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#2849265 - 07/24/08 01:48 AM Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal?
Submission Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 14574
Loc: Houston, TX
I'm trying to get my car(94 camaro) on a serious diet. So far I've removed the entire heater/AC, radio, seats, speakers, Air Bags, carpet, bumper supports, ABS, etc. I want to pull off the power steering pump so I can run a more compact accessory drive set up.
How long will a factory rack last w/o a pump on it? I'm looking at drag strip use and maybe 10 miles a week in driving. is there anything I need to do to prep the rack before I plug it? just flush it w/ fresh fluid and cap it off full?

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#2849268 - 07/24/08 01:50 AM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: Submission]
fellfrosch7 Offline
Post Master


Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2552
Loc: Las Vegas
I always wondered if it's better to cap the 2 lines, or loop them to each other. I don't think it really matters as long as it's sealed and has fluid inside.
_________________________
Running: 99 Maxima SE, 97 240SX SE - All motor
Not running: 90 TSi AWD

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#2849284 - 07/24/08 01:58 AM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: fellfrosch7]
Submission Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 14574
Loc: Houston, TX
i was just going to loop them w/ the excess hose that was left. thats how i'd seen it done.
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#2849306 - 07/24/08 02:46 AM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: Submission]
interpol Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 1669
Loc: las vegas
i say leave power steering on, it's nice to have

how about a lightweight battery, fiberglass body panels, lexan glass, lighter seats, etc.? is that too radical or would you be willing to put up with all that stuff?
_________________________
maybe. maybe not. maybe fuck yourself.

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#2849344 - 07/24/08 03:19 AM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: interpol]
Submission Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 14574
Loc: Houston, TX
the reason for wanting to pull the PS pump is that on an LT1 the alternator sits on top of the valve cover limiting my choices for tall covers to clear my rockers. if i go w/ the alternator relocation kit i put it where the A/C was but toss the stock bracket and the PS pump since the ones that retain both look like Frankenstein's abortion.
right now the car has factory plastic front fenders and is getting a lift off hood. eventually i might go to lexan windows but that stuff throws you off if you ever want to get into a stock racing class.
i've got a kirkey seat thats going in once i get the cage lined out.

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#2849369 - 07/24/08 04:06 AM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: Submission]
interpol Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 1669
Loc: las vegas
ah i see... could always do an electric ps pump for the ultimate win

no parasitic hp loss, low weight, retains power steering, etc.
_________________________
maybe. maybe not. maybe fuck yourself.

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#2849371 - 07/24/08 04:12 AM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: interpol]
SamuraiSam Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 8826
Loc: Bellingham, WA
You can't cap the lines you have to loop them.

How would you retrofit an electric power steering system?

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#2849379 - 07/24/08 04:25 AM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: SamuraiSam]
SamuraiSam Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 8826
Loc: Bellingham, WA
hmm

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1597

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#2850031 - 07/24/08 10:33 AM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: ]
CommonGutterTrash Offline
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
I have no p/s in the Eclipse.
my lines are cut, but not looped (courtesy of the p/o)
I'm not sure about GM, but DSM guys loop them all the time with no issue.
you may want to see if there's a manual-geared rack available. it's suppsoed to be like... WORLDS better than using a pwer rack w/out the pumps.
_________________________
Craig R.
2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon
1995 850 T-5R
1996 Galant

AIM = gclipse96

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#2850114 - 07/24/08 10:53 AM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
NOT spotch... Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 56719
 Quote:
if i go w/ the alternator relocation kit i put it where the A/C was but toss the stock bracket and the PS pump since the ones that retain both look like Frankenstein's abortion.



I'm sorry but that's too funny NOT to require pictures...
_________________________
"On the street where there is no lap timer, feel is all that matters" - scootergeek
"A bunch of nerdy douchebags chasing a ghost." -Ob1 on bitcoin

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#2850483 - 07/24/08 12:48 PM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: NOT spotch...]
Submission Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 14574
Loc: Houston, TX
 Originally Posted By: spotch
 Quote:
if i go w/ the alternator relocation kit i put it where the A/C was but toss the stock bracket and the PS pump since the ones that retain both look like Frankenstein's abortion.



I'm sorry but that's too funny NOT to require pictures...


this:


vs. just doing this:


and this is stock:



as for the manual racks i can get a madman rack for $600+ but I haven't seen much else. there is talk of the ability to convert a mustang rack but by the time i've done all that i'm at the same price.
There's always 20 people that swear that they've done it for years and then there's 20 that have it blow up the next day. Just trying to figure out if there was any reason not to do it, besides it being a bitch to turn from a stop w/ 275's on the front.


Edited by BigBadBlack93Z (07/24/08 12:53 PM)

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#2850545 - 07/24/08 01:01 PM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: Submission]
CommonGutterTrash Offline
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
I think as long as you loop so the fluid can move back and forth, you're alright.
Unless GM has some gay Design.
_________________________
Craig R.
2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon
1995 850 T-5R
1996 Galant

AIM = gclipse96

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#2851388 - 07/24/08 04:16 PM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
danl Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 9908
Loc: Peoples Republic of Maryland
I've had my power steering off for like 3 years now. Probably 200 or more quarter mile passes, countless street races, and over 25,000 miles no problem. Just put breathers on the high and low pressure sides of the rack to keep dirt out and you'll be fine.
_________________________
2017 Subaru Impreza

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#2851400 - 07/24/08 04:22 PM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: interpol]
danl Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 9908
Loc: Peoples Republic of Maryland
 Originally Posted By: interpol
i say leave power steering on, it's nice to have

how about a lightweight battery, fiberglass body panels, lexan glass, lighter seats, etc.? is that too radical or would you be willing to put up with all that stuff?


Lexan windows aren't DOT legal. Also lexan drivers windows don't roll too down so good since they are fixed. A front lexan window needs an earnhart style bar to keep it from caving it at speed, not to mention you can no longer use your wipers on it as it'll scratch/streak. In an accident the responders aren't equpped to extract a body from a lexan'd car. That stuff is hard to get to. Also most lexan'd cars leak in rain. Its hard to keep a good weather tight seal when the windows are constantly flexing.

Fiberglass body panels are excruciatingly expensive. It'll cost you a grand or more to save 30 pounds if your lucky. Wheras you can drop the PS pump with lines and loose 20-30 pounds on most cars.
_________________________
2017 Subaru Impreza

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#2851552 - 07/24/08 04:57 PM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: danl]
interpol Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 1669
Loc: las vegas
yeah obviously this is a topic where personal preference comes into play, but i really do like power steering on cars. not something ridiculously overdriven like most gm pumps, but something so you don't have to wrestle with the wheel at low speeds. i don't like most manual racks because they have crappy lock to lock ratios

my 240 isn't much of a street car, so i removed the side windows and i'm gonna go with lexan for the rear hatch glass. i just bought a cf hood and hatch. combined with the lexan rear panel it's run me close to a grand but it's a much more substantial gain than 30 lbs. i believe the hatch alone is close to 40 lbs and the carbon hood is another 30. can't really complain about that, but then again i've run out of places to try to save weight at. i currently do not have any power steering pump on the car but i will try to slap on some electric pump once i get things better figured out. i do agree on leaving the front glass stock, that's not something i would fuck with since it's a big safety issue.
_________________________
maybe. maybe not. maybe fuck yourself.

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#2851672 - 07/24/08 05:34 PM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: interpol]
danl Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 9908
Loc: Peoples Republic of Maryland
Your really going to miss rolling down the windows. Its also a huge saftey issue when in an accident. Only the side and rear windows are saftey glass. If you get in an accident with all lexan windows and stock front glass a saftey crew will have no way to get you out. This was pointed out to me be a friend who used to work in an ambulance as I was thinking about lexan'ing my whole car.

I forgot about CF hoods. They are a cheap way to loose weight. CF hatches are money though for most cars. CF fenders and door pannels are also money with insignificant weight savings usually (like 2-3 lbs per pannel). On some cars CF pannels are heavier. Same with hoods, a CF hood is heaver than a stock evo hood.

It looks like ass, but if a car has a cage you can gut the doors and remove the crash beams. Crash beams are 5-10 lbs apiece. Sometimes roll up windows are 1-2 lbs lighter, but on some cars like a RX7 the electric ones are lighter.

Lots of unnecessary wiring in most cars. Steel bolts are heavy and not needed in most places, alumium is lighter. Lots of braces and brackes are necessary under the hood and under the dash. I still run wipers since I take my car on long road trips but its something to think about removing.

Take a hammer to the sound deadening on the car in the winter to loosen it up. Then take a putty knife and go to town.

Some lightweight seats don't pass spec for people who turn (such as teh summit drag seats). Something to think about. Also stock seat belts are usually heavy, opt for a 5-pt.

Do you use your emergency brake much? If not remove it and the handle.

You can DIY your own carpet.
_________________________
2017 Subaru Impreza

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#2852062 - 07/24/08 07:17 PM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: danl]
Submission Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 14574
Loc: Houston, TX
Pretty much anything I don't use is or has come out of the car. I'm on the hunt for manual doors but i've cut the crash bars out of mine already.
I would love to lexan the windows but the car has t-tops so i doubt it would ever line up right.
i doubt i'd ever remove the emergency brake though. Its carpet-less now but i'll probably put the lightweight black stuff in there once i get around to it just so it isn't so crappy looking inside. its probably going to be tough to get a street race w/ it stripped that far. omg did he say street race?

link to said electric ps pumps?

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#2852128 - 07/24/08 07:30 PM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: Submission]
interpol Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 1669
Loc: las vegas
mr2 electric pumps look like a hot ticket:
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_PowerSteering_Install.html

supposed to be cheap, simple, and compact

plus they came out of a light car so you know it won't be horribly overdriven, prolly just right for not having to rassle with the wheel at low speeds which is exactly what i'm looking for. like i said before, i HATE how overdriven the gm pumps are, it's like driving a fucking boat... and since it's electric, you can run a speed sensitive current

i'm gonna try to rig that on the 240 so i'll let you know how that goes
_________________________
maybe. maybe not. maybe fuck yourself.

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#2852142 - 07/24/08 07:32 PM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: Submission]
fellfrosch7 Offline
Post Master


Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2552
Loc: Las Vegas
From what I've seen on a couple of forums, the 2nd gen MR2 electric PS pump is the cheap way to go. Read the link above on the K20 forum.
_________________________
Running: 99 Maxima SE, 97 240SX SE - All motor
Not running: 90 TSi AWD

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#2852188 - 07/24/08 07:41 PM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: fellfrosch7]
danl Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 9908
Loc: Peoples Republic of Maryland
Are you already running light wheels, lightweight driveshaft, light flywheel etc....?
_________________________
2017 Subaru Impreza

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#2852414 - 07/24/08 08:53 PM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: danl]
Submission Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 14574
Loc: Houston, TX
car has aluminum driveshaft, 9" converter.
as for wheels. no. they are big and heavy, as well as the brakes. i jumped the gun upgrading the brakes and i'm stuck having to run a 17" wheel on the front. i don't feel like shelling out mucho money for runners to fit over vette brakes.
i'm pretty sure the car will still tote the wheels but its not the best. its just something that i'm not going to change again though.
next time the engine comes out i'm hoping to go w/ a tubular kmember.

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#2852508 - 07/24/08 09:21 PM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: Submission]
danl Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 9908
Loc: Peoples Republic of Maryland
Tubular sub frames are great. They can also make things easier to work on. Can you run a smaller and/or lighter radiator? Do you run sans or lightweight bumpers? If your running at speed you should be looking into fabbing up an undertray for the vehicle and diffusers for the rear bumper. What kind of suspension? Maybe set it up with a light set of coilovers? Lightweight control arms and/or get the hole saw out. Also most of the heatshields are unnecessary like on the firewall and for the exhaust. Are you allowed to run a fuel cell? Stock tanks are heavy. Also go to town on the undercoating in the front and rear wheel wells. That weight adds up.
_________________________
2017 Subaru Impreza

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#2852667 - 07/24/08 10:31 PM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: danl]
SamuraiSam Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 8826
Loc: Bellingham, WA
the key is REAL carbon fiber. Dry carbon, not wet carbon. Real dry carbon is incredibly light and should be secured with dzus fasteners or (in the case of a hood) aerolatches or good quality 'real' hood pins.

It's also very, very, very expensive.

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#2853008 - 07/25/08 12:41 AM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: SamuraiSam]
Submission Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 14574
Loc: Houston, TX
I've got subframes on the car and a cage is in the works. I'm working on making a bumper support that will keep the nose from pushing in at speed. I'm also trying to make my own clear headlight covers. The radiator is ok for now and should be fine for a while its hard to find one to swap out w/ an LT1.
The front fenders are plastic and the rear hatch is mainly glass and fiberglass. there are zero interior panels. I really don't have much that I can swap for carbon fiber but I will be making sheet metal door panels once i find some manual doors.
As of right now i've pulled over 250#s from the car.

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#2856009 - 07/26/08 02:45 AM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: Submission]
progressi Offline
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Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 9133
Ive heard from someone that worked on a race team not to do Lexan because if a body part (head,arm,leg) gets forced through it in an impact,the Lexan cracks,the appendage gets through,but it trys to close,trapping the appendage and lacerating it.
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#9089870 - 07/27/17 02:54 AM Re: Removing PS pump from PS rack...fatal? [Re: progressi]
zhengjx Offline
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