled the trigger on one, although I have driven a couple. Also drove an '84 turbo 200SX.

Really? Man I had an 87 200SX in high school and that thing was a POS. I remember the suspension was so freaking terrible that the ass end would slap the ground on hard shifts. And that was after buying replacement springs and new shocks thinking that it would help fix it. It eventually committed suppuku on the freeway by ejecting a rod and lighting itself on fire.

As for 240's, IMO everything that rides the touge wave is overrated. They are nice cars in Japan since they have a decent motor and are cheap and plentiful, but we have a different selection of cars over here and the Initial D crowd couldn't comprehend that we have a different assortment of old cars with potential.

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#3890179 - 07/10/09 10:55 AM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: LowTech302]
scootergeek Offline
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Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 46172
Loc: St. Louis
 Originally Posted By: LowTech302
Really? Man I had an 87 200SX in high school and that thing was a POS. I remember the suspension was so freaking terrible that the ass end would slap the ground on hard shifts. And that was after buying replacement springs and new shocks thinking that it would help fix it. It eventually committed suppuku on the freeway by ejecting a rod and lighting itself on fire.


There used to be one here in the midwest that raced SCCA ITS, and it was fast and planted. I always liked watching it race. Made a nice break from the usual BMW 325, Datsun 240Z, Porsche 944, Mazda FC RX-7 domination.

cheers,
scott
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#3890393 - 07/10/09 11:39 AM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: interpol]
1d10t Offline
Thinks dead kids are funny
Post Master Sr


Registered: 01/04/03
Posts: 7482
 Originally Posted By: interpol
i was just yankin your chain brah... yeah sr is coolio so is a disco potato and 245's

but if you must know i have 9.5" rims all around with plenty of clearance... running REALLY stretched 235's just for grins but the current wheel setup will accomodate 295's which are on deck. not stock fenders though. AND I HAVE AN LS2 sooooo.........

.........it's pretty cool over here in imagination land bro, i'm hanging out with elliot smith and some fucking DINOSAURS. k gotta go, me and jacko are gonna go fly around in the delorean and bang some demerol




Elliot Smith and Dinosaurs? That's badical.
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#3890689 - 07/10/09 01:09 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: 1d10t]
hustler Offline
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Registered: 01/09/00
Posts: 6095
Loc: Seattle, WA
that car always seemed like the 5.0 of the import world to me for various reasons. I saw a nice example the other day driving and it looked gorgeous, but had a huge wing on the back which ruined it for me.
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#3891027 - 07/10/09 02:35 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: hustler]
CommonGutterTrash Offline
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
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Registered: 09/16/02
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..more like the 2.3 LX


=0[
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#3891209 - 07/10/09 03:12 PM Re: 240sx...overrated? [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
neonmike22 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 11/04/00
Posts: 3150
Loc: Nashville, TN
 Originally Posted By: g96nt
..more like the 2.3 LX[


No kidding.

I think at least part of the reason that the 240 didn't sell well is that it was priced the same as the turbo DSMs. Not much incentive to buy the nissan with the boring engine when there's a turbocharged rocket at the same price point.
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