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#9302618 - 04/15/18 10:38 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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Nice run. I'd guess that'd be a 9/10 for me

Are you sure you're actually varying that much? Gps is temperamental. Also looks like less than 1%. I know consistant splits is the goal for an effort but isn't that pretty fucking close?

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#9302654 - 04/16/18 01:31 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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Registered: 03/12/01
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Loc: Long Beach, CA
Gotta love those training runs that just feel effortless!

I ran the Leona Divide 50 mile yesterday. Any finish is a good one, but I definitely had to work my ass off for this one!
The race is in the mountains east of Santa Clarita/Magic Mountain. Kind of the high desert ridge areas above the Antelope Valley desert. 45 miles of it was on the Pacific Crest Trail, which was beautiful, but man does it make the idea of a through-hike seem like an impossible task. Miles and miles of remote, exposed and dry trails. We were lucky that it was fairly cool (high was around 80) but there is almost zero shade the whole way.

Race start was 6am, and itís an almost 2 hour drive from Long Beach, so I was up at 2:45 to head up there. Temps were in the high 30ís, so I grabbed my bib and dozed in the car till the start.
The course starts from a little community called Green Valley, goes 3 miles up the road and dirt road till the first out and back stretch on the PCT heading south. I was taking it easy and chatting with my buddy who was running his first 50 miler. Once on the single track it was a nice long conga line but I didnít worry about pushing it, or worry about passing or getting passed, just taking it nice and easy and enjoying the cool weather while it lasted. This stretch consisted of two of descents and two big climbs. The first were about 3 miles, the second a bit more. The turnaround was at the end of a long smooth descent, and I hit mile 18 feeling decent, but warm. There were two back to back 9 mile stretches between aid here so I I was carrying two handheld bottles that I filled with water and Fluid electro lite mix. I didnít carry any nutrition other than salt tabs which I took two per hour. Starting at mile 18 I would use my ice bandana to wipe myself down to get rid of the caked on salt, then fill it with ice. I took my time (maybe 4-5 minutes) and ate lots of calories.
The climb back up and over the mountain was grueling. Just a non-stop grind where you could see every switchback and traverse to the top...which looked really far away. I put my earbuds in and fired up my audiobook and tried to keep my mind off it. I finally reached the top and ran easily down to the road and the aid station. There I repeated things as before and started up and over the next hill to where we would start the 14 mile northerly out and back. There is an aid station at that spot, which is where you can drop to the 50k, hang a left, and cruise down the road to the start/finish area. Historically lots of people do this because itís the hottest part of the day, and youíve just climbed 6k feet of vert in 30 miles. I wonít say the thought didnít cross my mind! My buddy ended up calling it quits there.
The next 14 miles were described as ďrollingĒ which I guess compared to what weíd done was true, but it was definitely a distinct climb and descent each way, with an aid station at the turnaround. There was a 30k and 50k going on at the same time, so there was quite a bit of traffic to deal with, which can be tedious when your legs are fried. It always puts me in a better mood to encourage others, and I needed it big time, so I acknowledged and gave a supportive word to every runner or hiker I encountered. I was doing a lot more walking than I would have liked, but Iím a firm believer in the idea that if you have to walk...walk with a purpose, so thatís what I did. There was no one thing that was bothering me. Sure it was hot, yeah my stomach was cranky, yes my feet were tired and sore and I was chafing quite a bit (the ice melting in my bandana would run down my shirt and onto my shorts where it would dry, leaving a hard crusty layer that defeated the multiple applications of glide I was putting on) but I was still moving at a decent clip and I knew I would be done soon enough. At the turnaround aid station I fueled up on Mountain Dew and watermelon, cooled off with some wet sponges, refilled my bandana, and started trucking back up the mountain. Within a few minutes I caught up to a guy I had ran a good stretch with at Angeles Crest 100 two years ago, and we hiked together for a few miles catching up. We parted ways when I started feeling good enough to do more running than hiking with about 7 miles to go. I took one ibuprofen with 2 hours to go, and another when I was an hour out, which helps to take the edge off the discomfort. (I donít recommend anyone do this without trying it in training. There can be serious consequences to your kidneys if youre not hydrating properly. Iíve had several years experience using it sparingly with no negative effects, so Iíll continue to do it.
Finally I exited the trail and hit the last aid station, quickly filled my bottles half way (my arms were tired as hell from carrying them all day) , and started down the Jeep road. A mile later, I was on the highway and gingerly jogging downhill to the finish. Crossed the line to some great spectator cheers and received my medal. Time was 10:25 and I was 51st out of 166 starters and 120 finishers.
I walked around a little to keep the legs from cramping up, then hit the road for home, grabbing some Little Ceasars pizza along the way.

Overall I canít complain about my performance. Iíve been doing this long enough to know that for every great race, youíll have 3 where itís nothing but work. I always try to remind myself to look around at all the beauty, interact with my fellow idiots, and appreciate that we GET to do this silly stuff. There are people suffering through much much worse in life, and not because they paid $200 to do it. Iím happy that my body held up really well, and this race gets it that much more ready for the real test come June 26th and August 4th, where I will ask way more if it, and will spend far longer in the pain cave!

As for gear:
I wore my Altra Timpís, which I race anything longer than a 50k in, and they serve me pretty well. I almost always get a hotspot in the center of the ball of my right foot, the meaty part right below my toes, but itís only ever become a blister once, during a hundred miler. Might have to try lubing that spot, or even taping it.
Socks were the tried and true injinji crew length.

Shorts were my new favorite Zoot PCH board shorts. Not too long, not too short, and they fit me perfectly.

Shirt was the same Patagonia Nine Trails shirt Iíve been using all this year so far. Itís polyester, but super soft without the feel of a normal tech shirt. Most importantly itís a good fit on my dad bod.

Hat was a Boco technical trucker. Love their stuff so much I actually became a brand ambassador for them this year.

I carried two of the camelback Podium Chill insulated 21oz handhelds. They were enough for even those 9 mile stretches, kept ice for a decent amount of time, and have two pockets on each so I dont have to put stuff in the my shorts pockets, which I donít like.

Iíve been using Metasalt tablets and they seem to work well. Not a single cramp in this race.

Watch was my Garmin 920xt. No complaints after 3 years of daily use.

Music/audio book was from a Sandisk Clip and Phillips earbuds. Iíve been using this same combo for a good 5-6 years now. I have to replace one or the other every couple, but theyíre both cheap and work perfectly for my needs.



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#9302722 - 04/16/18 08:53 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. Offline
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 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
Nice run. I'd guess that'd be a 9/10 for me

Are you sure you're actually varying that much? Gps is temperamental. Also looks like less than 1%. I know consistant splits is the goal for an effort but isn't that pretty fucking close?
I think I can do better; I can remember parts of the run where I was surging and slowing. It doesn't help that the area around me is somewhat hilly and makes for difficult pacing.

Chris:
Good fucking god that looks insane. I don't know how you do it, man, that is an incredible effort! 7710 ft of elevation gain!? lol fuck that

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#9302845 - 04/16/18 11:08 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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Thanks man!
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#9304344 - 04/18/18 02:23 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
Design Offline
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Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 10719
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 Originally Posted By: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.
Just cruised a 12 miler at a 7:28 overall pace. Tempo was fairly consistent except mile 10, apparently I went stupid and ran a 7:13. The run overall felt easy; as always, I had to consciously hold myself back.


Great job man. At this rate you're pretty much on track for a BQ with whatever race you choose. \:D

 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom
I always try to remind myself to look around at all the beauty, interact with my fellow idiots, and appreciate that we GET to do this silly stuff. There are people suffering through much much worse in life, and not because they paid $200 to do it.


Words to live by. Way to tough it out Chris.
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#9304728 - 04/18/18 02:07 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
Kevin Returneth Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 184
Loc: Best Coast
nice updates ^^
me I'm on a downswing with the running, trying to work through some allergy/flu/respiratory problems i think or I'm just going through a low-performance phase where things just arent working out. slugged out a 1:48:nn half in SF which is around 5-10m slower than where I thought I'd be, but I wasnt having a good day at all.

Oh well. Still focusing on the 5k/mile for the year. I hope to break through some arbitrary unit-based time goals heh still in spite of the seeming setback. I mean shit I seem to be slower based on this half than I was 2 years ago at the race where I went faster on the hillier version of the SF half. They dropped the first big hill out and flattened out the course a bit this year [still like 700' vert, I know not much but whatever]. I'm starting to think my half goals are a bit unrealistic given that I havent been training anything really outside 5k/base stuff and no runs longer than 5-7 for the last year while trying to recover from some chronic lower body issues.

Oh well! I think my next race is either a 5k or a mile. Experimenting with a new allergy drug trying to get over this allergy-induced performance problem I think I've replaced my flu-performance problem with
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#9305229 - 04/19/18 08:47 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Kevin Returneth]
Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. Offline
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So to give you an idea of where my consistency USUALLY is at...

minus mile 2 (woops), this is on par with what I expect of myself. Recovery run, just keeping things loose, as my calf was a bit tight the other day:

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#9305324 - 04/19/18 10:02 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
Kevin Returneth Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 184
Loc: Best Coast
Seems like you are running your recovery/easy runs way too fast. That looks like current MP or so. Maybe good if this is 'race pace' training [current capability]

Then again the fastest person I follow does nothing but 40 minute tempos with every.single workout (HMP -10s or so) and regularly podiums mass half races and has a 1:17 PR, eg a good day for her could buy an OTQ

What I mean, is, the mental energy required to 'tempo everything' is substantial. If you can hack it, why not. But for pure aerobic development, easy runs seem like a superior use of time. Tempos ARE important too, ofc. Maybe 80/20 or thereabouts [pfitz/daniels/etc]
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#9305382 - 04/19/18 10:29 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Kevin Returneth]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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Nice and steady for sure, and in my opinion is a critical part of a BQ. The minute you start playing that game on race day of having to speed up to make up for a ďslowĒ mile is when shit starts falling apart. Thats exactly what happened in my second attempt. Decided to follow the pacer and after two miles a good 20 seconds slower than the average pace I needed, I said fuck it and blasted off for a mile to get caught up to where I needed to be. That of course bit me in the ass at mile 21 where I blew up and limped it in for a 3:20. My successful BQ has me running my goal pace from start to finish. Iíd have to check, but other than on one big hill, my pace stayed within 2-3 seconds the whole way.

Oh, and like I said in your other post, Iím a firm believer in train like you race. Run race pace as often as you can! Long slow miles do not get the body ready for running at redline for 3 hours.
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#9305423 - 04/19/18 10:55 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Kevin Returneth]
Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. Offline
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Registered: 09/26/02
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 Originally Posted By: Kevin Returneth
Seems like you are running your recovery/easy runs way too fast. That looks like current MP or so. Maybe good if this is 'race pace' training [current capability]

Then again the fastest person I follow does nothing but 40 minute tempos with every.single workout (HMP -10s or so) and regularly podiums mass half races and has a 1:17 PR, eg a good day for her could buy an OTQ

What I mean, is, the mental energy required to 'tempo everything' is substantial. If you can hack it, why not. But for pure aerobic development, easy runs seem like a superior use of time. Tempos ARE important too, ofc. Maybe 80/20 or thereabouts [pfitz/daniels/etc]
3:18 PR was after a HARD meltdown and limping in. 7:30-7:45 is my more realistic easy pace. I am running tempo at 6:50ish:

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#9305465 - 04/19/18 11:24 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
Kevin Returneth Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 184
Loc: Best Coast
ah that sounds better then

https://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/your-vdot-training-number

still, if your tempo pace is 6:50, the tables suggest 8:30 is your EZ pace,
your 5K race pace is about 19:50, 10k 41:20 or so, about a 1:31 half capability and a 3:10 marathoner == race paces

otherwise, every.single marathon program will suggest your easy pace is a bit too hot. But if mileage is low [30-40?] and the spirit is willing, why not.

The reason for easy mileage is because the body has 2 main energy systems, and it seems like even a third. A marathon is like 99% aerobic and building that system is all about easy miles. Race pace/tempo training are also vital, but exclusive tempo/race pace training will short change aerobic development somewhat BUT you will likely reap great benefits if you can handle that kind of workload in shorter stuff like a 10k or half.

Also if mileage is <40 mpw or something I dont think any of this matters. Most of these guides start around 55mpw as the bare minimum where the 80/20 ez/hard ratio starts to be required for most people depending on vaginal tenderness/mental fortitude.

If my vagina weren't so tender I'd try to mostly do tempo runs too because my mileage is so low. They just hurt too much [also probably I have an unrealistic tempo pace]
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#9305468 - 04/19/18 11:26 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Kevin Returneth]
Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. Offline
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MAXIMUM. ATTACK.
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#9305500 - 04/19/18 11:57 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
Kevin Returneth Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 184
Loc: Best Coast
somebody really did a solid by putting this together lol:

http://fellrnr.com/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Marathon_Training_Plans
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#9305592 - 04/19/18 12:33 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Kevin Returneth]
Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. Offline
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Registered: 09/26/02
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 Originally Posted By: Kevin Returneth
somebody really did a solid by putting this together lol:

http://fellrnr.com/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Marathon_Training_Plans

holy shit this is amazing

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#9305723 - 04/19/18 02:19 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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Registered: 03/12/01
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Got damn! More running, less overthinking!
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#9305834 - 04/19/18 03:11 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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The Art of running
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#9305882 - 04/19/18 03:46 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
Kevin Returneth Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 184
Loc: Best Coast
Anyone doing interval training has Paavo Nurmi to thank [blame]
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#9311615 - 04/28/18 08:26 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Kevin Returneth]
Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. Offline
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Just out of curiosity, what mileage do you start carrying hydration? For me, unless it's 85+ degrees out, I usually won't carry any water for anything under 12 or 13 miles. I have a Nathan pack with a 2L bladder, but it's really rare that I drink more than a liter of it, even on the 18-22 milers. My wife on the other hand, crushes water and I think even fills up halfway through her long runs....
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#9311657 - 04/28/18 09:08 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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Registered: 03/12/01
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Never carry anything on road runs. If theyíre long, thereís always a water source within a mile or two of my routes. On the trail, it depends on the conditions...but usually anything over an hour and Iím bringing a handheld.
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#9311826 - 04/29/18 11:44 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. Offline
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I probably pushed a bit harder than I should have today, but I was feeling REALLY good. 2 mile warmup, then went 4 miles at goal marathon pace, then pulled back to my usualy 7:35ish cadence, and cool down of 1 mile. I'm super happy about this run, although I do not doubt that I will be feeling this tomorrow


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#9311946 - 04/29/18 04:30 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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Nice work!

My asshole brother texted me this the other day:
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#9311947 - 04/29/18 04:35 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. Offline
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Man, how do you say no to that!?
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#9311992 - 04/29/18 06:43 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.
Man, how do you say no to that!?


Lol, I told him to fuck off at least till after August and my big races are done.

Iím sure I could BQ again, but running sub 7ís for 26 milesis a mental hurdle I donít know that I donít know I want to even bother trying!
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#9312475 - 04/30/18 02:08 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
Daffy Cuck Offline
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I had my first 'good' run since Feb and the start of allergy/flu season

an easy 10k where I held on to ~8:10/pace

in truth, it was somewhere between easy and tempo but it felt easy enough so I just kept at it. HR upper 130s. About where I 'raced' my SF half at like a month ago but that was extremely painful. Today it was easy. Still hacking up a little bit, and still doped up on allergy meds but its finally working a bit since I switched to [2] different types to take daily. Couple snot rockets per mile still heh

closed out a 26 mile week [lol] which is an up-tick for me lately [Ive had to do a zero and a 10 mile week in the last month or so]

I cant even do a 10k sub 7:00/mi heh. best effort so far missed that by about 2 mins overall [45:nn]

In fact, a 10K at sub 7:00 [<43:30 ET] would be a huge improvement for me \:D
Just guessing but I dont get under 44 this year in a race/TT

Since I'm just screwing around while my health recovers (??), I did a bunch of 10K easy efforts last week and scattered around 50-53 minutes. Feels good

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#9313583 - 05/02/18 10:03 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Daffy Cuck]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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Weeee, 306 miles for April!

Shooting for 350 for May.
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#9313630 - 05/02/18 11:17 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
Design Offline
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Registered: 12/11/02
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Jebus that's nuts. And nice job Stickaz.




Busy weekend ahead. Kids get to run their 1 mile race (Kids Run the OC). I was planning to sit out the OC Marathon but got asked to pace a half marathon group. Free race entry and parking... why not?
Unfortunately, the big challenge will be running a 12:15 pace for the 2:40 bracket.
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#9313813 - 05/02/18 02:07 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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Yeah man....thatís a tough pace to nail on flat ground. I power hike at 14 minute miles...I dont think I could comfortably shuffle at 12ish pace!
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#9313819 - 05/02/18 02:18 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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Pacing: I'm going to have to agree with stickz. My understanding is there really isn't such a thing as too slow for recovery/easy. Like I see a lot of 10-11minute miles from guys placing in ultras. Even altitude adjusting that works out to mid 9s. I'm starting to believe there are 2 paces of slow. LSR actually shouldn't be quite so slow since they're still a training run. But "junk" miles which are solely for the legs? You're looking to rest your cardio system. Active recovery, 115bpm, sort of shit


Hydration: really depends on temp or shade/sun. Generally 75 minutes is my window in spring/fall. Summer as short at 40 minutes (especially if in the sun). I'm a heavy sweater so I bring some sort of sodium (shotblox or nuun normally)

306 in a month, fuck.
I think I'm at 370 for the year. Which is still my best.
I think run AND biking combined I hit 270 in april, lol

Just decided to do a century in 2.5 weeks, lol
Half is 90 weeks out. My milage is good, but specificity training is garbage.

Lol, but I've got some awesome adventures planned/coming up.

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#9315340 - 05/04/18 12:41 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. Offline
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I have a stomach bug and I'm going to go on a 5-6 mile run today. What's the over/under that I shit my pants?
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#9315373 - 05/04/18 01:32 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
Daffy Cuck Offline
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Registered: 04/30/18
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pretty solid unfortunately I'd bet

me I'm at [5] miles this week, yay. Going to be a tough scramble to get to 20 in the next 3 days heh [esp when I refuse to go over 7/8]

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#9315702 - 05/04/18 09:47 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Daffy Cuck]
Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. Offline
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I DIDNT SHIT MY PANTS
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#9316539 - 05/06/18 11:37 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
Design Offline
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Pacing was a success today. Lots of first timers in our group. Crossed the finish within a minute under goal.

Probably something I'd like to do again. Just a little closer to race pace lol.
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#9316601 - 05/07/18 06:43 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. Offline
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Forgive me if you mentioned in a previous post, but were you the pacer? That is something that I think could be a lot of fun once I shift away from trying to BQ and all that nonsense.
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#9316793 - 05/07/18 11:13 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
Design Offline
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Yeah our run club sponsors a few of the bigger local races. I and another club member did the 2:40 group.

If you get the chance to do, definitely give it a go. Much more fun than I was anticipating.
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#9316811 - 05/07/18 11:42 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. Offline
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Registered: 09/26/02
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 Originally Posted By: Design
Yeah our run club sponsors a few of the bigger local races. I and another club member did the 2:40 group.

If you get the chance to do, definitely give it a go. Much more fun than I was anticipating.
2:40 MARATHON? \:o \:o \:o \:o

EDIT: never mind I scrolled up. I was going to say, holy shit


Edited by Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. (05/07/18 11:43 AM)

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