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#37248 - 12/13/03 04:04 PM B18C1 or B18B Block
DCSportsSI Offline
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Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 554
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Im going to buy a B18C1 or B block and just wanted to know if there was really any difference. If you took away the pistons and rods, what would be the difference? Thats pretty much all i wanted to know because im looking for one to build up with some shit. Tell me what you think about this setup.. This will be on a B16A2 Head.

B18 Block with.

JE 9:1 Pistons
Eagle Rods
Darton Sleeves

This is the basic setup... NOw will these Pistons be fine with just 5-6 lbs. of boost for everyday driving or would that be better for stock pistons? What would be a good amount of boost for normal driving with the 9:1's? Anyone have any suggestions on what they would do for a rebuilt B18 Block? This is what i think im going to do rather than a B16 block... This would pretty much be a LS/VTEC motor i guess I have heard some problems with the LS Block and a VTEC head. So maybe a b18c1 would be better. THanks.
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#37249 - 12/13/03 04:44 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
AVATAR Offline
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Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 3234
Loc: The other, less populated hell
All threw the import community the B18C1 block is known as "GOD" if you get one, keep it and cherish it. Any healthy B series block should be good for an upwards of 300 horsepower with a conservative tune. Completely stock that is. If the money is burning a hole in your pocket then sleeving would be a good idea as well as built internals. I'm a fan of LS/VTECs but the GSR is a sick engine.
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#37250 - 12/13/03 04:49 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
PensacolaSi Offline
Major Member


Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 1334
Loc: Hampton Roads, VA
B18B

140HP
1834cc
8.347 Deck
3.189 Bore
3.504 Stroke
5.394 Rod
1.181 Piston Compression Height
48 Cylinder head volume (cc)
0.935 Connecting Rod (big end) width
1.54 Rod/Stroke Ratio
25 Vavle Angle
31/28 Valve Sizes Intake/Exhaust


B18C1
170HP
1797cc
8.347 Deck
3.189 Bore
3.433 Stroke
5.429 Rod
1.181 Piston Compression Height
41.6 Cylinder Head Volume
0.858 Connecting Rod (big end) Height
1.58 Rod/Stroke
26 Angle Valves
33/28 Valve Sizes Intake/Exhaust

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#37251 - 12/13/03 08:25 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
DCSportsSI Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 554
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
So as far as the bottem end goes, they are almost identical. So which one would be better for turbo? Or would it even matter.
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#37252 - 12/13/03 08:37 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
DCSportsSI Offline
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Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 554
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Wouldnt an LS/VTEC pull on a GSR motor though? And what about problems with the LS Block and the VTEC Head? no issue with that? I dont know what to freakin do!!! i want to stay all motor, but then again im tired of being slow. I want to buy a B18 bottom end but if im changing the pistons rods ect... then that would make no difference between the two block. I like looking at the b18C1 on the block though! haha.
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#37253 - 12/13/03 08:50 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
AVATAR Offline
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Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 3234
Loc: The other, less populated hell
ummm the LS block and the GSR block are pretty different actually. Technically the LS/VTEC should pull the GSR because of the displacement advantage, but the GSR usually prevails. The LS/VTEC if set up properly should be perfecty reliable.
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#37254 - 12/13/03 08:56 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
DCSportsSI Offline
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Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 554
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
How are they so different. My looking at the previous post, i see little number differences, but nothing too big. Displacement is different. For changing the internals though would make this neither an LS block or GSR block.. but just a B18 block correct? i guess thats really all i need to know. Cause if you scroll up, you'll see what im putting in it for Turbo.
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#37255 - 12/13/03 09:29 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
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The LS uses a different crank which affects the R/S ratio
it doesnt' have oil squirters for the pistons like the GSR
I'm not sure if they both have main girdles, I know the GSR does
and I'm sure their are other differences that I have listed but those are the main ones.
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#37256 - 12/13/03 10:49 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
stierhund Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 10/16/02
Posts: 141
Loc: SC, USA
formula of reliability there, turbocharging a B18C1 will go much better than a B18B because of the way the crank is designed

its how high u want to rev, and what size turbo u choose

ie...

low revlimit, midsize turbo, more midrange power made

or

higher revlimit, lil bigger turbo, more top end power (still good midrange)

lot to figure there for what u want cuz a B18 tranny is geared higher than a B16 so midrange may be better
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#37257 - 12/14/03 05:12 AM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
DCSportsSI Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 554
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Yeah, now i see the difference. iLL go with the B18C1. Cause i will still be reving high. Also, im going to be staying with my B16 tranny, do you see any problems with that? See, i dont know too much about all this stuff so im learning more as i go on. Sorry for the newb questions. Does being geared higher make it any better than my tranny now?
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#37258 - 12/14/03 08:42 AM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
havalilsi Offline
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Registered: 10/16/02
Posts: 171
b18c1 engines are terrible for forced induction. the b18b is the way to go. to even help you out i'll trade your b18c1 for my b16 block. there is a reason b18c1 motors are more expensive than b18b motors. my dream engine in my si starts with a b18c block.
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#37259 - 12/14/03 10:00 AM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
AVATAR Offline
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Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 3234
Loc: The other, less populated hell
No there should be no problems with the Si (B16) tranny, it's killer.
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#37260 - 12/14/03 10:45 AM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
DCSportsSI Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 554
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
So you are telling me that the B18c1 block is bad for forced induction. Its made for higer revving though, the b18b is not. Correct? which in other words B18C1 is should be what i get!
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#37261 - 12/14/03 11:46 AM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
Vadian Offline
Poster


Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 337
Loc: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Both blocks are perfectly good platforms for a forced induced motor. Rev high or not, the R/S ratio of both blocks is not that big. You can rev the b18b block just as high as the gsr; hell, I've ran my b18a to 9100 plenty of times with no problems. Now I'm boosted, it sees 8600 almost daily while trying to maintain traction with 400+whp.

The issue here is cost. You can find B18A/B block almost religiously and cheaply. When you do find a gsr block, its usually almost double in price compared to the b18a/b.

Either way, you can't go wrong..
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#37262 - 12/14/03 12:11 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
AVATAR Offline
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Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 3234
Loc: The other, less populated hell
Neither of them have the ideal R/S ratio for super high revs in stock form, but the GSr is definately better than the LS as far as the R/S. The B16 is better than both of them, as it almost has a perfect R/S ratio. Definately go with the B18C block and the B16 tranny if money permits it.
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#37263 - 12/14/03 12:34 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
DCSportsSI Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 554
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Do you think that once i get this kit on, and THEN replace the block with a built B-18 block, will the power stay the same or increase? or maybe even decrease? Will i have any problems mounting it on again?
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#37264 - 12/14/03 03:26 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
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Registered: 09/24/00
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I assume that by saying kit you mean your turbo kit, so if you put a turbo kit on your B series engine . . . then have the engine built, provided you stayed with the same C/R and bore size, you should have the exact same power output as before. . .maybe slighty higher due to better ring sealing.
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#37265 - 12/14/03 03:43 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
DCSportsSI Offline
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Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 554
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Ohh sorry about that man. im thinking about going VORTECH so that's what i was talking about. If i have this installed on my B16 motor and then change the block with a B18 block BUT!! with 9:1 pistons.. will it decrease. Tell me what you think i should do.
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#37266 - 12/14/03 05:12 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
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Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 3234
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Okay if you are going from a Vortech'd B16 to a built Vortech'd B18C then yes the numbers will change, especially due to the increase in displacement. I dont think the kit can bolt from a B16 to a B18B/C due to differences in their intake manifolds.
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#37267 - 12/14/03 07:11 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
DCSportsSI Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 554
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
No, im just swapping the block, not the head or anything else.
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#37268 - 12/14/03 09:10 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
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Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 3234
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It'll change HP b/c of displacement. Why Vortech?
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#37269 - 12/14/03 09:13 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
braintree Offline
Sr Member


Registered: 08/14/01
Posts: 1176
Loc: chicago
Quote:

No, im just swapping the block, not the head or anything else.




I made a comment about in another thread. The b16 vortech kit won't bolt on to a b18 block because of the bracket. If you have a b16 and plan on getting a b18 later, either save for the b18 kit or just up the size of the b16 block.
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#37270 - 12/14/03 10:10 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
Vadian Offline
Poster


Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 337
Loc: Jacksonville, FL, USA
How high you think he's actually gonna rev to where the R/S ratio would be matter that much? I highly doubt above 9500, and by experience, the r/s ratio would not matter that much that you would have to worry.

I say go with whatever is in your budget and more easily accessible. Like I said both blocks are great; you can't go wrong either way.

We can talk at the meet on Wednesday, DCSportsSI; I'll be there.
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#37271 - 12/14/03 10:40 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
AVATAR Offline
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Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 3234
Loc: The other, less populated hell
Quote:

How high you think he's actually gonna rev to where the R/S ratio would be matter that much? I highly doubt above 9500, and by experience, the r/s ratio would not matter that much that you would have to worry.





Hmmm so you're saying revving an LS engine up to 9500 (which it would have to to really reep the benefits of a centrifugal S/C) would be ideal? Its simple physics that one block will like it more than the other, and it wont be the LS. That is just my oppinion and I'll leave it at that.
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#37272 - 12/15/03 05:35 AM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
DCSportsSI Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 554
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Im going VORTECH because of how much power it produces over the Greddy Kit at the same amount of boost and also im an everyday driver, dont really plan on making THAT much HP in the future and ive heard too many people with problems on the turbo.. ohh yeah.. Greddy's spool time and didnt want to start off with a T3/T4..thats pretty much it.
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#37273 - 12/15/03 05:37 AM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
DCSportsSI Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 554
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Yeah we'll talk on Wednesday... iLL definately be up there.. if it's raining then we'll go insdie Sneakers or something and talk about this cause it bothering me not knowing.. so yeah look for the Red Si.. clean as hell. Thanks for the help so far.
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#37274 - 12/15/03 03:56 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
Vadian Offline
Poster


Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 337
Loc: Jacksonville, FL, USA
You opinion is perfectly correct and I agree 110% The GSR r/s ratio is definitely more ideal for higher rev'ing. My point, however, is that I highly doubt he's gonna rev high enough to where the difference between the r/s ratios of the blocks would be significant and critical to the reliability of the motor.

The point to my view is that I'm all about cost effectiveness. If I had a bottomless wallet, hell I would take any of the b-series blocks, deckplate it, custom crank/rods, practically anything to have an ideal r/s ratio with the biggest displacement possible and reap the benefits. Then again if I had that wallet I'd be pimping a 911 turbo or something.
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#37275 - 12/15/03 04:11 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
Gab Offline
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Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 16913
Loc: Boston, MA
Quote:

Then again if I had that wallet I'd be pimping a 911 turbo or something.



See, now you're talking

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#37276 - 01/01/04 03:13 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
DCSportsSI Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 554
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Im wondering if should just save and buy a B18 block, instead of rebuilding my block i have now. This question will help me make my decision. If you bore a B16 block to 1.8L, how much weaker would this make the cylinders? Also the same question for the B18, but to 2.0L on that. What size piston for each would you have to use to make .2L higher?
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#37277 - 01/01/04 03:39 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
2000SICoupe Offline
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Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 3725
Loc: Florida
You are going the SC route now? I don't want to see you posting in six months about going turbo
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#37278 - 01/01/04 08:29 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
Jediknight23 Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 616
Loc: portsmouth, virginia
I have a similar setup in mind, and had an idea.... Will this work. (Didin't want to jack your thread)
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#37279 - 01/01/04 10:17 PM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
DCSportsSI Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 554
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
ohh no.. im still going Turbo! i wont go back to the SC decision. lol.. but could ya answer my question about the boring and possibly making the cylinders weaker.
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#37280 - 01/02/04 09:02 AM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
waistoftime Offline
Poster


Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 295
Get the b18a/b block. There is no advantage of the gsr block. It has a block girdle, which you can buy. It also has oil squirters, which you really won't need if you go with aftermarket rods and pistons. Also the oil squirters are plugged up in alot of race motors and some street motors. Doing so increases oil pressure. Before anybody get's me wrong, both are good blocks. Good luck with your decision.
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#37281 - 01/02/04 09:56 AM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
DCSportsSI Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 554
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
With the boring out question thoough... if i bore the B16 out to 1.8 or bore the B18 to 2.0 liters, will it make the block weakers in any of these? How much can you actually bore out before the block will have problems with cracks in the cylinders.. you know what im saying?

Forgot to add... when im looking for a block, just the bare block, does mean completely empty? not even the crank? or is that the crank with it but no pistons or rods... cause i need the block, crank, and thats it, and dont want to spend the extra money for the pistons, rods i dont need.


Edited by DCSportsSI (01/02/04 09:58 AM)
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#37282 - 01/02/04 10:20 AM Re: B18C1 or B18B Block
waistoftime Offline
Poster


Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 295
Well the furthest I would bore a block would be .25 over. 82mm COULD be done but it would be pushing it. Sleeves tend to crack and certain boost levels. And you can't bore a b16 to a 1.8ltr. And to bore a 1.8 to a 2.0 would require sleeves. The bore of a 2.0 is 84mm vs the 81mm of the 1.8.

Looking for a block depends on you and what you want to do. If you want to use stock internals, look for a complete block. If your gonna change the internals, look for a block with only the crank.


Edited by waistoftime (01/02/04 10:21 AM)

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