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#32344 - 02/26/04 04:10 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
htownsleeper25 Offline
Newbie


Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 11
Loc: Houston, Tx
Ok samkarp somebody asked this question in the beginning but u answered via pm. I would like to know who is the better of the 2 cams, Skunk2 stage 1 or TODA spec A?
Break it down for me like u did Jun3\toda b question.

Thanks
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99 SI, AEM cai, DC 4-2-1, HKS Hi-power, MSD 6a, ACT xtss

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#32345 - 02/27/04 02:00 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
SiBuddy00 Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 476
Sam, I rally need some help! How do you tell if spoon cams are real or not? I can't find the Spec Sheet anywhere! Is there any way? I don't wanna get scammed. Thanks!
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#32346 - 02/27/04 09:42 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
htownsleeper25-The differences are not huge. They are going to offer the same type of gains both on and off VTEC. IMO it comes down to money. As I said in the guide, the Stage 1's are great for a budget B16A owner. You do not need to upgrade the valvetrain if you stick with the stock revlimit and really all you need is some cam gears a VAFC and some tuning. The TODA's more aggressive lift on the exhaust cam may give a tad more power but also it means that the stock B16A2 springs will likely bind. Thus, you need to purchase ITR valvetrain. This adds money to the parts cost and install cost. Thus, if you have a B16A2 and want a simple cam that will work the the stock valvetrain and ECU, the Stage 1 is the cam for you. If you are an ITR owner, the TODA will be more appealing as the needed valvetrain and ECU modifications are not needed. If you are a B16A owner opening up the head anyway to do a spring and retainer install and are getting a new ECU for higher revs, I would not recommend either cam. IMO, go with a slightly bigger cam like the Stage 2, Type II or best, the TODA B.

SiBuddy00-I got your PM and I thought I relpied but we are having PM issues along with internet issues at work so I will reply here. I have never used a micrometer before so I am unsure on its use. I saw cams being measured once it was done with lasers and digitally if I remember (very cool, it was at the Jaguar plant in Coventry, GB a few years back). Measure the VTEC lobe as that was the lobe listed in the guide. I have no idea on how to identify the cams as I have never seen one in person. I got the specs for those cams off of websites and confirmed with either Shawn at Sound Buys or Dan at Godspeed (forgot, it was a long time ago).
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32347 - 02/28/04 06:41 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
SiBuddy00 Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 476
Do you think a shop could measure them for me? If they charged how much would it be? I could measure the VTEC lobes like you said and see if it matches the results in the forum here. I'm kinda nervous about buying them but I would REALLY like to get them, Just wanna be positive that I'm getting what I think I am.
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#32348 - 04/19/04 01:49 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
jpsEPBSi Offline
Major Member


Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 1305
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
micrometor's are simple to use, I just don't know how to pull measurements off a cam..
Anyhow I've got an offer for some CTR cams for 200, the guy is also selling aem gears and a vafc with em' if I'm interested. could probably be a good deal at a cheap price or should I save a little and go skunk 2 stage one or II. I really just want a little more outa the b16 with I/H/E.. I'd rather buy brand new spend more money and have better worthwhile powergains I'm just not sure how great ctr cams will be..
Thanks in advance,
Justin
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#32349 - 05/11/04 01:31 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
Si_Guy2000 Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 370
Loc: North Dakota
I have a mostly stock 2000 Si B16A2. My bolts ons are AEM CAI, DC Sports 4-2-1 header, 5Zigen axle-back exhaust. I was considering Cams, Cam Gears and possibly a VAFC. My Question is what cams are recommended for my setup up?
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2004 Onyx Black GMC Sierra Crew Cab Z71 - K&N FIPK, Edelbrock Headers, Superchips Tuned, Airaid Throttle Body Spacer, Magnaflow Catback Exhaust, Billet Grille, Custom Painted Mirrors, Denali Projector Headlights, Cadillac Escalade Door Handles and Tailgate Handle, GM Optional 20's, More Coming Soon...

2003 DSG Mustang SVT Cobra - 509whp 530wtq
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2000 EBP Civic Si
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#32350 - 05/11/04 08:57 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
If you are planning on just getting cams, cam gears and a VAFC and NOT upgrading the valvetrain and ECU, then a mild cam would be the only ones to use.

CTR/ITR or a mild aftermarket cam like the Skunk2 Stage 1 or JUN Type 1 would be the best bet. They can use the stock rev limit and valvetrain. They are simply installed and tuned with the cam gears along with the VAFC.
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32351 - 05/16/04 09:11 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
vtec_yosh Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 152
Ok, Im torn. I have decided that I am going to do cams/cam gears/valvetrain/ECU/and possibly VFAC on my 99 Si. An eagle stroker kit may also be in the very near future.

What Im torn on is spending $450.00 on a new set of CTR cams or shelling out another $200 and going with the wilder Skunk2 stage 2. I guess Im looking for baout the same thing as a lot of people on here, in that I want a 200whp NA Si.

With that in mind, any reccomendations?
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#32352 - 05/17/04 11:20 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
If you plan on doing it all (cams, valvetrain, ECU, etc) then go with the the Skunk2 Stage 2's. They have a much higher power potential than CTR cams. You will have trouble getting 200whp with CTR/ITR cams unless you go real nutty with the bottom end (CRVTEC) or have a freakish combonation. I am not sure what stroker kit you are planning, but I am assuming a 1.8L convertion. With a proper compression ratio and good tuning/external parts, 200whp is common with Skunk2 Stage 2's and 1.8L motors.
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~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32353 - 09/14/04 01:20 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
boucivicsir Offline
Post Master


Registered: 03/07/03
Posts: 2899
Loc: Québec, Canada
what about cat cams ??? the specs are on their web site
www.catcams.be
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#32354 - 10/23/04 09:26 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
JoeB16 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 5809
Loc: in front of my computer
Quote:

what about cat cams ??? the specs are on their web site
www.catcams.be




Are those belgin cams? WTF is .be?

edit: that site doesnt have anything but 2 pictures on it. WTF?
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my hybrid EM1 - It's still slow.

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#32355 - 11/05/04 02:59 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
Sorry, no feedback on those cams. Never heard of them. They may get imported up to you (in Canada) but that is the first I heard of them. I guess I need to move to Europe to catch up on them!
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32356 - 12/17/04 10:48 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
JoeB16 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 5809
Loc: in front of my computer
we needs to update this list with the buddy club cams. Ill compile some info for you guys.
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my hybrid EM1 - It's still slow.

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#32357 - 12/22/04 03:24 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
RasPutiN Offline
Newbie


Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1
Loc: KY
I have a question but I guess you need my mods to tell me the answer so I have a GSR block with jdm itr's and a b16 head (unfortunatly milled twice) with stainless valves, dual springs, titanium retainers and bronze guids. I just got my Crane Cams 253-0014's in and after comparing them to stock I've become worried about piston to valve clearence and what I should set my msd box to cut the revs at.

I'm going to get it dyno tuned but I have to start it first. It's getting close and with all the maybes I'm getting worried.

Thank you for any replies.

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#32358 - 01/07/05 09:36 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
KRT Offline
Newbie


Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 15
what is better buddy club spec III or skunk 2 stage 1 for a stock valvetrain
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#32359 - 01/11/05 11:24 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
JoeB16-give me the specs and opinions and I will add them. Like I have said, I have been out of the game for a while so I don't know much about these new cams that some companies are offering. I'm getting old!

RasPutin-How much has the head been milled? Sounds scary to be honest. I would suggest two things, 1.)Buy a new head. They can be found cheap, especially just the bare head. 2.)Get new, custom, pistons with a deeper valve relief.

KRT-Again, I do not know much about Buddy Club cams, but the Skunk2 Stage 1's are my favorite set of cams for a stock B16A valvetrain.
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32360 - 03/23/05 03:18 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
I am thinking of S2S2 cams, do I need to change the valves, or just springs and get retainers with stock valves?
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#32361 - 04/06/05 01:44 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
1320JDMGSR Offline
Newbie


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 23
Loc: California, U.S.A.
The BLOX Racing Type-B Camshafts are off the hook! 228whp with 152wtq on my fully built, daily driven b20 vtec motor. My buddy has a set of the Type-A's in his stock bottom end b16a, and put out 182 whp with 117 wtq! Man, does that 1.6L rip through the gears like nothing! In my opinion these cams are truly the best bang for the buck. Tuning is the key to maximizing horsepower and torque. Special deal on these cams can be found at: http://www.trackspeedracing.com Good luck!
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#32362 - 09/02/05 07:59 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
CuttingEdge Offline
Newbie


Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 50
Loc: SF Bay Area
Sweet. Cant wait for that.
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#32363 - 12/03/05 06:32 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
ganjafarmer143 Offline
Newbie


Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 48
Loc: Miami,FL
so wham to buddy club?
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#32364 - 12/03/05 08:21 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
PurduinaSi Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 7857
Loc: Westchester, NY
Quote:

so wham to buddy club?




what??
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#32365 - 12/15/05 04:52 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
e6b Offline
Newbie


Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 57
Loc: Manila. Philippines
Mr Samkarp, thank you for your wisdom.You've sold me on the Toda B's considering the kind of driving i plan to do.
If i go for the Toda B's and all the corresponding upgrades mentioned in your sticky, would it be wise to stroke my B16A using an ITR crank/rods together with Toda 82mm pistons and rev to 9000rpm? Also will i require larger injectors whether or not i go for the stroker?
Thanks!

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#32366 - 12/15/05 10:05 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
More displacment is always good. Although 1.6L are a blast to drive! Glad to see someone considering the TODA Stroker Kit. I always thought it was a nice upgrade for a B16A owner. Not many agree though and push the ITR block over the stroker kit. The stroker kit does have a slightly lower rod/stroke ratio, but still safe for 9000rpm operation.

The TODA B's are not a screamin top-end cam, but require extra revs so shifts keep you in VTEC. Many B owners have VTEC cross-overs close to 7000rpm. Shifting at 8200-ish will drop you out of VTEC.

I have been "out of the game" for a while, but in the old days, larger injectors were not really needed. Most fuel requirements were taken care of with a good FPR and VAFC/other A/F tuner. For more aggressive cams, people would step up to a larger injector. Using a slightler injector could ease your tuning a little more, but I don't think they are 100% needed for a cam like the B's.
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32367 - 12/16/05 06:01 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
e6b Offline
Newbie


Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 57
Loc: Manila. Philippines
Thanks for the prompt reply. The TODA Stoker kit is sweet but a bit pricey, so i'm planning on just getting TODA 82mm pistons, an ITR crank/rods, and the TODA B's. I've read a few posts on this subject but have not found anything definitive.

Also, if I plan to set my VTEC cross-over at around 7000rpm, at what rpm should I shift in order to stay in VTEC?

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#32368 - 01/14/06 11:50 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
jdmsi22 Offline
Poster


Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 287
Loc: florida
man thats a great post.
very useful!

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#32369 - 01/25/06 04:09 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
BlkSiRacer Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 181
Loc: Winston Salem,.North Carolina
It comes down to Skunk 2 Stage 1, Civic TypeR, Integra TypeR cams, which one would you say to use on my 00 Civic Si? And what type of Cam gears would you recommend. Also what type of gains am I looking at?
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FBP 2000 Honda Civic Si

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#32370 - 02/07/06 03:12 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
id like to throw this out there...
I ran to 9000 rpm with my STOCK b16a2 head when turblow. Head has held up fine.(at 95k miles and going strong) Doug from Hondata used to run to 9200 rpm on his stock b16a2 head aswell with no issues.... dun dun dun.
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#32371 - 06/03/06 02:03 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
Mark Mastracchio Offline
Newbie


Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 2
Loc: CT
I just picked up a 99 EM1 that came with Crower Stage 1's (he said) He gave me the box they came in with my stock b16 cams in them. Is there any way to tell from the part number on the box which stage they actually are?
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99' EBP EM1

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#32372 - 06/05/06 11:16 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
Quote:

I just picked up a 99 EM1 that came with Crower Stage 1's (he said) He gave me the box they came in with my stock b16 cams in them. Is there any way to tell from the part number on the box which stage they actually are?



The part number on Crowers website is 63401-2.
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32373 - 09/21/06 04:45 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
L_K Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 79
Loc: guelph, Canada
anyone know anything about Skunk 2 pro 1 cam? I bought a set for a real good price with pro series cam gear, ti-retainer, valve spring.
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#32374 - 10/10/06 09:14 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
jime4871 Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 96
Loc: Portland, OR.
WOW...so much info. I got a ? for you Mr. Samkarp
I plan on building up my block,head a 99 Spec JDM ITR. I have these simple bolts-on as of now. J's Racing CF intake and 2.5 stainless steel piping on a borla exhaust w/ test pipe.
I've been thinking about to "kits" that i put together which will include
camshaft's, camgears, retainers, and springs.
The two kits are
Skunk 2 Stage 2 and
Buddy Club IV
everything will be mangaed by Hondata S200 via OBD1 P28 ECU. My concern is which will be the best "kit" to go with and why?
What kind of power should i expect?
For the botton-end i'm still undecided about it. Might want to raise compression to12, but still not sure for now. My main concern is the valvetrain.
ANY HELP OR ADVICE WILL BE THANKFUL AND USEFUL, since you've experience with these....

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#32375 - 10/10/06 11:10 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
TwoKSiR Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 02/13/02
Posts: 389
Loc: Des Moines, IA U.S.
Running 12 can get you close to having to run racegas i think.
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B18c Block, RS Pistons B18c5 Head and IM, Port Flow Duals and retainers.

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