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#32309 - 03/04/03 04:07 PM Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
-I will be adding some other cams(regrinds and Crane) later on along with a possible H-Series cam guide.

B-Series Cam Guide Ver. 2.2!

Let me start by saying that the following are my comments on these cams. The following comments do not reflect the thoughts of others, ClubSi owners or anyone other than me. These are the critiques and facts that I have experienced from many other people here on the boards and in real life. If anyone feels that I got a critique or fact messed up please tell me via e-mail and we will discuss. I wont learn anymore if no one tells me.

Following Cams Measured at 1mm of lift:
Integra Type-R(Through 1999 Spec)
Int-240 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Exh-235 dur. / 10.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Stock B16A/GSR if using stock 8200 re-limit. Integra Type-R if using rev limit over 8200rpms. Mugen Valve Springs can also be used.
Description: These are great, reliable cams for the money. You can pick up a set for as little as $500.00 new if you are lucky! They will give good gains from midrange all the way until 8400rpms. These cams have stock idle characteristics.

Civic Type-R And Integra Type-R(Integra Type R 2000/01 Spec)
Int-243 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Exh-235 dur. / 10.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Stock B16A/GSR if using stock 8200 re-limit. Integra Type-R if using rev limit over 8200rpms. Mugen Valve Springs can also be used.
Description: These are great, reliable cams for the money. You can pick up a set for as little as $550.00 new if you are lucky! They will give good gains from midrange all the way until 8400rpms. These cams have stock idle characteristics.

Skunk2 Stage 1
Int-252 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Exh-249 dur. / 10.8mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Stock B16A/GSR if using stock 8200 re-limit. Integra Type-R if using rev limit over 8200rpms. Skunk2 Valve Springs can also be used.
Description: These are very underrated cams. They do cost around $100-$200 more than the Type-R cams but they also offer much more duration and will give more power than the Type-R cams. Similar power range of Type-R cams but stronger throughout the higher parts of the power band. This is a great set of cams for a budget minded B16A owner. These cams have stock idle characteristics. I would recommend using Skunk2 cam gears with these cams.

JUN Type 1
Int-265 dur. / 10.9mm lift
Exh-268 dur. / 10.0mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Tough to say. I have never seen anyone use this cam. The characteristics say that a stock B16A/GSR valve spring could handle these cams for use up to 8200rpms. Any operation above that and I would use ITR valve springs or even JUN valve springs.
Description: Again, I have never seen these used. I have no clue on the power these cams will deliver but it should be similar to that of a Skunk2 Stage 1 cam, although they are very different cams. These cams have stock idle characteristics. I would recommend using JUN cam gears with these cams.

Spoon Sports
Int-256 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Exh-245 dur. / 11.1mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Integra Type-R. If using these cams past 8800rpms(why would you) I would think that Port Flow or even Toda valve springs would work but I don’t think these cams will make much power after 8400rpm.
Description: Another somewhat rare cam. Will show definite gains over that a Type-R cam and very good gains on a stock B16A/GSR motor. Stock idle characteristics from the few users I have seen use them. I would recommend using Spoon cam gears with these cams.

JUN Type 2
Int-267 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Exh-265 dur. / 10.9mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Integra Type-R up to 8800rpms or JUN valve springs for all operations. These cams are wild enough that you should not be using the low 8200rpms rev limit.
Description: Another rare cam but a few people have used it including JSIR. Cams will have just as much midrange gain as the big-brother JUN Type 3 but will start to slack off over 8400rpms when the Type 3’s are still making power. However, this cam will cause fewer headaches to get tuned right and does not require the fancy valvetrain and tuning of the Type 3. This is by far the most underrated cam of this whole bunch. These cams have stock idle characteristics but still offer better midrange power than the JUN Type 3 (start making power at an earlier rpm) . I recommend using JUN cam gears with these cams.

Skunk2 Stage 2
Int-266 dur. / 12.3mm lift
Exh-262 dur. / 11.8mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Skunk2 preferred but Port Flow will work as well. These cams are wild enough that you should not be using the low 8200rpms rev limit.
Description: The new top dog of the cam world. This will become the most common aftermarket (non OEM) cam in the US when they start getting distributed more. These have a very similar power band as the JUN Type 3, with less cost and better reliability (I said the “r” word). Not huge midrange but very good gains from 7000rpms all the way to 9000rpms(peak is usually around 8200rpms). These cams have stock idle characteristics, thus making them the ultimate street/strip cam. I recommend using Skunk2 cam gears with these cams.

JUN Type 3
Int-265 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Exh-265 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: JUN preferred but Port Flow works as well. These cams are wild enough that you should not be using the low 8200rpms rev limit.
Description: Until the Skunk2 Stage 3 this was the best high-end performing cam on the market. The JUN 3 and Toda B were the two fighting out for the top dog when it was just JUN and Toda (ahh the old days). Again, like the Skunk2 Stage 2, not huge midrange but very good gains from 7000rpms all the way to 9000rpms. These cams have stock idle characteristics, thus making them another ultimate street/strip cam. I recommend using JUN cam gears with these cams.

Skunk2 Stage 3
Int-270 dur. / 12.8mm lift
Exh-279 dur. / 11.8mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Skunk2.
Description: A race only cam. Not to be used on the common street motor, if they are you should pull the head every so often to make sure everything is OK. This cam makes huge top-end power gains but still retains near-stock idle characteristics (weird). This cam is or has been used by Skunk2’s drag racing team and Speed World Challenge team as well. I recommend using Skunk2 cam gears with these cams.
________________________________________________________________________
Following cam measured with 0mm of lift:
Civic Si(1999 Spec)
Int-265 dur. / 10.5mm lift
Exh-267 dur. / 9.6mm lift

Integra GS-R
Int-274 dur. / 10.7mm lift
Exh-276 dur. / 9.6mm lift

Crower 400
Int-279 dur. / 10.7mm lift
Exh-280 dur. / 9.6mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Stock B16A/GSR if using stock 8200 re-limit. Integra Type-R if using rev limit over 8200rpms.
Description: This is a weird cam. I would call it an OEM replacement cam. It fits in between stock B16A/GSR cams and Type-R cams. There are not huge power gains to be had with these cams but you may notice a small difference. These cams have stock idle characteristics. I recommend using Crower cam gears with these cams.

Civic Type-R And Integra Type-R(Integra Type R 2000/01 Spec)
Int-278 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Exh-280 dur. / 10.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Stock B16A/GSR if using stock 8200 re-limit. Integra Type-R if using rev limit over 8200rpms. Mugen Valve Springs can also be used.
Description: These are great, reliable cams for the money. You can pick up a set for as little as $550.00 new if you are lucky! They will give good gains from midrange all the way until 8400rpms. These cams have stock idle characteristics.

Crower 401(NA Version)
Int- 282 dur. / 11.3mm lift
Exh-277 dur. / 10.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Stock B16A/GSR if using stock 8200 re-limit. Integra Type-R if using rev limit over 8200rpms. Crower Valve Springs can also be used.
Description: This cam is almost identical to the Type-R cams. A little more duration overall but that is traded off with a little less lift on the intake cam. They will have similar gains and powerband as the Type-R cams. If it were up to me I would just choose the Type-R cam based on reliability alone (there is that “r” word again). These cams will have stock idle characteristics. I would recommend using Crower cam gears with these cams.

Crower 401-T(Forced Induction Version)
Int-280 dur. / 11.8mm lift
Exh-276 dur. / 11.3mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Crower.
Description: One of the only true boost cams for B-Series Hondas on the market. This cam is designed to prevent blow-through and to save boost. This is typically associated with lower duration and high lift but cam lobe separation is also a factor with these cams. These can be used in a NA car but they will see better gains from a cam set with more duration. Stock idle characteristics are attained from my sources. I would recommend using Crower cam gears with these cams.

Toda Spec A
Int-290 dur. / 11.6mm lift
Exh-280 dur. / 11.2mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Integra Type-R up to 8800rpms or Toda valve springs for all operations.
Description: One of my favorite set of cams. Toda does not actually mix and match their cams but they are similarly tied when it comes to power. The Toda A will offer the midrange gain of a Type-R cam but the high-end gain(put not overall peak power) of the Toda B cam. These cams will have gains from midrange to 8800rpms with peak gains concentrated on 7000-7800rpms. These cams are great for a street motor and are really nice for cars equipped with a stock B18C5 motor (no valvetrain or ECU requirements needed). These are the only Toda cams to retain stock idle characteristics. I recommend using Toda cam gears with these cams.

Crower 402(Both Regular 402 and 402-A, 402-A is milder off VTEC)
Int-297 dur. / 11.8mm lift
Exh-287 dur. / 11.8mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Crower.
Description: There are two 402 versions offered. The 402 is the regular version and offers better midrange power than the 402-A. Both are similar on the high end of the cam and will create similar peak power numbers. They will make peak power around 7900-8200rpms and have nice gains all the way up to 9000rpms. Stock idle is attained with the 402-A but the regular 402 will have a slightly “bumpier” idle than stock. I recommend using Crower cam gears with both sets of the 402 cam.

Toda Spec B
Int-295 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Exh-285 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Toda but Port Flow will work well too.
Description: My personal pick for overall street/autocross use. These cams have the most midrange gains out of any B-Series cam when they are tuned right. They have the same midrange gains of a Toda Spec C and the same top end pull as the Toda Spec A, but a little more peak power. They are in tight competition with the Skunk2 Stage 2 and JUN Type 3. Those care are more concentrated on top-end, peak power gains. The Toda B is more concentrated on midrange power with the tradeoff of a little top-end power. Toda B’s have great gains from 4500rpms all the way to 8800rpms. Power does start to dip off quickly at around 8400rpms though. Due to the wild off-VTEC profiles, these cams do have a “bumpier” idle than stock. I recommend using Toda cam gears with these cams along with a Toda or Power Enterprises timing belt.

Crower 403
Int-295 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Exh-293 dur. / 11.8mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Crower.
Description: Crowers wildest cam. The 403 has good midrange of the 402 cam but with a little more top-end power. They will make more power above 8200rpms than the 402 cams. Like the 402, the idle will be “bumpier” due to the aggressive non-VTEC profile. I recommend using Crower cam gears with these cams.

Toda Spec C
Int-295 dur. / 12.5mm lift
Exh-295 dur. / 12.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Toda
Description: The ultimate cam. This cam mixes the midrange power of the Toda B cam with the top end of similar to that of the JUN Type 3 and Skunk2 Stage 2. Power gains from 4500rpms all the way to 9000rpms. This is truly, the best overall cam for both midrange and top-end power. They might not give the top-end gains of the Skunk2 Stage 3 but you get more midrange and these cams can be used on the street with the right set-up and the deep pocketbook. Due to the crazy off-VTEC lobes the idle is rougher than stock, just like the Toda B cam. I recommend using Toda cam gears with these cams along with a Toda or Power Enterprises timing belt.

Toda Spec D
Int-305 dur. / 12.9mm lift
Exh-315 dur. / 11.9mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Toda
Description: If you are crazy enough to be using this cam or anything wilder, then I would hope you do not need a description and know a hell of a lot more than me!

So, that is the jist of cams. Now people will ask what they need to properly run these cams. Well that is all dependant on what rpm you plan on running to. Most of it comes down to intake and exhaust. Cars running at high revs will want a large collector header like the 2.5 inch offered on the JDM DC Sports, JDM Integra-R and other JDM collector headers. These motors will also like an intake manifold with shorter runners. Something like the Integra Type-R or Skunk2 intake manifold will work well. The intake manifold also requires to have a bored out throttle body. The header will also need to have either a 2.5 inch collector catalyst or test pipe.

Another big thing needed is removing the stock rev limiter. For 1996+ OBD2 cars you can do this by getting an OBD1 conversion. This involves getting an OBD1 ECU, the OBD2 to OBD1 conversion harness, and an OBD1 ECU Program (to raise rev limiter). If you have a pre 1996 car that is OBD1 then all you need is the ECU program. Running a Integra or Civic Type-R ECU is another possibility.

Other head work is always needed as well. High-revving motors need the proper valve springs and titanium retainers. Port and Polish jobs are always nice to have regardless of the set-up, but is especially needed for the wilder cams like the Toda Spec C, Skunk2 Stage 3, etc. Upgrading valves and the lost motion assembly should be considered with wild cams like those above.

The medium and wild grind cams are also not going to like the low compression levels of the B16A and B18C1 motors. You can gain .4 of a point by simply adding a head gasket but after that your only alternative is head milling or using new pistons. Any where from 11.0-12.0:1 is good for most of the cams above. If it is not in your budget to add pistons though, don’t worry, the 10.6:1 from the stock B16A with a head gasket will be just fine for mild and medium set-ups. Anthing in the wild cam category should be using higher compression.
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~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32310 - 03/04/03 04:26 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
tw2000si Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 694
Loc: Oxnard,CA
Just an idea make this a sticky. I know that there alot of people always asking about different cams and what they need to run these cams safely. I was just thinking that if it was made a sticky that it might eliminate some of the questions. Also after a while it will get shoved back a few pages and people will forget about it and start asking the same questions again. I would also think that this would hopefully help some of the newbies that come to this forum find the info that the are looking for with out asking the same question for the hundreth time. Just an idea. By the way great work Sam, very informative
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#32311 - 03/04/03 04:39 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
NNHC Offline
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Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 3366
Loc: AB, Canada
Sweet. Time to update my version 1.
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#32312 - 03/04/03 05:10 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
We had the cam guide, ITR block guide and LS/CRVTEC guide as stickies but people started to complain that we had 5-7 stickies at one time. Therefore we made the NA Tuning special posts, guides and links sticky which appears at the top of the page.

With the new UBB software stickies are tough to manage as you must mark in your personal preferences "show posts from all dates."
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~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32313 - 03/04/03 05:14 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
Tripod Offline
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Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 675
Loc: In the garage, St.Catharines, ...
I guess I'm the first to say it... "printing"
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#32314 - 03/04/03 05:20 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
Oh, and my references for the stats were collected a while back. For JUN cam specs, Dave at Darksol supplied the specs. For Skunk2 cams, Shawn at SoundBuys supplied the specs. Otherwise, I used the cam websites along with some spec sheets for other measurements.
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~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32315 - 03/04/03 05:31 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
Noob4Life Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 26653
Loc: IL, USA
What do you mean when you say "measured at 1mm of lift" and "measured at 0mm of lift"? For example, why are the ITR (00-01) and CTR cams measured at both 1mm and 0mm of lift?
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#32316 - 03/04/03 07:13 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
breakneckvtec Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 3733
Loc: NJ
Thanks Sam, exactly what I pmed you for, your the man.

BTW: Sam what would you say is more aggressive, the Spec A's or the Skunk stage 1's? Also, do either offer any off vtec advantage? Which do you think has the better mid range?
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#32317 - 03/06/03 10:03 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
Beave-
http://www.cranecams.com/camvtfaq.htm

breakneck-
I asmwered you via pm.
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~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32318 - 03/07/03 09:43 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
2XS Offline
Poster


Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 312
Loc: Moncton, NB, CANADA eh
so from this guide it says my jun2 cams are alright to 8800 rpm on my stock valvetrain itr head ??? can anyone confirm this, and also, is there any need to rev these cams any higher??
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#32319 - 03/08/03 10:27 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
2XS-all the info I got for the JUN 2 cams are from JSIR. Like I said, they are not a commonly used cam, most people just spring for the JUN 3's instead. He told me that ITR valvetrain was fine. I think that is what he was using in his B16A with those cams. You may want to PM him.
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~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32320 - 04/25/03 02:55 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
Beave0101 Offline
servant of egosgame


Registered: 02/13/02
Posts: 15941
Loc: San Diego
What no Jun IV specs ?
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#32321 - 04/25/03 04:04 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
shivers Offline
Sr Member


Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 1084
Loc: North America
Quote:

What no Jun IV specs ?




I was just going to say the same thing. The lift specs are posted on Honda Tech, but nothing on duration yet.
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#32322 - 05/09/03 03:56 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
MadtownSi Offline
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Registered: 02/03/00
Posts: 4521
Loc: Madison,WI
It's back
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#32323 - 05/18/03 12:28 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
#Tuna No Crust Offline
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Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 4729
Loc: 3 lights ahead of you (FL)
copy and paste
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#32324 - 07/30/03 05:00 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
fox297 Offline
Newbie


Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 18
Loc: Gainesville, FL
Does anyone know of a reputable shop that does regrind to your own specs. Planning to go wild.
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#32325 - 08/01/03 11:34 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
AzSi22 Offline
Major Member


Registered: 10/31/99
Posts: 1386
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
The only people I know that do custom grinds are Web and Crower.
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#32326 - 09/04/03 10:12 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
g2LsVtec Offline
Newbie


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 12
Loc: Walla Walla, WA
Colt Cams do custom grinds..
and i believe EF-1 cams as well.
my EF-1 m24 cams are being shipped to me right now
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#32327 - 09/06/03 12:28 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
TwoKSiR Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 02/13/02
Posts: 389
Loc: Des Moines, IA U.S.
Do you know anything about the EF-1 cams?
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#32328 - 09/06/03 11:23 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
g2LsVtec Offline
Newbie


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 12
Loc: Walla Walla, WA
as of right now i know the M24's are 298 duration and 12.1mm lift.. i'm working on getting the duration @1mm
i'll have the cams in my hand this week probably wednesday.. then i'll be doing alot of measurements
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#32329 - 09/06/03 12:11 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
TwoKSiR Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 02/13/02
Posts: 389
Loc: Des Moines, IA U.S.
Let me know, I've been hearing good things about there cams, I ordered there inner valve springs for the time being, but i havn't installed them yet.
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#32330 - 09/22/03 01:21 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
00CivicSiTein Offline
Poster


Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 225
Ok Heres my quection. I'm thinking of running skunk2 stage 1 cams. It says valve train upgrade recomened. SO I made a post and asked about that. I got a reply saying I should use itr springs. (I'm assuming that means integra type r) My quection is should I get hardened inner springs to. If you anwser is yes. Wouldnt' it be cheaper or the same price to go with skunk2 springs that have the inner spring already in with the outer spring.
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#32331 - 09/23/03 08:26 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
erics99si Offline
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Registered: 04/10/00
Posts: 2771
Question if you guys could help me out a little bit.. First of all I have a JDM ITR under the hood of my 99 Si and I drive the car very rarely during the week. Most of the time its a weekend car, though I do a lot of drag strip racing in the summer time. I'm looking to upgrade my head internals this winter to bigger cams, etc... though I'm a little stuck on what would be the better cam and valvetrain for the driving style I do. At the track I drive the car hard, though I'm still wanting to be able to make a 350 mile long trip here and there and be ok. I've been told that my valve train will be plenty strong enough if I use PortFlow inners and upgrade to Ti-Retainers while using my current ITR outters. As far as cams...and reading the cam thread I'm debating on either the Toda B/C's or the Jun 3. Any opinions what would work better. I only plan to rev to 9K, 9500 at the very max, so would the mentioned valve train upgrade alone with say Jun3's work safely? Whats a safe setup to rev to 9500 safely, and will my stock block/pistons/rods handle 9-9500 rpms. Thanks for reading.
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#32332 - 09/26/03 10:24 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
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Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
TODA B's are a fun set of cams for the street but some think they are on the line of requiring too much to be streetable. The B's offer a lot of midrange power than that of a JUN 3, however it comes at a price. Bumpier idle, more involved tuning, use of the expensive t-belts, etc, etc. However, if enjoyable street driving is what you want then these are your cams. When combined with the B18 bottom end the mid-range power used upon street acceleration is nice.

The JUN 3 is more of the top-end performer. The midrange is not much when you compare them to the TODA B's but the top end is night and day difference. The 3's will out-peak the B's but the B's will have a wider powerband.

If you feel that the power getting you around town(0-6000rpms) is good enough then look at the JUN's. If you want the midrange for spirited street driving, canyon carving, autocross, etc....then the B is your set.

9000rpms is fine with the Port Flow InCner/ITR Outer/Ti Retainer combo. Many stock-block B18C5's are running to 9000rpms. If you are planning on going to 9500rpms is when you will be pushing the limits of the bottom end. If wanting to go that high I would seriously consider doing a bottom end balance and blueprint. The crank, rods and pistons can handle it, along with the rod/stroke ratio, but the "slop" just might be too much at that rpm, especially if the bottom end has been beat up on a little.
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32333 - 12/01/03 03:45 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
90CRXb16 Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 120
Loc: canada(GTA)
i am thinking of getting itr cams for my b16a, maybe ctr if i find them for a good price, anyways, i want this so i can use my stock valve train,
can you tell me what kind of power i can expect from the itr, and will i feel the difference, or should i just keep it stock until i can afford something better.
thanks

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#32334 - 12/04/03 06:28 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
hoopla14 Offline
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Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 154
EXCEPTIONAL WRITE UP!!!!
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#32335 - 01/27/04 04:16 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
90CRXb16 Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 120
Loc: canada(GTA)
i couldn't find this so maybe someone knows, i know the itr 99, 00-01 are given, are the 97 itr cam specs same as 99 or no, if no than what are the specs of those.
and btw, if i put these into a b16a, will i feel any differece, and will the rev limit increase.
i am asking cause i found a great deal on those cams, along with the cams, itr IM and TB., or will the power increase be not feelable.
thanks, anyone???

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#32336 - 01/27/04 04:24 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
The 97 are the same as the 1999 specs. The 99 specs are good for all years before 99 as well.

The cams will give small increases, I guess enough to be noticeable on the butt dyno. The rev limit will increase if you increase it. Cams do not increase the rev limiter, electronics do (aka the ECU). They can be used with the stock revlimiter however. IMO they are a good, reliable, cheap set of cams. It depends how grat of a deal you are getting.
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32337 - 01/27/04 09:52 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
90CRXb16 Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 120
Loc: canada(GTA)
thanx for the input, what i mean by the rev limit was could i rev them higher then i do now. my ecu is chipped allready, so i guess what i wanted to know was how high could i rev these.
thanx again

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#32338 - 01/28/04 10:37 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
Assuming stock B16A or B18C1 valvetrain, 8200rpms. Use ITR valvesprings and some titanium retainers and 8800rpm is fine.
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32339 - 02/13/04 11:38 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
gohangotensi Offline
Poster


Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 343
Loc: Irvine, CA
i didn't see anything on what cam gears to use with CTR cams, so does this mean they aren't needed or recommended?
_________________________
03 Dodge Neon SRT-4

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#32340 - 02/13/04 12:42 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
They are not "required." To get the most power out of any set of cams you need to tune them with cam gears. Almost all cam gears are compatable with CTR cams so brand is open.
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32341 - 02/13/04 04:09 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
TwoKSiR Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 02/13/02
Posts: 389
Loc: Des Moines, IA U.S.
I would stay away from AEM (not to diss anyones shit) but i have just heard horrer storys about them slipping. I got my skunk 2 6 bolts for $110 + shipping on Ebay. I love them.
_________________________
B18c Block, RS Pistons B18c5 Head and IM, Port Flow Duals and retainers.

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#32342 - 02/18/04 12:28 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
gohangotensi Offline
Poster


Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 343
Loc: Irvine, CA
I dont know if its true, but i heard that tuning oem cams, like the ctr cams, doesn't make very noticeable gains, is this true?
_________________________
03 Dodge Neon SRT-4

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#32343 - 02/18/04 08:43 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
Quote:

I dont know if its true, but i heard that tuning oem cams, like the ctr cams, doesn't make very noticeable gains, is this true?



No. I have seen plots of an ITR with I/H/E/Cam Gears before cam tuning and after cam tuning. If I remember correctly, they tuned for midrange power and still got 3whp over peak. Tune a set-up for top-end power and you can see more.
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32344 - 02/26/04 04:10 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
htownsleeper25 Offline
Newbie


Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 11
Loc: Houston, Tx
Ok samkarp somebody asked this question in the beginning but u answered via pm. I would like to know who is the better of the 2 cams, Skunk2 stage 1 or TODA spec A?
Break it down for me like u did Jun3\toda b question.

Thanks
_________________________
99 SI, AEM cai, DC 4-2-1, HKS Hi-power, MSD 6a, ACT xtss

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#32345 - 02/27/04 02:00 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
SiBuddy00 Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 476
Sam, I rally need some help! How do you tell if spoon cams are real or not? I can't find the Spec Sheet anywhere! Is there any way? I don't wanna get scammed. Thanks!
_________________________

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#32346 - 02/27/04 09:42 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
htownsleeper25-The differences are not huge. They are going to offer the same type of gains both on and off VTEC. IMO it comes down to money. As I said in the guide, the Stage 1's are great for a budget B16A owner. You do not need to upgrade the valvetrain if you stick with the stock revlimit and really all you need is some cam gears a VAFC and some tuning. The TODA's more aggressive lift on the exhaust cam may give a tad more power but also it means that the stock B16A2 springs will likely bind. Thus, you need to purchase ITR valvetrain. This adds money to the parts cost and install cost. Thus, if you have a B16A2 and want a simple cam that will work the the stock valvetrain and ECU, the Stage 1 is the cam for you. If you are an ITR owner, the TODA will be more appealing as the needed valvetrain and ECU modifications are not needed. If you are a B16A owner opening up the head anyway to do a spring and retainer install and are getting a new ECU for higher revs, I would not recommend either cam. IMO, go with a slightly bigger cam like the Stage 2, Type II or best, the TODA B.

SiBuddy00-I got your PM and I thought I relpied but we are having PM issues along with internet issues at work so I will reply here. I have never used a micrometer before so I am unsure on its use. I saw cams being measured once it was done with lasers and digitally if I remember (very cool, it was at the Jaguar plant in Coventry, GB a few years back). Measure the VTEC lobe as that was the lobe listed in the guide. I have no idea on how to identify the cams as I have never seen one in person. I got the specs for those cams off of websites and confirmed with either Shawn at Sound Buys or Dan at Godspeed (forgot, it was a long time ago).
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32347 - 02/28/04 06:41 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
SiBuddy00 Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 476
Do you think a shop could measure them for me? If they charged how much would it be? I could measure the VTEC lobes like you said and see if it matches the results in the forum here. I'm kinda nervous about buying them but I would REALLY like to get them, Just wanna be positive that I'm getting what I think I am.
_________________________

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#32348 - 04/19/04 01:49 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
jpsEPBSi Offline
Major Member


Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 1305
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
micrometor's are simple to use, I just don't know how to pull measurements off a cam..
Anyhow I've got an offer for some CTR cams for 200, the guy is also selling aem gears and a vafc with em' if I'm interested. could probably be a good deal at a cheap price or should I save a little and go skunk 2 stage one or II. I really just want a little more outa the b16 with I/H/E.. I'd rather buy brand new spend more money and have better worthwhile powergains I'm just not sure how great ctr cams will be..
Thanks in advance,
Justin
_________________________
Some people are like Slinkies. They're really good for nothing. But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs. What is a slutty girl like you doing in a classy place like this?

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#32349 - 05/11/04 01:31 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
Si_Guy2000 Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 370
Loc: North Dakota
I have a mostly stock 2000 Si B16A2. My bolts ons are AEM CAI, DC Sports 4-2-1 header, 5Zigen axle-back exhaust. I was considering Cams, Cam Gears and possibly a VAFC. My Question is what cams are recommended for my setup up?
_________________________
2004 Onyx Black GMC Sierra Crew Cab Z71 - K&N FIPK, Edelbrock Headers, Superchips Tuned, Airaid Throttle Body Spacer, Magnaflow Catback Exhaust, Billet Grille, Custom Painted Mirrors, Denali Projector Headlights, Cadillac Escalade Door Handles and Tailgate Handle, GM Optional 20's, More Coming Soon...

2003 DSG Mustang SVT Cobra - 509whp 530wtq
Too Much To List!!
# 5894 of 8394

2000 EBP Civic Si
EM1 Crew Member #88

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#32350 - 05/11/04 08:57 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
If you are planning on just getting cams, cam gears and a VAFC and NOT upgrading the valvetrain and ECU, then a mild cam would be the only ones to use.

CTR/ITR or a mild aftermarket cam like the Skunk2 Stage 1 or JUN Type 1 would be the best bet. They can use the stock rev limit and valvetrain. They are simply installed and tuned with the cam gears along with the VAFC.
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32351 - 05/16/04 09:11 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
vtec_yosh Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 152
Ok, Im torn. I have decided that I am going to do cams/cam gears/valvetrain/ECU/and possibly VFAC on my 99 Si. An eagle stroker kit may also be in the very near future.

What Im torn on is spending $450.00 on a new set of CTR cams or shelling out another $200 and going with the wilder Skunk2 stage 2. I guess Im looking for baout the same thing as a lot of people on here, in that I want a 200whp NA Si.

With that in mind, any reccomendations?
_________________________
http://www.memphisracingscene.com

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#32352 - 05/17/04 11:20 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
If you plan on doing it all (cams, valvetrain, ECU, etc) then go with the the Skunk2 Stage 2's. They have a much higher power potential than CTR cams. You will have trouble getting 200whp with CTR/ITR cams unless you go real nutty with the bottom end (CRVTEC) or have a freakish combonation. I am not sure what stroker kit you are planning, but I am assuming a 1.8L convertion. With a proper compression ratio and good tuning/external parts, 200whp is common with Skunk2 Stage 2's and 1.8L motors.
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32353 - 09/14/04 01:20 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
boucivicsir Offline
Post Master


Registered: 03/07/03
Posts: 2937
Loc: Québec, Canada
what about cat cams ??? the specs are on their web site
www.catcams.be
_________________________


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#32354 - 10/23/04 09:26 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
JoeB16 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 5809
Loc: in front of my computer
Quote:

what about cat cams ??? the specs are on their web site
www.catcams.be




Are those belgin cams? WTF is .be?

edit: that site doesnt have anything but 2 pictures on it. WTF?
_________________________
my hybrid EM1 - It's still slow.

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#32355 - 11/05/04 02:59 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
Sorry, no feedback on those cams. Never heard of them. They may get imported up to you (in Canada) but that is the first I heard of them. I guess I need to move to Europe to catch up on them!
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32356 - 12/17/04 10:48 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
JoeB16 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 5809
Loc: in front of my computer
we needs to update this list with the buddy club cams. Ill compile some info for you guys.
_________________________
my hybrid EM1 - It's still slow.

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#32357 - 12/22/04 03:24 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
RasPutiN Offline
Newbie


Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1
Loc: KY
I have a question but I guess you need my mods to tell me the answer so I have a GSR block with jdm itr's and a b16 head (unfortunatly milled twice) with stainless valves, dual springs, titanium retainers and bronze guids. I just got my Crane Cams 253-0014's in and after comparing them to stock I've become worried about piston to valve clearence and what I should set my msd box to cut the revs at.

I'm going to get it dyno tuned but I have to start it first. It's getting close and with all the maybes I'm getting worried.

Thank you for any replies.

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#32358 - 01/07/05 09:36 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
KRT Offline
Newbie


Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 15
what is better buddy club spec III or skunk 2 stage 1 for a stock valvetrain
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#32359 - 01/11/05 11:24 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
JoeB16-give me the specs and opinions and I will add them. Like I have said, I have been out of the game for a while so I don't know much about these new cams that some companies are offering. I'm getting old!

RasPutin-How much has the head been milled? Sounds scary to be honest. I would suggest two things, 1.)Buy a new head. They can be found cheap, especially just the bare head. 2.)Get new, custom, pistons with a deeper valve relief.

KRT-Again, I do not know much about Buddy Club cams, but the Skunk2 Stage 1's are my favorite set of cams for a stock B16A valvetrain.
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32360 - 03/23/05 03:18 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
I am thinking of S2S2 cams, do I need to change the valves, or just springs and get retainers with stock valves?
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#32361 - 04/06/05 01:44 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
1320JDMGSR Offline
Newbie


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 23
Loc: California, U.S.A.
The BLOX Racing Type-B Camshafts are off the hook! 228whp with 152wtq on my fully built, daily driven b20 vtec motor. My buddy has a set of the Type-A's in his stock bottom end b16a, and put out 182 whp with 117 wtq! Man, does that 1.6L rip through the gears like nothing! In my opinion these cams are truly the best bang for the buck. Tuning is the key to maximizing horsepower and torque. Special deal on these cams can be found at: http://www.trackspeedracing.com Good luck!
_________________________
http://www.trackspeedracing.com "Honda and Acura Drag Racing Parts Specialist"

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#32362 - 09/02/05 07:59 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
CuttingEdge Offline
Newbie


Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 50
Loc: SF Bay Area
Sweet. Cant wait for that.
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#32363 - 12/03/05 06:32 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
ganjafarmer143 Offline
Newbie


Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 48
Loc: Miami,FL
so wham to buddy club?
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#32364 - 12/03/05 08:21 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
PurduinaSi Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 7857
Loc: Westchester, NY
Quote:

so wham to buddy club?




what??
_________________________



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#32365 - 12/15/05 04:52 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
e6b Offline
Newbie


Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 57
Loc: Manila. Philippines
Mr Samkarp, thank you for your wisdom.You've sold me on the Toda B's considering the kind of driving i plan to do.
If i go for the Toda B's and all the corresponding upgrades mentioned in your sticky, would it be wise to stroke my B16A using an ITR crank/rods together with Toda 82mm pistons and rev to 9000rpm? Also will i require larger injectors whether or not i go for the stroker?
Thanks!

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#32366 - 12/15/05 10:05 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
More displacment is always good. Although 1.6L are a blast to drive! Glad to see someone considering the TODA Stroker Kit. I always thought it was a nice upgrade for a B16A owner. Not many agree though and push the ITR block over the stroker kit. The stroker kit does have a slightly lower rod/stroke ratio, but still safe for 9000rpm operation.

The TODA B's are not a screamin top-end cam, but require extra revs so shifts keep you in VTEC. Many B owners have VTEC cross-overs close to 7000rpm. Shifting at 8200-ish will drop you out of VTEC.

I have been "out of the game" for a while, but in the old days, larger injectors were not really needed. Most fuel requirements were taken care of with a good FPR and VAFC/other A/F tuner. For more aggressive cams, people would step up to a larger injector. Using a slightler injector could ease your tuning a little more, but I don't think they are 100% needed for a cam like the B's.
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32367 - 12/16/05 06:01 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
e6b Offline
Newbie


Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 57
Loc: Manila. Philippines
Thanks for the prompt reply. The TODA Stoker kit is sweet but a bit pricey, so i'm planning on just getting TODA 82mm pistons, an ITR crank/rods, and the TODA B's. I've read a few posts on this subject but have not found anything definitive.

Also, if I plan to set my VTEC cross-over at around 7000rpm, at what rpm should I shift in order to stay in VTEC?

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#32368 - 01/14/06 11:50 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
jdmsi22 Offline
Poster


Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 287
Loc: florida
man thats a great post.
very useful!

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#32369 - 01/25/06 04:09 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
BlkSiRacer Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 181
Loc: Winston Salem,.North Carolina
It comes down to Skunk 2 Stage 1, Civic TypeR, Integra TypeR cams, which one would you say to use on my 00 Civic Si? And what type of Cam gears would you recommend. Also what type of gains am I looking at?
_________________________
FBP 2000 Honda Civic Si

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#32370 - 02/07/06 03:12 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
id like to throw this out there...
I ran to 9000 rpm with my STOCK b16a2 head when turblow. Head has held up fine.(at 95k miles and going strong) Doug from Hondata used to run to 9200 rpm on his stock b16a2 head aswell with no issues.... dun dun dun.
_________________________

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#32371 - 06/03/06 02:03 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
Mark Mastracchio Offline
Newbie


Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 2
Loc: CT
I just picked up a 99 EM1 that came with Crower Stage 1's (he said) He gave me the box they came in with my stock b16 cams in them. Is there any way to tell from the part number on the box which stage they actually are?
_________________________
99' EBP EM1

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#32372 - 06/05/06 11:16 AM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
samkarp Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
Quote:

I just picked up a 99 EM1 that came with Crower Stage 1's (he said) He gave me the box they came in with my stock b16 cams in them. Is there any way to tell from the part number on the box which stage they actually are?



The part number on Crowers website is 63401-2.
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline

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#32373 - 09/21/06 04:45 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
L_K Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 79
Loc: guelph, Canada
anyone know anything about Skunk 2 pro 1 cam? I bought a set for a real good price with pro series cam gear, ti-retainer, valve spring.
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#32374 - 10/10/06 09:14 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
jime4871 Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 96
Loc: Portland, OR.
WOW...so much info. I got a ? for you Mr. Samkarp
I plan on building up my block,head a 99 Spec JDM ITR. I have these simple bolts-on as of now. J's Racing CF intake and 2.5 stainless steel piping on a borla exhaust w/ test pipe.
I've been thinking about to "kits" that i put together which will include
camshaft's, camgears, retainers, and springs.
The two kits are
Skunk 2 Stage 2 and
Buddy Club IV
everything will be mangaed by Hondata S200 via OBD1 P28 ECU. My concern is which will be the best "kit" to go with and why?
What kind of power should i expect?
For the botton-end i'm still undecided about it. Might want to raise compression to12, but still not sure for now. My main concern is the valvetrain.
ANY HELP OR ADVICE WILL BE THANKFUL AND USEFUL, since you've experience with these....

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#32375 - 10/10/06 11:10 PM Re: Cam Guide Version 2 Update.
TwoKSiR Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 02/13/02
Posts: 389
Loc: Des Moines, IA U.S.
Running 12 can get you close to having to run racegas i think.
_________________________
B18c Block, RS Pistons B18c5 Head and IM, Port Flow Duals and retainers.

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