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#9094645 - 08/02/17 04:22 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
chris4652008 Offline
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Update on what I've been up to since last post:

I've Dropped "structured" running completely (still doing bits and pieces for cardio) and have been hitting fitness bootcamp hard with my wife. Three early morning gym based sessions a week @ 05:30 before work, and also outdoor sessions in the evenings two nights a week plus Saturday mornings.

Did my second OCR (Muscle Acre 10k) http://www.muscleacre.com/ ...That was fun apart from my wife dislocating her shoulder, I sent her off to hospital while I completed the course (no sense both of us sitting in waiting room for hours lol).


My Waistband has gone from tight in 34" trousers (January 2016) to loose in 32" (first time in 32" waist in about 4-5 years).

No idea what I weigh though, I'm more interested in how I feel and what I can do.

Right now at the age of 42 I'm Feeling like I'm in the best shape of my life.
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#9182176 - 11/08/17 02:10 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: chris4652008]
Design Offline
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Keeping this thread alive. Survived the LA Rock n Roll half a few weeks back with a 1:47:58. Cooler weather but humid. Overall a good race for me but was hoping for a slightly lower time.

Tomorrow I'm off to Los Coyotes for a Ragnar Trail series race. 8 person relay throughout an Indian Reservation near Warner Springs. Lots of vert on this course @ 5000ft elevation. But the team is very relaxed and more about having fun. Really looking forward to it.

I have the Turkey Trot with the family, another 13 mile trail race in early December with some friends, then training once again for the LA Marathon. Should hopefully keep the holiday lbs off. \:D
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#9188129 - 11/15/17 02:12 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. Offline
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So I need some feedback from the more experienced distance runners.

Right now, my 26.2 PR is 3:18:xx, about a 7:35/mile overall. I know I can do better than 3:18, my strategy was off last year...stupidly stopped eating at mile 18 and gassed out by 21.
I'm torn between whether I really build my base over the winter/spring and go hard over the summer for BQ attempt this coming fall or wait another year until I turn 35 and get the extra 5 minutes to qual. Another thought would be to go for Chicago this fall, then try for BQ at Chicago, as it's a flat course. Mileage wise, off season I'm at about 25-30 miles per week for maintenance, and once training ramps up, I'm at 50-60 a week.

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#9188199 - 11/15/17 03:16 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
KEVIN RETURNS Offline
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I'd think if you honestly want to BQ you'd have 3-4 12 week blocks of 50-60 leading up to it
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#9188637 - 11/16/17 07:47 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: KEVIN RETURNS]
Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Kevin Spacey
I'd think if you honestly want to BQ you'd have 3-4 12 week blocks of 50-60 leading up to it
Yeah, that seems to be the unfortunate reality. I think 2019 is more realistic. Eh, at least I can go for a sub-65 10 mile this year.

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#9190431 - 11/17/17 01:48 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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About to cross 800 miles for the year. Looks like 1,000 is off the table as I missed a couple weeks for surgery recovery.

Still 800 is my best year, I got to a late start, and our winters SUCK. I could see 900 happening still.
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#9190446 - 11/17/17 01:55 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
KEVIN RETURNS Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Chas
 Originally Posted By: Kevin Spacey
I'd think if you honestly want to BQ you'd have 3-4 12 week blocks of 50-60 leading up to it
Yeah, that seems to be the unfortunate reality. I think 2019 is more realistic. Eh, at least I can go for a sub-65 10 mile this year.


wow thats awesome, just looking at the mcmillan/vdot table thats equivalent to:

5:23 mile
18:44 5k
38:53 10k
1:26:42 half
3:02:28 full

me: I'm hoping I'll end up around 20:30--20:40 in a 5K race next week , kinda sick but whatever, feel good enough I think. I'll accept even [1] second off my PR I guess tho hehe [<20:55]
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#9192246 - 11/20/17 01:49 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Chas
 Originally Posted By: Kevin Spacey
I'd think if you honestly want to BQ you'd have 3-4 12 week blocks of 50-60 leading up to it
Yeah, that seems to be the unfortunate reality. I think 2019 is more realistic. Eh, at least I can go for a sub-65 10 mile this year.


Based on personal experience...yeah, youíre mileage needs to get bumped up to the 60mpw range to go for that BQ. Hereís a screenshot of my Strava from when I qualified the first time. It was my second real attempt. First time (at the same race the year before) I blew up spectacularly at mile 21 and limped to a 3:20 I think. I was only doing about 40mpw. This time I focused on being focused. I only looked 5 feet in front of me, didnít worry about pace groups, just looked at my watch to make sure I was on pace. I also took nutrition like clockwork: 2 or 3 Clif blocks every 20 minutes, water every other aid station.

I highly encourage you going after it though! Qualifying is such a great accomplishment, and running the race is like icing on the cake.


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#9192249 - 11/20/17 01:54 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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As for me...Iíve been sidelined with a pulled lower back muscle for the last week or two. Been trying to walk just to maintain my fitness, but itís been a real blow to my mental well being. Iím grumpy and restless not being able to run. Going to try a short one on the treadmill today to see how it feels.

I did sign up for the Black Canyon 100k in Arizona in February again though, and thatís got me excited. Waiting till Dec 2 Western States lottery before I start planning out the rest of next year.
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#9193053 - 11/21/17 11:35 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom


Based on personal experience...yeah, youíre mileage needs to get bumped up to the 60mpw range to go for that BQ. Hereís a screenshot of my Strava from when I qualified the first time. It was my second real attempt. First time (at the same race the year before) I blew up spectacularly at mile 21 and limped to a 3:20 I think. I was only doing about 40mpw. This time I focused on being focused. I only looked 5 feet in front of me, didnít worry about pace groups, just looked at my watch to make sure I was on pace. I also took nutrition like clockwork: 2 or 3 Clif blocks every 20 minutes, water every other aid station.

Thanks for the encouragement; I've had a lot of progress in the past few years. 2014 I ran Baltimore (very hilly) at a 3:42, then 2015 was marine corps marathon at a 3:27, and then last year MCM again at 3:18, so I'm dropping time quickly. Looking back, I should have been a sub 3:15, but I stupidly stopped eating and like you, had an epic meltdown at 21.

I'm hoping I can get in the 3:12-3:13 range this year and go for Chicago and BQ in 2019. Fingers crossed...

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#9193535 - 11/21/17 06:32 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc.]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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Very similar progression for me as well. Personally I feel that thereís a learning curve to running a fast marathon thatís just as important as the physical training side. Keep at it...I bet the next one you nail it.
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#9195193 - 11/24/17 10:46 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
KEVIN RETURNS Offline
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I just pulled a 20:20 5k out of my a$$ and wasn't a whiny bitch after mile 2 for once

Splits: 6:28,6:38,6:34

Didn't hurt that there was a fine redhead wearing a big sur marathon tee running my exact pace that I locked onto

<20:00 I think starting to become feasible \:o
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#9196893 - 11/27/17 06:41 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: KEVIN RETURNS]
Design Offline
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Nice job man. Always helps to have someone to chase. \:D
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#9199321 - 11/30/17 01:00 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
MIGHTY gb Offline
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I did 150 floors on the stairmaster yesterday in 43:00. Fitness watch said I burned 593 calories

I don't run for exercise, ever. Hate it. Hate hate hate.
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#9199354 - 11/30/17 01:42 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: MIGHTY gb]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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Trying to figure out a course of action for 2018 as races entries are opening up.

I'm thinking I want to get a 50miler or 100km in. Just not sure how ready I am.

I've been sort of taking November off (had to take 10 days off after surgery) so I've only ran 30 miles all month. I think October/September I was averaging 25/week.

Basically how do I move from 25mpw(average) to 50mi in a day ready.
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#9200027 - 12/01/17 01:33 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
KEVIN RETURNS Offline
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Well since a proper marathon requires 50-60+ mpw, this sounds like it would be more
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#9200117 - 12/01/17 03:21 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
Trying to figure out a course of action for 2018 as races entries are opening up.

I'm thinking I want to get a 50miler or 100km in. Just not sure how ready I am.

I've been sort of taking November off (had to take 10 days off after surgery) so I've only ran 30 miles all month. I think October/September I was averaging 25/week.

Basically how do I move from 25mpw(average) to 50mi in a day ready.


Based on how you felt after, and how well you did at the 50k, I think if you got a good 12 week build up to a peak of a couple 55-60 mile weeks, youíd manage a 50 miler just fine. 100k would require hitting 70 a week at least once. Itís a whole nother animal.
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#9200271 - 12/01/17 06:45 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: KEVIN RETURNS]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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 Originally Posted By: KEVIN RETURNS
Well since a proper marathon requires 50-60+ mpw, this sounds like it would be more


I'm not really interested in "proper". I'm just looking to finish a race in a pretty place and mostly have fun doing so.

I think my 50km showed that my 3-ish hours a week of cycling counts for something.

So Ampsman say 7-8 hours a week, which actually was actually what I did for July/august this year.

Backing into mrmom's information 55-60 sounds closer to 9-10 hours( I assumed 6mph because mix of trails/road) or 70 (11.5)

Given the goal of a 100km it sounds like a month of 9-10 with at least one week of 11-12 hours.

Now to fill in the details and get my ass running....lol
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#9222820 - 01/03/18 04:49 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
Design Offline
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So I think I will finally pick up a semi-decent GPS watch for (mostly) running and the occasional tri. What's CSI think of this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Forerunner...ds=garmin+920xt


Pricing seems pretty good...
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#9226017 - 01/06/18 07:04 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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Iíve had the 920xt since it came out, which replaced the 910xt I had before that. Love mine and have had no issues with it. Itís lasted up to about 16 hours during a hundred, and works great in the water during both pool and open water swimming.
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#9226445 - 01/07/18 06:06 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
Design Offline
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Thanks Chris. Did some reading and it seems a sure bet. No wristband HR sensor; but they offer a bundle with the chest strap for $30 more.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00O4EXVX6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1394B1K82XHSA&psc=1
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#9243885 - 01/31/18 12:19 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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Second 50km on the books. Arches 50km
Compared to last time:
1,000' less vert, much harder terrain.
shaved off 20-ish minutes.
Carried pack

last races was mostly 2 sustained climbs from sea level to about 2k.
This race was dozens of short climbs between 4k-5k. Lots of rock. Some ugly undulating slick rock.

Paced much more agressively. I think last time I deliberately held to 11+ until I hit mile 27. Once I realized I could make it I put down 3-4 8s.

This time I was trying for <10:30-ish, Started out with about 7 10 minute miles, but I just couldn't hold it with the terrain and altitude. Slowed progressively as the hills got steeper to a couple of 12s and 11:0# average at the final aid station by around Mile 25. Dropped my pack and nearly all my gear and put down some mid 9s on very tired legs. pulled the moving pace down. Final: 5:29:44 moving time, 5:37 chip.

Pavement, slick rock with LOTS of knee abusing large steps, a little sand, mixed rock, snow, etc.

Overall a great race. Utah desert in the winter is gorgeous. Hard course, definitely need your ankles/knees ready.

25th overall, 10th in AG.
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#9247582 - 02/05/18 11:00 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
KEVIN RETURNS Offline
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^damn son, I guess I am officially over doubting your ability to finish these shorter-ultra thingies. You're much tougher than your mileage would suggest \:D

Me I am theoretically focusing on the mile/5k this year. Hope to not get the flu but I think it's inevitable and I'm in the incubation period right now, but I do hope to hit the track this week.

Injury management seems good, got some hill work in last week and am averaging about 18 mpw in spite of traveling a fair amount this year. Also around 50 mpw biking and 3500 yds/week in the pool.

Might enter a 5k race here shortly otherwise I have a half in SF as my next event that I'm not doing anything specific for. My long runs these days are 6-7 milers at most (injury management reasons), but I don't think I'll fall apart in a half anymore but I probably should get some HMP/goal pace workouts in so that it isn't too much of a cry fest. But I think doing 5k based workouts (faster pace, but lessor distance) make that somewhat less necessary. Of course I say that now but I had the same theory last year in a half race where I set my current PR (1:43) and I kinda blew up a bit around mile 9/10, but I think that was really the sun/heat affecting me, probably added about 90s to what I could have done if I had been able to hold pace the last 4 miles. In reality I probably blew up last year specifically because I avoided/failed to complete any tempo/long tempo runs around 10k to 10k+15s/mi pace, so I was running in an unfamiliar/untrained zone. Which I will do again this year, lol, because tempo workouts just hurt so damn much.
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#9247636 - 02/05/18 11:42 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: KEVIN RETURNS]
Design Offline
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Nice job on the 50K man. Great time for such a brutal course.

Still training for the LA Marathon in March. Ran the Surf City Half yesterday using my wife's bib (she got injured). Took it easy and paced with a couple friends along the course. 1:51:15 or so.

My longer miles are trending better than expected. Knocked out last week's 20 miler in 2:50, or around an 8:25 pace. I definitely slowed down around mile 18, so thinking of dialing things back to around 8:40. But mentally, this was a pretty big breakthrough for me.

Still taking the midweek runs hard. 6-7 mile tempos @ 7:45/mi.
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#9253310 - 02/13/18 04:54 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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Nice work guys!

My early season training is going well. Had a great race at the Calico 50k last month where I was able to grab a 20 minute PR on that course with a steady effort. Tried to sneak in under 5:00, but I forgot how long the hill was back up to the finish line. \:\( 5:00:52. 10th OA, 5th in my AG (fast old bastards!)

Next race is Black Canyon 100k this Saturday. Expecting a BIG improvement over last years 13:16 on a modified course (out and back with more climbing) and hopefully no rain/mud. Weather is looking perfect with a hi/lo of 55/34 and sunny. Shooting for an 11:30.

Next month is my sixth Way Too Cool 50k, then the Leona Divide 50 miler in April.
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#9253781 - 02/14/18 10:39 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
dirtyS13drifta Offline
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I think I've come up with my plan finally for this race season.

I'm going to chill on ultras for 6 months. I've accomplished a lot but I want to be able to maintain my weight and strength so I'm going to shift towards speed and keeping around 30mpw.

I'm hoping to cut 3-4 minutes off my half. Last year I cut my PR by 10 minutes and I was barely averaging 25mpw for only 4 monhths. I'm hoping with an entire year more, some ultras, and slighly more base I can shave that down by another 20-ish seconds a mile.

Maybe PR the 5km, 10km in the process. The race would be July 4. Then I'll transition to longs. I'll finally do my timbeline trail goal (39mi, 7k vert unsupported apline wilderness). Then Plan on a 50 miler in September (and november?)
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#9255609 - 02/16/18 12:00 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: dirtyS13drifta]
KEVIN RETURNS Offline
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That sounds like the opposite avoiding ultras lol?

Me I'm gonna sign up for the Carlsbad 5000, even pace to 20:00 and see if I can hang on (and kick the last 400m to sneak under), so scared. But this is year 4/5? Of trying to sneak under 20, and I'm not getting any younger. About 6 weeks from now /woot

Gonna hit the track weekly for 6x800, 5x1000' and ofc 3x and 4x mile repeats at/about 5k goal pace.

Last time I PRd the 5k,, it seems I fell into my 3 or 4x mile repeat pace on 90s rest rather easily, so I need to do these again I guess

I've spent about 4 weeks traveling YTD and its cramping my prep a bit, also severely jet-lagged/sleep deprived is hurting performance in workouts
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#9256626 - 02/17/18 12:56 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: KEVIN RETURNS]
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I have popped in and out of this thread, as well as running, over the years. Kids are growing up, working more stable hours, so I am currently back to running 4x per week, with a long run on the weekend. I am eyeing the Folsom Lake 50k in April, and will have to train on a non-ideal schedule probably. Getting about 10-15mi during the week and long run on the weekends. I think my time to the race is good for a buildup.

Thoughts, wisdom? Shit, I got a Fenix 5X for motivation, so I might as well do something.
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#9256920 - 02/17/18 07:06 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Corytrade]
KEVIN RETURNS Offline
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That sounds similar to the program that left me with repetitive stress injuries in my lower body (Achilles, foot) and hip heh. Hopefully that doesn't happen to you, but there seems to be a lot of literature that suggests having the long run at/above 40% of weekly mileage leads to these types of injuries. YMMV, I just try to get a 45 min or 1 Hour or a track workout in, but obviously I have no distance related goals (or expectations), in fact, I'm a little apprehensive about my half races this year heh. Oh well, I figure I can fake it past mile 9
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#9257078 - 02/18/18 11:09 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: KEVIN RETURNS]
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Cory...
As long as youíre fairly fit, and can get some long-ish trail runs in (Iíd say a minimum of a 20 miler) Iím sure youíll be able to finish it. Itís a mostly flat and runnable course, which can lead to disaster if you go out too hard. I would say take it super easy the first 20 miles (maybe a little run/walk action) and then push it at the end if youíre feeling good.
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#9258031 - 02/20/18 12:16 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
Corytrade Offline
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 Originally Posted By: KEVIN RETURNS
That sounds similar to the program that left me with repetitive stress injuries in my lower body (Achilles, foot) and hip heh. Hopefully that doesn't happen to you, but there seems to be a lot of literature that suggests having the long run at/above 40% of weekly mileage leads to these types of injuries. YMMV, I just try to get a 45 min or 1 Hour or a track workout in, but obviously I have no distance related goals (or expectations), in fact, I'm a little apprehensive about my half races this year heh. Oh well, I figure I can fake it past mile 9

This is interesting, so roughly around the 15mi long run mark I will need to start upping my weekday schedule. Good to know. If my memory serves me right, and my light familiarity with your workout history, I believe you will do anything but run if you can help it, correct? What races are you looking at this year?

 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom
Cory...
As long as youíre fairly fit, and can get some long-ish trail runs in (Iíd say a minimum of a 20 miler) Iím sure youíll be able to finish it. Itís a mostly flat and runnable course, which can lead to disaster if you go out too hard. I would say take it super easy the first 20 miles (maybe a little run/walk action) and then push it at the end if youíre feeling good.

Good to know, thanks for the advice. The hardest thing for me has always been to go slow out of the gate. However, I am using my recovery runs @ 10:00/mile as an idea of how I will need to pace on such a long race. I plan on progressing at ~2 miles per long run to get to at least one 20miler before the race. I just did an 8 miler this weekend in 1h15m, so I am feeling good about my current pace. Obviously mileage gain and pace is not a linear function though, so I am trying to be realistic. Anyway, good luck on the Way to Cool this year.
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#9258045 - 02/20/18 03:17 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Corytrade]
KEVIN RETURNS Offline
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I am apathetic about my running generally, but did just finish a 42 mile week. I substitute a long bike ride for the long run these days and focus on the 5k/mile and keep up a swim program. So I'm all over the place. Anyways I'm looking forward to a couple 5ks, a couple 70.3s, 2 13.1s, a bike race here and there, and a swim meet or two. Maybe some open track all comer mile races too.
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#9258192 - 02/20/18 10:01 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: KEVIN RETURNS]
Mrs. Ironmom Offline
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Yeah, pacing is important....especially in a trail ultra. You can always tell the first timers at a 50k...theyíre the ones running up the first hills when everyone else is hiking, lol. Theyíre also the ones that I enjoy picking off in the later miles when they fall apart. \:D

For the most part you want the pace to feel like your ďall dayĒ pace...something you feel you could maintain for hours on end. Unlike a road race, youíll hear a ton of chatter out on the trail. That old ďconversational paceĒ is a great suggestion. Youíll also want to figure out your nutrition and hydration needs.
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#9258376 - 02/20/18 01:26 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
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Loc: Long Beach, CA
A little race recap from the Black Canyon 100k.

Overall it went really well. The second half was deceptively hard, and much harder than the first half, so I wasnít as fast as I thought I could be. I was able to run steady and pretty strong thought, and did a good job of working through the low points of the race. It got pretty warm, and the dry desert air made it hard to tell you were sweating, but once I realized how salty I was, I upped my water and salt tab intake. Nutrition was good...didnít carry anything and just ate cookies and watermelon from the aid station. Managed to move up from 107th at the mile 50 aid station to 84th at the finish. I love picking off the carnage late in a race!

Finish time was 12:44, which is a 30 minute 100k PR.

Iím pretty sore 2 days later but just managed a 4 mile jog without too much discomfort.

Next up: Way Too Cool 50k in less than 2 weeks!
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#9263440 - 02/26/18 11:43 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Mrs. Ironmom]
Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 29887
Loc: Maryland
I need the days to hurry up and get longer. Call me a diva, but running in the dark is getting super lame. Of course, remind me of this in August when it's 95 and 99% humidity out and it's long run day
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