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#33707 - 09/23/03 01:48 AM **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
MadtownSi Offline
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By now most of you know that if you own a 99/00 Civic Si you can easily swap a B18C5 short block into your car. What some of you might not know is what is all need to complete this swap. What Iím going to try and do is give everyone a guide on what parts you need, with part numbers for what should be replace and what you might want to consider replacing or upgrading along the way.

First things first, you need a new B18C5 short block. How can you get one and what the hell is a short block???? A short block is a complete lower assembly, more to come on that. Were do I get oneÖÖ..start calling your local Acura dealers. Call around, call dealers in different states, you need to shop around because some dealers make them up and some donít.

What all comes with a B18C5 short block. You get the block with crank, rods, pistons, oil pump, oil pan, oil cooler, water pump and driver side engine mount (one that is attached to the block and not the sub frame). Everything comes assembled.

There are a few items that you need to finish the block.

First thing you will need is the water pipe that is on the backside of the motor, just above the oil filter. This water pipe is needed to work with the OEM oil cooler that comes with the ITR block. This oil cooler is not found on the USDM B16 found in the 99/00 Sis and this is why your water pipe off the B16 block will not work. Remember to order the O-Rings found on the ends of the water pipe.

You also need the hoses going to and from the oil cooler. One hose goes from the block to the oil cooler and then one from the oil cooler to the water pipe. Donít for get to order hose clamps too.

This is what you need;

Name____Part #______quantity
Note: part numbers are for a 2000 ITR

Connecting pipe #19505-PR3-000 qt.1
O-Ring (31.2x4.1) # 91314-PH7-003 qt.2
Oil Cooler Hose, IN #19422-PR3-000 qt.1
Oil Cooler Hose, OUT #19423-PR3-000 qt.1
Hose clamp (18.7mm) #19512-PC6-003 qt.4

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Whatís next?????? Lets talk timing belt and covers.

Because the B18C5 block is taller then the B16A2 block you will need different timing belt and timing belt covers for a perfect and clean fit.

Ok, I know I canít use my B16 timing belt because itís to short but what about the timing belt covers??? If you use them will have a gap between the upper cover and lower cover, and some small gaps on the backside of the inner cover. You want to keep dirt and other crap out from the timing belt area so do the proper thing and order new covers.

There is one thing I noticed about the stock Si crank pulley. In the Si Helms manual it shows two washers on each side of the crank pulley gear. Now if you go look at a 98 Helms manual for an ITR you will notice they only show one washer on the front side of the crank pulley gear and not one on the backside. I noticed if you put both washers on like the Si setup, it looks like you donít have much of the crank sticking out to put the pulley on. So I did it like the 98 Acura Helms manual shows and everything seems to be fine.

This is what you need;

Note: 2000 ITR part numbers listed:

Timing belt (126RU26) # 14400-P72-014 qt.1 Note: This would be a good time to upgrade to a stronger timing belt if you are running bigger cams or have plans too.

Timing belt cover, Back # 11840-P72-010 qt.1
Back timing belt cover gasket # 11832-P72-000 qt.1 Note: B16A gasket will not work!!!!!! Looks similar but itís different.

Timing belt cover, Upper # 11820-P72-000 qt.1
Lower Timing belt cover # 11810-P72-A00 qt.1 Note: B16A should work but if you replacing all the others why not get a new lower one to match Detail is everything
Engine mounting bracket seal A #11925-P30-000 Note: B16A gasket should work.
Engine mounting bracket seal B #11926-P30-000 Note: B16A gasket should work.

Things to consider replacing:

New timing belt adjuster: 14510-P30-003 qt.1
New timing belt adjuster spring: 14516-PR4-A00 qt.1
New crank pulley bolt: 90017-PR3-003 qt.1
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Now lets talk about the head.

If you are doing this swap your self you need to keep your parts in order, especially when pulling the head. You end up replace some parts along the way but keep all the old parts. You can never have enough extra parts lying around.

Head boltsÖÖ.do I need new ones or can I use my B16A ones????????

YOU CANíT USE YOUR B16A HEAD BOLTS!!!!! At least that is what Iím going to tell you. You will never see me reuse OEM head bolts if I pulled the head. Another thing, the B16A head bolts are shorter then B18C head bolts. The last thing you want is to have a head bolt not torque down properly and then you have a leaky head gasket. It might never happen but why risk it.

Head gasketÖÖ.can I reuse my B16A one???? It would fit but NO you canít reuse it. Get your self a new OEM one or consider going with a thinner one for a small bump in compression. You can even purchase a new OEM head gasket, remove the middle layer, put everything back together and have a cheep thin head gasket. Search this forum for more info on how you can do that

What else should I consider replacing in the head????

There are a few small O-rings that need to be replaced, cam seals, cam cap, etc.

One of the O-rings that you should replace is found under the center cam holder. This O-ring sits around a dowel pin. DONíT LOSE THIS DOWL PIN!!!! Trust me, if you are ordering parts order your self an extra one of these dowel pins. Nothing is worse then going to put everything back together and you misplace that dowel pin. Order an extra one its cheep.

There are two other O-rings on the upper part of the head. They are located on the cam gear side of the head, under the two end cam gear holders, around the intake and exhaust VTEC oil orifices. Now these O-rings are actually recessed a bit. So if you donít disturb them you should not have to worry about replacing them. But if you want to be anal about things, then go for it.

There is one other O-ring that is found under the head in the block. It is around the oil control orifice for the head. This one you do not need to replace because your new ITR short block comes with one installed for you. But I will still list the part # for you guys.

HmmmÖÖwhat elseÖÖ.cam seals. Now some people might not agree with me on this but I will tell you what I did. If you are pulling off your cam gears, now is a perfect time to replace your cam seals. In my case, I did not pull my cam gears off when doing the swap and my cam seals were in great condition, so I reused my cam seals. I have never had a problem when doing this, as long as you keep a close eye on things, i.e. looking for oil leaks, then you should be fine.

The seal/cap that is found on the disibutor end of the exhaust cam should be replace. When installing the new cap, put Honda-bond around the O-ring found on the cap. This will give you a nice seal.
There is an O-Ring located on the distributor that might need replacing. You should also replace the old filter screen found in your VTEC solenoid.

Replace your intake manifold gasket if you pulled your intake manifold off. You donít need to pull the IM off when doing this swap. You only need to if you are switching to the ITR IM.

Head parts and part numbers:

Note: all part numbers are Honda Si part numbers unless specified other wise.

Head bolts (2000 ITR part number): 90006-P72-003 qt: 10

Head gasket : 12251-P30-014 qt: 1 (save old head gasket. Good to have around if you plan to clay the head)
Dowel pin (under center cam holder): 90701-679-000 qt: 1 (only need one but good to have an extra one. Small parts are easily lost
O-Ring (under center cam holder): 91302-GE0-000 qt. 1
O-Ring for intake and exhaust rocker orifice: 91306-PJ4-000 qt.2
O-Ring found under the head, around the oil control orifice: 15142-PH3-003 qt 1 (ITR short block comes with this O-Ring installed)
O-Ring (located on distributor): 30110-PA1-732
Cam seals: 91213-PR3-004 qt.2
Seal (distributor side of exhaust cam): 12513-P72-003 qt.1
VTEC solenoid filter: 15825-P08-005
Intake manifold gasket: 17105-P30-004
Throttle body gasket (2000 ITR part number): 16176-P73-004

Ok that should do it for head and timing belt area. Now I will go over the rest of the change over.

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I will start with the transmission. Everything fits and bolts up, transmission, clutch, flywheel, axles and half shaft. One tip, use blue Loctite on the flywheel bolts and pressure plate bolts.

All engine mounts will work but if yours have some miles on them now would be the perfect time to change to some new ones. Mugen and Spoon mount kits are great kits to consider.

I did notice one thing about the stock Si breather tank located on the back of the block. The Si breather tank fits just fine but the bolthole lines up with a different hole, a bigger hole. The proper hole looks like itís located up and to the left of the stock Si hole location. Now the hole that the stock Si breather tank lines up with a hole the ITR block, but it looks like this location is used for the intake manifold bracket. Iím not using my bracket so this hole was not being used. All I did was drill the hole out bigger on the stock Si breather tank and found the proper size bolt and bolted it up.

Stock radiator works and stock radiator hoses work. Now we all know that the ITR comes with a bigger radiator so you might be wondering if the Si one is going to keep things cool enough. With a Spoon thermostat, fan switch and rad cap my temps are no different then before. So you make the call.

Stock Si fuel line, fuel rail and injectors all work.

Stock Si distributor works.

If you want to keep your power steering you can, it bolts up.

AC should work but I ripped my out a long time ago so Iím not positive on that.

Will my header and intake fit??? Well the block is taller so if you have a header made for the B16 it most likely will not fit and if it does itís going to be a very tight fit. Same goes for a CAI. Because your block is taller it is going to make your CAI sit up higher. It might not sit perfect. If you are running a short ram you should be good. Even my ARC fit perfect.

Ok now that you have everything what is the best way to brake in this setup.

Lest talk assembly and brake in tips.

First tip comes with assembling the head. Once you have the head bolted onto the new block, now is a perfect time to fill hear up with oil. Why now you may ask. With the head disassembled (no cams installed) you have the perfect opportunity to properly lubricate the valve train. Flip all the rocker arms up in the upward positions, exposing the valve springs and retainers. Take some non-detergent 30w oil and poor each quart over every valve spring, retainer and valve guide. Do this with every quart of oil you put into the motor, until you get your desired quart capacity in the oil pan. This coats the upper valve stems liberally with oil, which you donít get when just filling the engine from the valve cover. Flip the rockers down in the sitting position, sometimes you have to push the VTEC pins back in as they tend to push out, no biggie. Then install the cams and coat the cams good with break in lube.

BTW, a tip on the oil filter. Fill it once, spin it around a few times so the oil soaks into the media. Fill it a second time and let is sit so the oil soaks into the media. Then install the filter.

When it comes time to start the new motor leave the spark plug wires off and turn the engine over a couple of revolutions to prime the oil system. Doing this ensures all the oil system is primed before the engine is under load. This also brings oil up into the head. Then let it rip after that.

Thanks Joey for all tips!!!

This is how I broke my motor in;

Drive it easy for the first 500 miles. Stay under 5500rpms or so and try not to go over 50% throttle. Change the oil out after 500 miles and then move on to some Gastrol GTX 5w-30 oil. Start to drive it a bit harder. I took it up to VTEC once at this point just to make sure it was working properly. Once I hit it I let off. I changed the oil again after 500 more miles. At this point I started to get on it, short full throttle runs, taking it a bit higher in the Rís and going into VTEC more often. Iím going to change the oil again after 500 more miles and at this point Iím going to consider running synthetic. It might be a bit soon to run synthetic but my vale train is way loud when Iím not using synthetic and itís driving me crazy.

Some of you might have been told take it a bit easer on a new motor or to brake it in a bit different. But I can tell you this, I was not this nice to my stock B16 when I first got my Si and that motor ran STRONG every day. No problems.

Well that is about all I can think of at this time. I might have missed a few small things so post up some questions and I will try and answer them. Good luck on your swap and I hope this guide helped you along the way.

WoW that was a lot of typing.
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#33708 - 09/23/03 03:07 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
SiRkid Offline
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Coles notes???????
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#33709 - 09/23/03 03:11 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
zc911 Offline
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Quote:

Coles notes???????





It bolts in
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#33710 - 09/23/03 09:19 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
kengs Offline
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thanx Scott
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#33711 - 09/23/03 10:23 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
Stein Offline
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Registered: 05/24/03
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Loc: Rip City
Good post, I'm wondering though, can you get a complete shortblock and an ITR head from the Acura dealer, right?
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#33712 - 09/23/03 11:47 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
RuggedCivicSI Offline
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Posts: 2343
Loc: Southern Cali
Quote:

Good post, I'm wondering though, can you get a complete shortblock and an ITR head from the Acura dealer, right?




yes you can, i believe the itr head isn't assemblied though so there goes more money....and expect to spend more than a pretty penny for them both.
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#33713 - 09/23/03 11:50 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
00Blue Offline
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Registered: 06/28/02
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Loc: simi valley CA
Quote:

Good post, I'm wondering though, can you get a complete shortblock and an ITR head from the Acura dealer, right?




so you want the full motor minus the tranny??

yes you can.. but as he said the head isnt assembled.. although its pretty easy to do.. but for that kind of money you could buy a used b18c5 with tranny and ecu for less.
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#33714 - 09/23/03 11:53 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
RuggedCivicSI Offline
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Registered: 02/08/02
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Quote:

Quote:

Good post, I'm wondering though, can you get a complete shortblock and an ITR head from the Acura dealer, right?




so you want the full motor minus the tranny??

yes you can.. but as he said the head isnt assembled.. although its pretty easy to do.. but for that kind of money you could buy a used b18c5 with tranny and ecu for less.




yup, but also remember that you will need to buy a intake manifold and throttle body ( the b16 will also fit but with the b18C5 ecu would cause you to run lean) and so will the tranny.......but you might as well buy a used one complete.
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#33715 - 09/23/03 11:58 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
00Blue Offline
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exactly what i was thinking.. if he buys a used ITR motor.. it comes fully complete with intake manifold and the ITR tranny... with the itr ecu.. and it would probably be cheaper then buying the head and block alone from acura.
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#33716 - 09/24/03 01:48 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
UxiSi Offline
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Registered: 02/12/01
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Nice! Much better than the previous 5 ITR block swap posts from CSi NA Tuning that I have saved for info so I can prepare for when this can finally happen for me.
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#33717 - 09/24/03 05:52 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
Stein Offline
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Well, I was just thinking about flow.. before I get a C5, I'd replace the intake with a J's Racing, IM, header, so basically all I would need was the block. The way I understand it is that the B16 head is exactly the same as a C5 head, minus cams and mild P&P head, but now that I think about it, after I dropped a C5 engine in there, it would be long before I dropped new cams and did some head work on it, so scratch the head question .
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#33718 - 09/26/03 10:47 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
samkarp Offline
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Registered: 02/11/00
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Quote:

WoW that was a lot of typing.



Hahahahaha thats funny. Just wait you woman! I have my little 28-page word document about crank and rod angles in forced induced motors. Or I can just talk about autocross, baseball or Formula One.

BTW-good post(like I read it )
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#33719 - 09/29/03 10:37 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
SiRkid Offline
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baseball [homer] BOORRRRRRRING[/homer]

anyways, I thought people already knew that an ITR shortblock, gsr, LS whatever. could swap into any b series motor'd car.
*shrugs shoulders*
good post though!
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#33720 - 10/03/03 11:18 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
surubasi00 Offline
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post some more about doing the swap itself, got any pictures?
Dave
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#33721 - 10/03/03 10:31 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
MadtownSi Offline
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Quote:

post some more about doing the swap itself, got any pictures?
Dave




What more do you need to know??? I thought I did a good job with this post........maybe not......
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#33722 - 10/04/03 04:19 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
surubasi00 Offline
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you covered it with the po man post, thatnks. I will hit you up in IM if I have any more q's
Dave
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#33723 - 10/06/03 11:11 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
BoRedRaceR702 Offline
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Quote:

you covered it with the po man post, thatnks. I will hit you up in IM if I have any more q's
Dave




Yup everything is all covered here except the actual how to on installation. But if you don't know the basics about fixing a car then I'ld suggest you take it to someone who does know what they are doing.

BTW nice detailed post! Thanks for all the info/part numbers...
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#33724 - 10/30/03 08:56 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
tampablksi Offline
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is there any difference between dropping in the b18c5 and b18c1 block in the si or are all the steps the same? like parts needed and other stuff.i didn't see it addressed i am sorry if it has.
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#33725 - 11/02/03 12:08 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
93solsi Offline
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as far as getting the oil system primed.... pull the plugs as so there is no compression when priming. this allows less friction on the bearings when turning the motor over with no oil pressure
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#33726 - 11/05/03 08:03 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
TwiztedCelica Offline
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how much would a new ITR short block cost??
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#33727 - 11/05/03 06:55 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
surubasi00 Offline
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I got mine for 2100 plus tax at Acura of Augusta
Dave
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#33728 - 11/05/03 07:31 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
RuggedCivicSI Offline
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Quote:

I got mine for 2100 plus tax at Acura of Augusta
Dave




basically around what he bought it for but you also gotta remeber about the lil mis. things that you are gonna need......
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#33729 - 11/07/03 01:57 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
MadtownSi Offline
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Registered: 02/03/00
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Quote:

Quote:

I got mine for 2100 plus tax at Acura of Augusta
Dave




basically around what he bought it for but you also gotta remeber about the lil mis. things that you are gonna need......




Any time you do a swap you are going to need miscellaneous parts. You canít avoid it
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#33730 - 12/04/03 06:23 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
hoopla14 Offline
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Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 154
good write up.....

this swap is not a firsttimer try it though!

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#33731 - 12/04/03 09:22 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
Runnin@Redline Offline
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Registered: 10/29/99
Posts: 647
Loc: Midwest
so are you going to bring it to autox this next year?
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#33732 - 12/05/03 02:32 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
MadtownSi Offline
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Quote:

so are you going to bring it to autox this next year?




Yes, Yes and YES!!!
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#33733 - 01/05/04 12:09 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
aleksey2k4 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 22
if i put a usdm b18c5 in my 99-00 si will it be legal ?
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#33734 - 01/05/04 12:13 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
RuggedCivicSI Offline
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Quote:

if i put a usdm b18c5 in my 99-00 si will it be legal ?




depends on the state's law concerning motor swaps. You should really check them out.
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#33735 - 01/26/04 10:21 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
Sleeper_EM1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/04
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How similar (not talking about the internals) is the B18c1 compared to the b18c5 IN INSTLALLATION!
Not what are the differences between the motors, but simply installing it on the 99-00 Si.
I think I can get my hands on a b18c1 (95 obd1) shortie but I havea few questions for you.
(Sorry if it's covered but I did read most of your writing Im also in my class and could onyl breifly glance and quickly write up these questionsI have for you):

The alternator fits ok from the b16a2?
Also pumps, do they simply bolt on no problem?
Oil pan?

And one question following up on your write up.
Why didnt you use the b18c's head gasket, this kinda confused me because in LS/VTEC you MUST use the b18a/b's head gasket.
You said it fits ok, but did you pick the b16a's over the b18c's?

Also talking internals now instead of external swapped bolt ons...
Did you use your usdm b16a pistons and rods or kept with the b18c5's?
Won't the b16s bump the compression slightly??

ONCE AGAIN, this is compared to the b18c1 and the b16a2, not the type-R swap, although I am asking because the motors are comparatively similar, and the knowledge here is good.

Thanks, back to class!


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#33736 - 02/21/04 02:18 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
Chaos69 Offline
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Registered: 03/20/03
Posts: 1683
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Quote:

Dowel pin (under center cam holder): 90701-679-000 qt: 1 (only need one but good to have an extra one. Small parts are easily lost
O-Ring (under center cam holder): 91302-GE0-000 qt. 1
O-Ring for intake and exhaust rocker orifice: 91306-PJ4-000 qt.2
O-Ring found under the head, around the oil control orifice: 15142-PH3-003 qt 1 (ITR short block comes with this O-Ring installed)
O-Ring (located on distributor): 30110-PA1-732
Cam seals: 91213-PR3-004 qt.2
Seal (distributor side of exhaust cam): 12513-P72-003 qt.1
VTEC solenoid filter: 15825-P08-005
Intake manifold gasket: 17105-P30-004





Would these part numbers be the same for a B18C ? Or would I have to get different parts for the GSR motor?
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#33737 - 02/26/04 10:01 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
cvclover Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 07/23/02
Posts: 7311
Loc: NYC
Does that include the part number for the water pipe? I didnt see that included in the list of stuff to get

If I get a thinner head gasket, the compression goes up with NO other work involved?

Also, with a head with 113k miles, is it safe to put it on a C5 block? Putting on a skunk or ITR IM would make it just like an ITR setup right? (besides the cams and P&P)

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#33738 - 03/17/04 05:29 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
RareSI Offline
Post Master


Registered: 10/02/00
Posts: 2443
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
Quote:

Does that include the part number for the water pipe? I didnt see that included in the list of stuff to get




He had it listed... It was on the first set of parts:

Connecting pipe #19505-PR3-000

Quote:


If I get a thinner head gasket, the compression goes up with NO other work involved?




That is correct.

Quote:


Also, with a head with 113k miles, is it safe to put it on a C5 block? Putting on a skunk or ITR IM would make it just like an ITR setup right? (besides the cams and P&P)




Why wouldn't it be safe? The answer to your second question: Yes.
_________________________

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#33739 - 04/20/04 12:00 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
137 Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 40913
REPLY TO THIS POST...
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#33740 - 04/22/04 11:45 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
surubasi00 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 01/07/03
Posts: 3792
Loc: VA
I REPLIED TO THAT POST>>>
_________________________
Turns out my dog is allergic to peanuts. - FortCollins

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#33741 - 04/27/04 12:27 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
ClVlCsi Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 113
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Two questions, Do you necessarily have to buy a brand new shortblock or can it be used..I was just kind of wondering because you sounded like you emphasized it being new..and second what kind of whp were you looking at after all the work..very curious because I want to see if it would be worth it for me to invest in..Thank you for all the info and nice write up.

-Josh
_________________________
2000 CBP Civic Si



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#33742 - 04/27/04 04:25 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
137 Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 40913
for peace of mind I would get new... but for a build up project I would buy used.
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#33743 - 04/27/04 04:49 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
Mouse_Si Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 6336
Loc: your girlfriends bed
Quote:

for peace of mind I would get new... but for a build up project I would buy used.





and that is exactly why i went with the "NEW" great minds think alike
_________________________


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#33744 - 05/05/04 04:54 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
SlickBlk_Si Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 01/30/04
Posts: 158
Loc: San Jose, CA
Question about a few things that were not mentioned, either for lack of concern when building the engine or it was just simply left out. When putting in a shortblock and using the SI head, if I were to use ITR cams would I see similar HP figures such as the 170-180 average whp as the type R or will the lack of ITR IM and P and P have a significant effect on the amount of HP produced.

Also, and what my first statement was truly reffering to: what about electronics for the new shortblock? The displacement has change, hasn't the amount of fuel and timing ect needed to be adapated to the new set-up? Meaning, if you use the stock SI ECU are you going to ping or run lean, or do you need to invest in either OB1 Hondata set-up or is the ITR ECU necesssary for a good running and reliable vehicle. Also, if using the SI ECU would you be loosing potential HP? I am very close to making this a reality, but I really need to see what the final cost will be and the difficulty.
_________________________
00 Si

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#33745 - 06/28/04 06:33 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
yeah me. am I blind or did I miss what ECU to use??????????

im thinking an ITR ecu is needed(makes sense)
_________________________

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#33746 - 06/29/04 12:57 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
surubasi00 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 01/07/03
Posts: 3792
Loc: VA
i used my Si ecu for a while (2 months) and managed a 14.2 with it...i do recommend getting a hondata or at least a chipped and tuned OBD1 ecu

Dave
_________________________
Turns out my dog is allergic to peanuts. - FortCollins

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#33747 - 07/05/04 07:53 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
stock Si head with itr bottom got you a 14.2? on Si computer? thats pretty risky though(the computer)
_________________________

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#33748 - 08/08/04 05:47 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
00-Si-in-red Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/02/00
Posts: 10343
Loc: KZOO!
is all the same parts needed for a b18c1 head?

and, wont i be able to reuse the same timing belt and covers though?
_________________________
AIM = GSRisJDM

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#33749 - 08/14/04 02:52 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
judd Offline
Member


Registered: 12/21/99
Posts: 938
Loc: Lomita, Ca.
finally got the block $1900 out the door from South coast acura

hope to get 200whp
_________________________
It's not how you stand by your car, its how you Race it.

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#33750 - 09/14/04 10:27 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
RyCeRoCkEtZ Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5553
Loc: NorCal, FrisCo, Bay Area!
Anyone have a clue how much it'll cost to get a brand ITR block and head all together? If possible I'll just build a ITR motor then.
_________________________
'00 EBP EM1 Si (K inspired) - Present, soon to be gone...
'05 TYB YZF R6 - sold 09-19-2007, you will be missed..
'08 TYB YZF R6 - 02-12-08
fAsT cAr aRe fOr dRaG rAcInG
fAsT dRiVeR aRe foR aUtOcRoSs

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#33751 - 09/17/04 02:37 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
fearmysi Offline
Newbie


Registered: 09/17/04
Posts: 7
Loc: stockton california
instead of a b18 +b16 head.. .... how about everybody try to do a b20vtec... i have a successfull..love story it. did it all myself. ran a good 12.9 at sac. raceway. and the whole swap only costed meeh. 2500.. that's the whole long block. i mean .. the head the block the oil line the head gasket the oil pump. the tranny. and the axles. COME ON ASK MEEH HOW..
_________________________
dont question meeh "RACE ME"

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#33752 - 09/21/04 05:32 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
SeanJohn1802 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 12/16/02
Posts: 3136
Loc: Stockton, CA
how much does it cost total when you walk away from acura?
_________________________

ē 2006 Honda Civic [color=gray]EX[/color] |[aka Mr. Chunky]| (under warranty)
ē http://www.NorCalFG.com

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#33753 - 09/28/04 10:37 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
RyCeRoCkEtZ Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5553
Loc: NorCal, FrisCo, Bay Area!
How much will it cost for a complete ITR Head and Block?
_________________________
'00 EBP EM1 Si (K inspired) - Present, soon to be gone...
'05 TYB YZF R6 - sold 09-19-2007, you will be missed..
'08 TYB YZF R6 - 02-12-08
fAsT cAr aRe fOr dRaG rAcInG
fAsT dRiVeR aRe foR aUtOcRoSs

Top
#33754 - 10/23/04 09:43 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
JoeB16 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 5809
Loc: in front of my computer
so given all the parts are brande new (short block, internals, gaskets, studs/connectors, head, valves, and what not) with upgraded valve train parts, and agressive cams (Stage 2, Jun 3) what is the same max RPM operating conditions for a B18C5/B16A2 combo, given a stock thickness head gasket and proper tuning is used? Also, what RPMs would one be shooting for with this specific set up?

I will also have a JDM ITR exhaust manifold. Soon after will be upgrading to a free flow cat, and 2.25" cat back, allong with a ITR/Skunk 2 intake manifold and 70-74mm TB. I figured that would be too large, but my engine isnt a stgandard B18... or B18 for that mater... And thats what my builder reccomended.
_________________________
my hybrid EM1 - It's still slow.

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#33755 - 01/30/05 05:26 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
626CivicSi Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 102
I want a ITR Short block for $1900! man guys please give me the number to which acura and who you spoke to because I seriously want to do that to my Si but Alhambra quoted me $3,300 and some shop, won't say name, wants $3,000 for a used JDM ITR Block! gotta be kidding me. Please PM me with info so I can get that setup quick. I am planning on getting a piggy back system with the block so please pm me with some names and phone numbers.
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#33756 - 02/01/05 04:54 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
1320JDMGSR Offline
Newbie


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 23
Loc: California, U.S.A.
good job man. that setup should be producing some serious power. good for low 13's.
_________________________
http://www.trackspeedracing.com "Honda and Acura Drag Racing Parts Specialist"

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#33757 - 02/01/05 10:23 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
UxiSi Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/12/01
Posts: 24478
Loc: Southern California
Serious, I don't know how you guys are pulling those deals. I tried two So Cal Dealers and both wanted ~$2900.

What is cost on these things from Honda?
_________________________
------------------------------
UxiSi
2000 EBP Civic Si


"Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their death." -- James Madison

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#33758 - 04/26/05 02:12 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
surubasi00 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 01/07/03
Posts: 3792
Loc: VA
this needs to be re-stickied....why did it get un stickied?

Dave
_________________________
Turns out my dog is allergic to peanuts. - FortCollins

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#33759 - 04/26/05 09:34 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
shane two Offline
Member


Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 837
Loc: South Valley
Quote:

i used my Si ecu for a while (2 months) and managed a 14.2 with it...i do recommend getting a hondata or at least a chipped and tuned OBD1 ecu

Dave




A local guy got CTR cams and the itr shortblock deal put into his motor for liek 3000 dollars..... at his 'mechanic.'

And since he and his mechanics know nothing about cars, he didn't cahnge anything. Just paid the mechanics to rebuild his motor (that he ruined by not putting oil in).

So he drives around for awhile and a couple of months later doesn't know why his motor blew up



LOL


Let me clafiry. Guy buys civic si. Guy mods the FUCK out of it with EVERY bolt on, from fuel rails to stickers to covers to headers to everything. full msd everything. stock though, lol. He wanted 'stock reliability' So he ruins the motor by running it low on oil....


Pays a mechanic 3000 dollars to have an itr shortblock installed, along with crt cams and doesn't touch the ecu fuel or even his msd ;-) You get the rest now
_________________________
"My Si, when it was stock was a low 15 second car..."

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#33760 - 04/26/05 01:32 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
Jrome99SIR Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 132
Loc: winnipeg MB
STICKY!!!!!
_________________________
There are Four services in this world Police-Fire-Ambulance and TECH Support WELCOME TO HELL SPYWARE REMOVAL TOOLS and MUCH MORE www.supportcave.com

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#33761 - 04/27/05 02:30 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
137 Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 40913
up because its slowly falling down.
Top
#33762 - 05/05/05 03:46 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
JoeB16 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 5809
Loc: in front of my computer
Quote:

I want a ITR Short block for $1900! man guys please give me the number to which acura and who you spoke to because I seriously want to do that to my Si but Alhambra quoted me $3,300 and some shop, won't say name, wants $3,000 for a used JDM ITR Block! gotta be kidding me. Please PM me with info so I can get that setup quick. I am planning on getting a piggy back system with the block so please pm me with some names and phone numbers.




Ask for Stan at South Coast Acura 714-979-2500. If he isnt there ask for the manager. I got mine, brand new straight out of the crate, for 2222.22 + tax. And thats the complete assembly. Oil pan, all the pumps, pullies, everything but the head and tranny. I was also quoted 1300 for a breand new DC2 ITR tranny, my choice of 98 00 or 01.
_________________________
my hybrid EM1 - It's still slow.

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#33763 - 05/15/05 05:06 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
TranZenD si 209 Offline
Major Member


Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 1473
Loc: Stockton, CA
a month ago a las vegas honda dealer ship was selling a complete short block for 2000.. i was going to get it but.. i had to pay bills.
_________________________
2000 MR SI, Ready! Set! Go! AIM - swtguy2luvu Email - anekin007@yahoo.com

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#33764 - 05/20/05 08:29 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
xxGreenxx Offline
Poster


Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 285
Loc: Hawaii
sort of a thread jack but how much do new GSR shortblocks run for?
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#33765 - 05/21/05 03:03 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
surubasi00 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 01/07/03
Posts: 3792
Loc: VA
they go for almost exactly the same price, get the ITR, it's better anyways

Dave
_________________________
Turns out my dog is allergic to peanuts. - FortCollins

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#33766 - 05/21/05 10:17 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
xxGreenxx Offline
Poster


Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 285
Loc: Hawaii
really? that sucks. okay, I have to get a second job first though...lol.
Top
#33767 - 05/31/05 06:50 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
DOOBAY Offline
Major Member


Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 1478
Loc: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
I just completed my Type R swap, and one thing to add it that you have to change the drivers engine mount on the block. Use the one from the B16 block on the R block. Also I found there was an extra hole on the ITR manifold, so I have to plug it up, beside the coolant line. Last thing was the sensor on the manifold that doesnt get use, I think it for the air temp sensor, since the SiR has it on the intake instead. Hope that helps
_________________________
00 VSM SiR- Sold \:\(
05 DC5 Type S \:\)

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#33768 - 06/03/05 09:53 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
Winston Offline
Newbie


Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 10
Loc: sunny cali
I too have completed my swap finally after having this block for a year. I noticed for us here in the US with the stock 99/00 SI. You dont have to buy all the timing covers, you do have to buy a new top one, one for 1.8L GSR or type R. For those that want to keep P/S and A/C, it works but theres this piece of bracket (plate) that does not fit back on, due to the fact that the short block is taller, so its 4mm off, but its safe to leave out, I think its used to support the PS pump for vibration. I tried to shave the top of my Exhaust manifold that hits the oil pan, still it wont fit. So you definately need a B18 header (dont know how im going to pass smog with the JDM 4-1). And you do have to drill the bracket whole of the black box (back part of the block, its for emissions <exhaust gas>) in order to fit a new size bolt that fits in the block I think it 10X1.25 not sure; but do remove the bracket that holds the black box and Intake manifold, believe me, you cannot use this anymore due to the increase in size of the block it does not even reach the bottom of the manifold. And taking this out will give you easier access to bolt back the intake manifold. Thats about all I can think of. Oh might as well put some ES for your mounts, its worth doing while the motor is out. its easy. Remember this is not an overnight swap, took me forever to finish mine. So you need a spare car. Hardest part of the swap for me is removing the axles, and the bitch pin. Tips: if your doing it at home you need a cherry picker (rent it buy it) its good to have. Even though the bitch pin was hard, I managed to take it out with a roll pin punch 1/4 is the right size or 8mm if you can find; you dont need a heavy hammer, I had a 4lbs shit still dont work, i got it out with a carpenters hammer. I recomend jacking your car as high as your stands will go; to have more access to hammer that thing. Putting the engine back on the car, you dont need a tilter. Just balance the chains to the engine and remember to start bolting the back engine mount first, this will make things easier for everyone. Thats all I think of, this was a fairly easy swap because I just practically replaced the block. Its plug and play. Oh last but not least, use baggies to put your nuts and bolts and etc. and mark them where they go. and use tape and marker to tape engine harness before unplugging them. Thanx to the original poster of this swap, I couldnt think it was that easy. His part numbers are important so do copy and paste it somewhere. I bought my block at Falconi's Acura, its in vegas, runs for 2,000. they sell it there all day for that price, thats the cheapest I found. And if you buy from them and your out of state its tax free.
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#33769 - 07/22/05 03:07 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
RyCeRoCkEtZ Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5553
Loc: NorCal, FrisCo, Bay Area!
would a b16 comptech header bolt on to the C5 block?
_________________________
'00 EBP EM1 Si (K inspired) - Present, soon to be gone...
'05 TYB YZF R6 - sold 09-19-2007, you will be missed..
'08 TYB YZF R6 - 02-12-08
fAsT cAr aRe fOr dRaG rAcInG
fAsT dRiVeR aRe foR aUtOcRoSs

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#33770 - 07/30/05 01:30 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
Winston Offline
Newbie


Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 10
Loc: sunny cali
I doubt.,,, you have to use a b18 header to clear the block. if your from cali, i suggest get a USDM type R exhaust manifold. heheeh for smog and stuff.
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#33771 - 07/31/05 06:41 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
CivicVTi Offline
Sr Member


Registered: 12/02/99
Posts: 1176
Loc: Athens , Greece
The stock Si manifold also worked for me until I got my JDM header. It was close to the oil pan though.
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#33772 - 08/01/05 02:01 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
JoeB16 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 5809
Loc: in front of my computer
about the timing covers. its a crock of shit. it doesnt match up PERFECTLY, but there isnt even a GAP! Its not not completly seated together. no way dirt can get in there.

i didnt bother to get a different timing cover and neither should you unless you are some anal show car fuckwad.
_________________________
my hybrid EM1 - It's still slow.

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#33773 - 08/02/05 12:54 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
#Tuna No Crust Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 4729
Loc: 3 lights ahead of you (FL)
for the people who have done this swap, what kind of power are you guys making?

lets just say with type R cams and i guess ~10.8 compression, and some tunning...

is it close to a stock b18c5?
_________________________
Your beginnings will seem humble, so prosperous will your future be......

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#33774 - 08/02/05 06:09 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
CivicVTi Offline
Sr Member


Registered: 12/02/99
Posts: 1176
Loc: Athens , Greece
The HP with CTR cams should be similar to the b18c5. The only thing stealing HP is the head and intake valves (the factory ITR head has been reworked by Honda) but I do not think it's more than 4whp. The ITR intake manifold does not add HP but helps maintain high HP numbers above 8000rpm. A 99si with a b18c5 block, CTR cams and a decent header (DC 4-1 JDM for example) should be really close to a stock b18c5.
_________________________
Honda Civic VTi '95 EG6 hatch (stock B16A2) B18C6 specR swap (Euro)

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#33775 - 08/02/05 06:48 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Quote:

How much will it cost for a complete ITR Head and Block?



In essence, a ITR motor, seen them go for $4500 here in FL.

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#33776 - 08/30/05 11:48 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
CuttingEdge Offline
Newbie


Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 50
Loc: SF Bay Area
i replied as well.
Top
#33777 - 08/31/05 12:36 AM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
Quote:

i replied as well.



all ur litlle annoying posts everywhere are getting real annoying. stop trying to build ur post count noob
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

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#33778 - 11/13/05 06:06 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
PurduinaSi Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 7857
Loc: Westchester, NY
Did anyone who did this swap re-use their AC? I want to know if I am going to need a new AC bracket due to the block being taller.
_________________________



Top
#33779 - 11/13/05 08:24 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
surubasi00 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 01/07/03
Posts: 3792
Loc: VA
nah everything fits you dont need a new A/C bracket


good luck dude!

Dave
_________________________
Turns out my dog is allergic to peanuts. - FortCollins

Top
#33780 - 03/31/06 08:26 PM Re: **New ITR short block into 99/00 Si post!!!!!****
D to the P Offline
Newbie


Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 14
Loc: Jersey
my b16 blew up a few months back, so i'm in the process of getting a new itr head and block from a dealer and slapping it all together. theres a lot of great info in here...thanks guys.
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