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#2508780 - 04/04/08 02:09 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: OnyxEros]
FCobra94 Offline
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Registered: 10/22/01
Posts: 19689
Loc: MD
 Originally Posted By: OnyxEros

Ive never done anything you describe above, and yes it's a bitch move to fuck up a car and throw some duct tape and a band-aid on it and try to pass it off as if nothing was ever wrong.

you fuck up, you deal with it, don't make your problems someone elses headache.



ps blowing a clutch and sending a rod through the block are 2 completely different things

So, WTF do you suggest he do then? Fix it correctly and then when it's time to trade say "Hey, I know I'm trading this car in, but since the motor isn't completely stock and since you offered me $14K....I'll only accept 7."

I mean, what's your angle?

How is fixing it back to OEM standards a "bitch move?" Maybe I confuse the fact that if my shit breaks I want it fixed right, if not better than before, While others are happy with getting it done quick & dirty. Either way, duct tape and band-aid is still far from what I had in mind, or even suggested lol Stop Leak + Hondabond

 Quote:
ps blowing a clutch and sending a rod through the block are 2 completely different things

True, but a blown clutch signifies abuse from driving like a jackass. But when a motor is KNOWN to have weak rods and a good amount of others have gotten a replacement shortblock after experiencing this SAME problem (stock, no less) that's a build quality issue. God only knows what kinda A/F's and knock counts that motor has seen during it's short life, but it's not like people haven't seen the same shitty results out of a bone stock drivetrain.

The more important issue here though is that you are driving around in a stock EVO lol shoulda just bought a Lancer \:\(
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#2508970 - 04/04/08 02:50 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: FCobra94]
OnyxEros Offline
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Registered: 02/17/03
Posts: 17517
Loc: Seattle
 Originally Posted By: FCobra94
 Originally Posted By: OnyxEros

Ive never done anything you describe above, and yes it's a bitch move to fuck up a car and throw some duct tape and a band-aid on it and try to pass it off as if nothing was ever wrong.

you fuck up, you deal with it, don't make your problems someone elses headache.



ps blowing a clutch and sending a rod through the block are 2 completely different things

So, WTF do you suggest he do then? Fix it correctly and then when it's time to trade say "Hey, I know I'm trading this car in, but since the motor isn't completely stock and since you offered me $14K....I'll only accept 7."

I mean, what's your angle?

How is fixing it back to OEM standards a "bitch move?" Maybe I confuse the fact that if my shit breaks I want it fixed right, if not better than before, While others are happy with getting it done quick & dirty. Either way, duct tape and band-aid is still far from what I had in mind, or even suggested lol Stop Leak + Hondabond

 Quote:
ps blowing a clutch and sending a rod through the block are 2 completely different things

True, but a blown clutch signifies abuse from driving like a jackass. But when a motor is KNOWN to have weak rods and a good amount of others have gotten a replacement shortblock after experiencing this SAME problem (stock, no less) that's a build quality issue. God only knows what kinda A/F's and knock counts that motor has seen during it's short life, but it's not like people haven't seen the same shitty results out of a bone stock drivetrain.

The more important issue here though is that you are driving around in a stock EVO lol shoulda just bought a Lancer \:\(


Ill say it again for the cheap seats
You attempting a 1/2 assed fix on a car you fucked up and attempting to pass it off as "nothing is wrong with it" is a move by a pussy.

What do I suggest he do? Fix it and keep it, it's his car for the long haul now. Maybe buy the busted long block sleeve it and actually put the right rods and forged pistons in it.


You throw out "weak rods" like any minute now every ms6 that has ever been sold will puke and die. I have a bit more faith in the 1,000's of people driving around with the MS6 and MS3 stock that have not sent a rod through the block than one guy that modified his and blew it up.

The number don't justify your 'weak rod' argument.

I don't really see your point in bringing up my car, i don't drive a car with a hole in the block.
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#2508974 - 04/04/08 02:50 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: Z24 lol]
daisy Offline
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Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 44903
Loc: Tacoma, WA
 Originally Posted By: HoustonRSX
 Originally Posted By: daisy
 Originally Posted By: HoustonRSX
No carfax wont show that. Carfax doesnt show half the shit wrong with cars.
Umm, Carfax shows trips to the dealership. Everytime I had my 6 in the shop, even for oil changes, it showed up on Carfax.
And carfax doesnt show when my celica was stolen, in 2 wrecks, had its engine replaced due to hydrolock and my spec-vs wreck even though they were all repaired at dealerships.
I guess it varies per dealership. But just so you know, some Carfaxes will show that kind of information.
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#2509147 - 04/04/08 03:33 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: OnyxEros]
FCobra94 Offline
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Registered: 10/22/01
Posts: 19689
Loc: MD
 Originally Posted By: OnyxEros

Ill say it again for the cheap seats
You attempting a 1/2 assed fix on a car you fucked up and attempting to pass it off as "nothing is wrong with it" is a move by a pussy.

And I say again; WHAT IS SO HALF ASSED ABOUT FIXING AN ENGINE CORRECTLY?1/1?1/1/1/!/ You act like every vehicle is destined for the junk yard if the word "machine shop" is even used within a 25 ft radius of the damn thing.

 Quote:

You throw out "weak rods" like any minute now every ms6 that has ever been sold will puke and die.

No, I throw in the weak rods argument because Mazda is treating this like it's the first time they've ever seen this problem with this car. I know, the mods completely null and void the whole situation, but that does not mean that this car should now be his for life. Are you not familiar with how many warrantied short blocks are out there? Are all ~02 M3 owners who blew their motors because of shitty bearings now bound to their cars for life because they've had work done to their motors? Same goes for all those people in EP's/RSX's/etc. who had short blocks replaced due to oil consumption issues? Or Lexus/Toyota customers getting their bottom ends rebuilt for sludging issues? Or are these situations some how different in your opinion?

I'm less stuck on the fact that this guy is trying to deal with this problem and more concerned with your odd way of thinking, in general. Would him being stock and Mazda still not honoring his warranty make this situation any different in your eyes, our holiness?

If everyone followed that kinda mind set, at this point, half of SvA would have dozens of cars in their front lawns being held up by blocks. I mean, give me a fuckin break here \:\/

And the only reason I keep bringing up your car is because...well...I don't have one and wish I did *takes ball and goes home* I'm also assuming that if the unfortunate were to happen and you spin a bearing though, that you plan on keeping it "for the long haul" lol in sickness and in health
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#2509208 - 04/04/08 03:47 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: FCobra94]
OnyxEros Offline
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Registered: 02/17/03
Posts: 17517
Loc: Seattle
 Originally Posted By: FCobra94


I'm less stuck on the fact that this guy is trying to deal with this problem and more concerned with your odd way of thinking, in general. Would him being stock and Mazda still not honoring his warranty make this situation any different in your eyes, our holiness?

If everyone followed that kinda mind set, at this point, half of SvA would have dozens of cars in their front lawns being held up by blocks. I mean, give me a fuckin break here \:\/

And the only reason I keep bringing up your car is because...well...I don't have one and wish I did *takes ball and goes home*


If the car was never modded and threw a rod, I see no problem in giving the keys back to the dealer and telling him/her to shove it somewhere

Im only talking about modded cars

I love machine shops you can trust. I think this would be a fun project. But i don't think it should be passed off as anything stock if you are going to buy a questionable block and just throw it in the car with mismatched pistons and potentially 3 other weak rods.

just not the way to go about it.

if by some godforsaken chance i mod the evo and i lean it out and blow the motor this bitch is being built and im keeping it.

but that's for another thread

another PS
There is still a difference between shitty bearings, paper oil pumps, shitty ring seal and PUTTING A HOLE IN YOUR BLOCK.

Ever try putting a hole in a bare engine block?


Edited by OnyxEros (04/04/08 03:50 PM)
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#2509324 - 04/04/08 04:20 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: OnyxEros]
FCobra94 Offline
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Registered: 10/22/01
Posts: 19689
Loc: MD
No, I hear ya. I guess it comes down to whether or not you wanna be shady about it. Come to think of it, if I were in his situation, I wouldn't know where to turn as far as machine shops were concerned. My life would be a living nightmare if I were in his shoes because I can not stand the idea of trusting someone else to do a job up to my standards, especially when a fraction of an inch is the difference between correct and catastrophe waiting to happen

That being said, there is no way I would let someone else inherit my past mistakes either, but given that my way of going about car repair is "get it done right, or don't get it done at all" I would have no problem moving on from that headache if the problem was corrected to/above OEM standards; whether that be a drop shipped new short block, or piecing together new pieces and getting it built "professionally."
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#2509345 - 04/04/08 04:24 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: FCobra94]
Z24 lol Offline
and Fuck you for the new name lol
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I still dont see how this is shady. I mean he is rebuilding the engine. Its the same exact thing the dealership would have done.
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#2509347 - 04/04/08 04:25 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: Z24 lol]
FCobra94 Offline
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Registered: 10/22/01
Posts: 19689
Loc: MD
 Originally Posted By: HoustonRSX
I still dont see how this is shady. I mean he is rebuilding the engine. Its the same exact thing the dealership would have done.

That's what I've been trying to get at...
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#2509374 - 04/04/08 04:42 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: FCobra94]
Benelliwang Offline
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Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 5590
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My original carfax posting has nothing to do with shady or ripping people off. My concern was that if it shows on carfax, it may be sold at a much lower price or people will not buy it because of some concerns. It may be hard to sell or sell for less $ even with a perfectly running car....
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#2509382 - 04/04/08 04:44 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: FCobra94]
OnyxEros Offline
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Registered: 02/17/03
Posts: 17517
Loc: Seattle
Ok guys here's the problem
You are swapping one broken block for another

I think that most factory outfits have various pistons, rods and bearings that go into each motor (no bore is perfect)

So let's take a stock block with a cracked piston (no telling the other damage you cant see) and take internals out of a stock block with a hole in it(no telling how much stress the other components were under) and throw it together.

I am not saying im the know it all of engine building but this sounds like such a bad idea it's dangerous.

If you want to do it right
Buy the used block have all the cyl walls checked and honed. Measure the bores and buy new pistons, rods and bearings.

Also check the head, no telling what if any metal got up there.

Check the crank
Change the thrust washers
wouldn't be a bad idea to rebuild the oil pump

Then drive it for 1k miles to make sure it's not a smoking bastard


Now you have a brand new motor, you may love the car


i love ps
unless those two valve reliefs are supposed to be there there was piston to valve contact, i wonder what if anything would cause that damage on one piston and not the others...in which case you may have a bigger problem with that shortblock



Edited by OnyxEros (04/04/08 04:47 PM)
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#2509394 - 04/04/08 04:47 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: OnyxEros]
Z24 lol Offline
and Fuck you for the new name lol
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Registered: 06/08/00
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He isnt just throwing it together. He is having a mechanic and others look over the parts to make sure its all good.
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#2509402 - 04/04/08 04:48 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: Z24 lol]
OnyxEros Offline
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Registered: 02/17/03
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Loc: Seattle
he's reusing pistons and rods from 2 bum motors
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#2509418 - 04/04/08 04:51 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: OnyxEros]
Z24 lol Offline
and Fuck you for the new name lol
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Registered: 06/08/00
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 Originally Posted By: OnyxEros
he's reusing pistons and rods from 2 bum motors


and you think if a dealership rebuilt motor #2 they would replace everything? Nope they would only replace what is broken.

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#2509440 - 04/04/08 04:57 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: Z24 lol]
OnyxEros Offline
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Registered: 02/17/03
Posts: 17517
Loc: Seattle
 Originally Posted By: HoustonRSX
 Originally Posted By: OnyxEros
he's reusing pistons and rods from 2 bum motors


and you think if a dealership rebuilt motor #2 they would replace everything? Nope they would only replace what is broken.


just because a dealership sucks doesn't mean he shouldn't do everything in his power to make it right
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#2509463 - 04/04/08 05:02 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: OnyxEros]
Z24 lol Offline
and Fuck you for the new name lol
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Registered: 06/08/00
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 Originally Posted By: OnyxEros
 Originally Posted By: HoustonRSX
 Originally Posted By: OnyxEros
he's reusing pistons and rods from 2 bum motors


and you think if a dealership rebuilt motor #2 they would replace everything? Nope they would only replace what is broken.


just because a dealership sucks doesn't mean he shouldn't do everything in his power to make it right


So basically by your view a dealership can half ass it and resell the car, but if a person does it, it is shady and they should keep the car forever?

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#2509469 - 04/04/08 05:03 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: Z24 lol]
B15Sentra Offline
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As I stated earlier - I will not sell the car or even trade it in unless the motor is up to par. After getting several professional and well-qualified opinions on my "Frankenstein" motor, I will then make my decision. Furthermore, I would not sell this car privately without disclosing that the warranty is voided. I am trading it in and surely the dealer I trade it in to can apply their own warranty to it.

Again, as I stated earlier - due to my priorities and financial situation I must sell this car for something cheaper and more reliable. In addition to notoriously weak rods, the MS6s constantly go through turbos, differentials, axles, and various other warranty work. While not everyone's rods are breaking, the aforementioned problems are VERY common. I also am moving to Southern California and plan on leaving the nest shortly thereafter. So, I'm working on tightening up my finances.


I DOUBT the dealership I took my car to will report anything on the title. Worthless. Tyrone Square Mazda in St. Petersburg, FL - stay the fuck away unless you need extra grease to slick your hair back or have an affinity for gold chains. But, it's certainly possible.

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#2509489 - 04/04/08 05:06 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: OnyxEros]
B15Sentra Offline
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Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 6366
Loc: Bay Area, CA
 Originally Posted By: OnyxEros


i love ps
unless those two valve reliefs are supposed to be there there was piston to valve contact, i wonder what if anything would cause that damage on one piston and not the others...in which case you may have a bigger problem with that shortblock



I'm glad you brought this up, Mohandas Gandi. If anyone wants to throw some more info out on why pistons crack - I'm all eyes.

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#2509506 - 04/04/08 05:09 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: B15Sentra ]
Z24 lol Offline
and Fuck you for the new name lol
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Registered: 06/08/00
Posts: 43359
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 Originally Posted By: B15Sentra
 Originally Posted By: OnyxEros


i love ps
unless those two valve reliefs are supposed to be there there was piston to valve contact, i wonder what if anything would cause that damage on one piston and not the others...in which case you may have a bigger problem with that shortblock



I'm glad you brought this up, Mohandas Gandi. If anyone wants to throw some more info out on why pistons crack - I'm all eyes.


Does your MS6 motor have dual path intake runners like the Spec-v?

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#2509515 - 04/04/08 05:11 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: Z24 lol]
B15Sentra Offline
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Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 6366
Loc: Bay Area, CA
 Originally Posted By: HoustonRSX
 Originally Posted By: B15Sentra
 Originally Posted By: OnyxEros


i love ps
unless those two valve reliefs are supposed to be there there was piston to valve contact, i wonder what if anything would cause that damage on one piston and not the others...in which case you may have a bigger problem with that shortblock



I'm glad you brought this up, Mohandas Gandi. If anyone wants to throw some more info out on why pistons crack - I'm all eyes.


Does your MS6 motor have dual path intake runners like the Spec-v?




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#2509525 - 04/04/08 05:13 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: B15Sentra ]
Z24 lol Offline
and Fuck you for the new name lol
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Registered: 06/08/00
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I meant secondary time ones. I have heard of a few people cracking a piston due to one of the screws getting in there. Sounds like the car had an overheating problem.
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#2509535 - 04/04/08 05:15 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: Z24 lol]
B15Sentra Offline
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Registered: 09/25/01
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Loc: Bay Area, CA
 Originally Posted By: HoustonRSX
I meant secondary time ones. I have heard of a few people cracking a piston due to one of the screws getting in there. Sounds like the car had an overheating problem.


Ah. No - it does not.

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#2509587 - 04/04/08 05:29 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: B15Sentra ]
OnyxEros Offline
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Registered: 02/17/03
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without seeing the head from that bottom end it's tough to say, anything could have happened but it seems that 2 valves hit not just one I can't tell from that angle if it's two intake, exhaust or 1 of each.

but i would be concerned what damage was done incase a valve shattered and dirtied up other cyl.

I think the easy solution is to find another short block but if you buy this one be prepared to change everything once it's been disassembled to survey the damage.

if you still want it you should have him take the oil pan off and take pictures, see if there is any metal down there.

and then everything else that i mentioned before would have to be done
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#2509657 - 04/04/08 05:53 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: B15Sentra ]
Design Offline
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I'm surprised that only a BOV and test pipe would cause you to throw a rod at 11K. Did you turn up the boost at all, or did you just drive it hard most of the time?

I think a tear down, fresh block, and rebuild is your best bet. Like others have said, I'd be concerned about the integrity of parts from the motor you referenced.
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#2509821 - 04/04/08 07:10 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: OnyxEros]
FCobra94 Offline
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Registered: 10/22/01
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 Originally Posted By: OnyxEros

If you want to do it right
Buy the used block have all the cyl walls checked and honed. Measure the bores and buy new pistons, rods and bearings.

Also check the head, no telling what if any metal got up there.

Check the crank
Change the thrust washers
wouldn't be a bad idea to rebuild the oil pump

Then drive it for 1k miles to make sure it's not a smoking bastard


Now you have a brand new motor, you may love the car

You just stated what I've been trying to drill into your head all fucking day

But yeah, if the second motor is FUBAR he obviously will not be going with that option.
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#2510491 - 04/04/08 11:50 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: FCobra94]
OnyxEros Offline
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Registered: 02/17/03
Posts: 17517
Loc: Seattle
 Originally Posted By: FCobra94
 Originally Posted By: OnyxEros

If you want to do it right
Buy the used block have all the cyl walls checked and honed. Measure the bores and buy new pistons, rods and bearings.

Also check the head, no telling what if any metal got up there.

Check the crank
Change the thrust washers
wouldn't be a bad idea to rebuild the oil pump

Then drive it for 1k miles to make sure it's not a smoking bastard


Now you have a brand new motor, you may love the car

You just stated what I've been trying to drill into your head all fucking day

But yeah, if the second motor is FUBAR he obviously will not be going with that option.


you've been saying it's ok to pass it off to a dealer as just an everyday trade in, and it's not

by the time he spends the money to do it right, no one will pay what it's worth and he may fall back in love with a car that no longer has a hole in the block

see the difference?
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#2511385 - 04/05/08 01:06 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: Design]
B15Sentra Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Design
I'm surprised that only a BOV and test pipe would cause you to throw a rod at 11K. Did you turn up the boost at all, or did you just drive it hard most of the time?


The dealership voided it based on the BOV and test pipe. In addition, the car had a CAI and an aftermarket motor mount. Previously, I had turned up the boost (15.5psi -> 17.5-18psi). I also had a catback on it for a month or 2. Very minor modifications. The car went to the track twice, otherwise I drove it on my hellish commute to my cubicle and back. \:\) I drive and enjoy all of my cars, but I was definitely the easiest on this one.

I know you're concerned because you want an MS3. The only cars that are blowing that are stock or minorly modded are early build MS6s.

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#2511530 - 04/05/08 02:38 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: B15Sentra ]
kyden Offline
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those are valve reliefs.
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#2511810 - 04/05/08 05:37 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: Z24 lol]
ScottStaypuff Offline
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You want my advice? I was faced with a similar situation with my Neon. I chose to not bandaid the cylinder by slapping in a different piston. I bought another short block.

So... A cheapass Neon owner decided not to do it, should the owner of a 30k car?
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#2511897 - 04/05/08 06:21 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: ]
B15Sentra Offline
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Registered: 09/25/01
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 Originally Posted By: Adam7
So what's the plan, another S2000?


02' Berlina Black or Grand Prix White S2000.

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#2511900 - 04/05/08 06:22 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: ScottStaypuff]
B15Sentra Offline
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 Originally Posted By: ScottStaypuff
You want my advice? I was faced with a similar situation with my Neon. I chose to not bandaid the cylinder by slapping in a different piston. I bought another short block.

So... A cheapass Neon owner decided not to do it, should the owner of a 30k car?


Entirely different situation though. I can't keep this car. Also, $30k cars have $30k-car short blocks and pistons. \:\)

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#2512381 - 04/05/08 10:36 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: ]
ScottStaypuff Offline
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Registered: 03/05/00
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PS: My short block came loaded with SRT internals for $700.

500whp capable block, $700. Make you sick?
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#2517495 - 04/07/08 08:43 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: ScottStaypuff]
B15Sentra Offline
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Another one bites the dust!

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123702905

How dare he put a CAI on his car! $13k for the dealership to replace the engine.



I offered $400 for the short block...did I go too low?

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#2517496 - 04/07/08 08:43 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: B15Sentra ]
B15Sentra Offline
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Also - how in the world am I going to ship this thing? What does a short block weigh?

Edited by B15Sentra (04/07/08 08:43 PM)

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#2517559 - 04/07/08 09:08 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: B15Sentra ]
skierd Offline
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Its probably 300-400 pounds. Strap it to a pallet, wrap it in plastic, and pray. Its gotta go via a freight carrier.

Also, why not stop fucking around and order this:
http://siteground207.com/~protegeg/index.php?cPath=281_34_365

With the money you have to invest in the car anyways, might as well go off the deep end and keep it. Or at least source the pistons and rods from them.
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2012 Outback - 2008 Yamaha WR250R v2.0

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#2517574 - 04/07/08 09:13 PM Re: Mazdaspeed6 Motor Swap [Re: B15Sentra ]
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
I see no problem with picking up that screwed piston motor..though im not so sure for that much coin.

put together a motor with good piston rods/ with new rings , new bearings and you are good to go.

itll be fine. if you were going to keep the car, youd probably benefit from building the motor(forged stuff).

and lol@ the valve reliefs being caused by valves hitting the piston. no fucking engine in the world is going to cause perfect and identical reliefs into a piston if there is contact...and going that deep.
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