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#1272588 - 04/18/07 01:26 PM My HS '99 Civic Si Build
TinmanEM1 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 532
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Yes, I realize that it's a stock class, so it's not going to be the most exciting build ever, but I decided that, rather than continue to turn this into the Tinman Forum and have every other post devoted to every question I have, I'll keep them all in one nice, tidy thread. (Aside from that, I'm bored at work today, and this will fill some time.) Hopefully, in addition to helping me, this will help somebody else hoping to autoX their Civic on the cheap. I'll update with impressions of each change as I go.

At present, non-factory equipment is as follows:
K&N Air Filter
Falken Ziex 512 All-Season tires

Modifications in progress:
Koni Sport shocks

Future mods sitting in my garage:
94-95(?)Acura Integra "Fat Five" wheels
Kumho V710 lightly used R-compound tires
Hawk HP+ brake pads

Obviously, I'm new at all this, so any helpful hints or advice are welcome from all. If you happen to be newer than me (doubtful) feel free to ask questions as well.

I will update with pics when I get home tonight.


Edited by TinmanEM1 (04/18/07 01:44 PM)
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#1272655 - 04/18/07 01:36 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 532
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Heading into a busy weekend consisting of the Atlanta Region SCCA Novice School and our Points #3 event, I am scrambling to get my Konis put together in time.

Thanks to 8 years of Wisconsin winters, my suspension bolts have been extremely uncooperative. After stripping the head of a hex-bolt, it was decided that the best course of action would be to hand the suspension pieces, now removed from the car, to a mechanic friend and let him go to work with air tools and the other assorted tools that make this sort of work easy. He disassembled the shock/spring assemblies and reassembled the springs and Konis, and by the look of what's left of the threading on my right rear shock, I'd have never gotten it apart on my own.

With all of this assembled, I was prepared for a simple hour or so of work to get everything put back together and finally get the car back out of the garage. Unfortunately, it was not to be. During the installation, the bolt, and corresponding nut (which is tack-welded to the bottom of the Koni shock) became stripped. I've now got to get a new $13 bolt from Honda, and get the nut removed from the shock and replaced with a new one. I've now got 3 corners back together on the car, and a project that was supposed to be finished last Thursday is creeping dangerously close to this weekend, and the car's debut in the HS class, following a brief stint in the Novice class.
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#1274540 - 04/18/07 09:04 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 532
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Ok, one retapped nut and a new bolt later, everything is back together. Handling, and acceleration feel much crisper now, and my brakes feel worse than they did before. The reduction in dive has definitely exposed a weakness there. New stock rotors and the Hawk pads, as well as a flush and very thorough bleed of the brake lines will be the next step, and probably should have come before the Konis, in hindsight.
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#1274711 - 04/18/07 09:51 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
skierd Offline
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Registered: 08/21/01
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Sounds like a good setup! Now we just need to tighten the nut behind the wheel. ;\)
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#1274982 - 04/18/07 10:56 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: skierd]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 532
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Yup! Hopefully the novice school on Saturday will go a long way toward that end.
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#1276356 - 04/19/07 12:02 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/07
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Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Would it be possible for the original shifter bushings to have degraded over the 8-year life of the car? Yesterday it struck me that the shifter feels much sloppier than I recall it being when new.
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#1278599 - 04/19/07 11:11 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
CivicRacerExR Offline
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Probably. wouldn't hurt to replace them. Shifter bushings are like $30.
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#1282865 - 04/21/07 06:17 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: CivicRacerExR]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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The nut behind the wheel got a bit tighter today! Today's ARSCCA novice school was extremely valuable, and I ironed out a bunch of the basic problems in my driving. Between the morning session and the afternoon, I cut over 6 seconds off my times, and got much more consistent. I still have a few fundamentals to work on, but I feel like I'm going to be a much faster driver after today. 20+ runs in one day definitely helped the learning curve.
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#1286568 - 04/23/07 10:24 AM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Well, after all that practice on Saturday, I still got smoked by over 7 seconds on Sunday by an '86 CRX. I can't feel too bad, though. The guy took 8th in PAX, beating out most of our Pro class drivers, and could have won STS and taken 2nd in STS2 with his time. R-compounds will get me a couple seconds closer, hopefully, but that still leaves a 5-second gap!

Well, it's going to be an educational season, and a good challenge chasing the guys at the top of HS. They're crazy-fast.
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#1287833 - 04/23/07 03:45 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
CivicRacerExR Offline
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Registered: 11/05/99
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Loc: Landisville, PA, USA
DOT R tires are usually 2-4 seconds faster than a typical street tire. Of course other factors apply, but figure the 86 CRX is about 500-700lbs lighter than your 99-00 Civic Si. And the CRX wheels are only 14x.5.5", which are thinner than the 15x6" wheels on the 6th Gen Si, but not by much.

They best thing to do would be to get 205/50x15" or 225/45x15" tires on those stock rims.
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#1288323 - 04/23/07 05:29 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: CivicRacerExR]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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I've got 205/50-15s and a set of '95 Integra GS-R wheels waiting for me to mount them up. I'm just waiting right now. I'm going to kill my all-seasons before I go to an R-compound. Everyone I've talked to (except for one person) has recommended learning on street tires first, then going to R's, so I'm waiting patiently for now. I picked these ones up for next to nothing, but once I start buying new ones, I think I'm going to 225s.
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#1295398 - 04/25/07 11:13 AM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/07
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Loc: Alpharetta, GA
I'm thinking of replacing the bushings on my sway bars as well as the shifter now. A guy told me that Moog makes rear sway bar bushings that are rubber, but harder than stock, that are legal for stock class. Is this true? It sounds pretty borderline to me. What are everyone's thoughts on PU bushings in front?

Edited by TinmanEM1 (04/25/07 11:16 AM)
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#1298377 - 04/25/07 11:35 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
CivicRacerExR Offline
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Registered: 11/05/99
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Loc: Landisville, PA, USA
Not legal. If someone knows their stuff and protests you you cannot win and it's somewhat embarrassing to be protested at an autocross. You can only replace with stock components.

Edited by CivicRacerExR (04/26/07 10:57 AM)
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#1298857 - 04/26/07 07:14 AM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: CivicRacerExR]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/07
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Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. They are advertised as "High Quality Original Equipment Replacements" but I'm thinking a bit too high quality. I may just go with new OEM bushings. Can't hurt. But what about polyurethane in the front? I know it's legal to make changes to the front sway bar, but I've heard a lot of opinions in both directions: Less FSB gives the front end more bite AND More FSB reduces body roll enough to make up for the reduction in grip. I can see where both might make sense, so it's hard to know what to go with.
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#1299397 - 04/26/07 10:59 AM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
CivicRacerExR Offline
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Registered: 11/05/99
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Pick up a copy of Sports Car magazine (printed by the SCCA). This month's issue goes over setting up a car for stock class. They picked 3-4 drivers who have won Nationals several times and get their opinion especially on FSBs. I believe they all said get a front sway bar especially in stock class because it will keep the front tires planted when cornering. Yes it might cause more understeer, but you can adjust that with tire pressure and adjusting shock rebound/compression.
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#1299889 - 04/26/07 01:01 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: CivicRacerExR]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Thanks, I will try to find that. This was the way I was leaning.
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#1300237 - 04/26/07 02:42 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
Buzzbomb Offline
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Registered: 11/02/01
Posts: 1196
Loc: Bryan, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: TinmanEM1

Modifications in progress:
Koni Sport shocks


Aren't shocks illegal for stock class? I'm just asking because this stuff is still very new to me.

I'm running my 99' Civic Sedan in HS in my area. (NW Ohio)

Let me tell you, I wish I was running a Si. Every event I run I am the lowest horsepower car there with the worst tires. (185/60/14)

Best I've ever placed was 4th out of 12.

If my Si wasn't turbo'd, I'd run it in STS. I really don't want to run SM.


Edited by Buzzbomb (04/26/07 02:43 PM)
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#1300699 - 04/26/07 04:36 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: Buzzbomb]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/07
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Nope. Shocks are one of the few things we're allowed in stock.
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#1301582 - 04/26/07 09:44 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: Buzzbomb]
CivicRacerExR Offline
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Registered: 11/05/99
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Loc: Landisville, PA, USA
Originally Posted By: Buzzbomb
I'm running my 99' Civic Sedan in HS in my area. (NW Ohio)

Let me tell you, I wish I was running a Si. Every event I run I am the lowest horsepower car there with the worst tires. (185/60/14)

Best I've ever placed was 4th out of 12.

If my Si wasn't turbo'd, I'd run it in STS. I really don't want to run SM.


Bah. Doesn't matter how much hp you have, it's the driver that makes the car fast. My 91 Civic Si with 100hp on Azenis would usually place one of the fastest times of the day. I would on occassion beat all the cars in SM too on their raw times (and of course PAX too). Did you read my story about my EF Si showing up to a Porsche event? Cars there had 400+ hp and I was still within 1/10th of a second of the fastest Porsche.

But of course running 185/60x14" stock tires in HS is not going to win you any fast times, til you throw some DOT R tires on the car.
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#1302772 - 04/27/07 10:30 AM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: CivicRacerExR]
Buzzbomb Offline
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Registered: 11/02/01
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Loc: Bryan, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: CivicRacerExR

Bah. Doesn't matter how much hp you have, it's the driver that makes the car fast. My 91 Civic Si with 100hp on Azenis would usually place one of the fastest times of the day. I would on occassion beat all the cars in SM too on their raw times (and of course PAX too). Did you read my story about my EF Si showing up to a Porsche event? Cars there had 400+ hp and I was still within 1/10th of a second of the fastest Porsche.

But of course running 185/60x14" stock tires in HS is not going to win you any fast times, til you throw some DOT R tires on the car.


You are correct, though being able to accelerate from the start and during longer stretches on bigger courses would help. Tires would definitely help out.

That brings up a question about tires. What are the rules regarding tire width comparded to the stock tires? How much wider than stock can you go? I wanted to buy a set of 615's but I thought going wider was illegal?


Edited by Buzzbomb (04/27/07 10:34 AM)
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#1304511 - 04/27/07 06:56 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: Buzzbomb]
CivicRacerExR Offline
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Registered: 11/05/99
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You can go as wide as you can on stock wheels. I had 225/45x15" tires on stock 15x6" wheels. While not the best setup since 225 wide tires like 7.5-8" wheels they fit on those wheels.

I had 205s on my 14x5.5" wheels back in the day.

Other thing you have to be careful of is if the tire is too wide you will start rubbing on components and fenders.
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#1310426 - 04/30/07 10:57 AM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: CivicRacerExR]
Buzzbomb Offline
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I see, so you can leagally fit as wide as possible tire you can on a stock rim. That's good to know. I'll have to research to see if the 14" 615's work on Honda steelies.

Now it would be illegal to use, let's say, stock Si wheels with widest possible tires?
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#1313908 - 04/30/07 05:28 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: Buzzbomb]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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The only 14" 615s are 195/60-14s, which are going to be taller than the stock tires, and give you worse gearing for auto-x. You'd be better off finding a set of used R-compounds if you can. Just check around on some autocross forums. I picked up 6 Kumho V710s with plenty of life left on them for $150 and a set of Fat Fives to mount them on for another $100.

Yes, Si wheels would be illegal. You can use any size that was a FACTORY option on your car, which, as I remember, is only the ones you've got.
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#1316261 - 05/01/07 11:42 AM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/07
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Loc: Alpharetta, GA
I got the Fives painted over the weekend, and will hopefully get the V710s mounted this week.






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#1316270 - 05/01/07 11:43 AM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/07
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Loc: Alpharetta, GA
I will be getting an alignment done at the same time I get the tires mounted, most likely. Any suggestions? I'm obviously getting all of the negative camber I possibly can, but what about toe?
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#1318491 - 05/01/07 08:47 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
skierd Offline
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I've always set the toe to 0 on all 4 corners. Many people advocate setting the front toe out a little, 1/8" to 1/4" total, for better turn-in characteristics but I've never felt like compromising tire life to do so. If the car's too tail happy for you at 0 toe rear, try a little toe-in. If its too planted, try a little toe-out. Alignments are relatively cheap so try out different settings.
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#1319832 - 05/02/07 07:19 AM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: skierd]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/07
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Loc: Alpharetta, GA
I've got a mechanic friend doing it, so it's cheap as free. Maybe we'll do a few different settings and mark the bolts with a paint pen or something so I can just make the adjustments myself in a few minutes.
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#1428262 - 05/13/07 08:27 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/07
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Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Well, the alignment didn't turn out quite as well as I had hoped. Apparently 8 years of salt and snow on WI roads is not good for suspension bolts. We couldn't move anything, so the alignment is delayed until I can hit them with some PB Blaster for a little while.
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#1431674 - 05/14/07 11:09 AM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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ARSCCA Pts event #4 was Saturday. Came in a solid 4th out of 4 in HS, still on all-season tires. Still, getting closer to the top drivers, only 5 seconds off of first place this time. Even more useful to me, though, is that I used a co-driver at this event. He has been autocrossing a FWD car off and on for a few years now, and was 1.4 seconds faster than me. While it's a bit depressing getting beaten in your own car, it's also something more tangible for me to take away, rather than comparing my times to the times of other cars on R-comps and playing the "what if" game. No more what-ifs, though, as Pts #5 will be on my V710s. I think I might be ready for them. I feel as though I'm driving smoothly, without too much complaint from the tires, but not necessarily as aggressively as I should. I'm hoping the move to R-comps will be great for me, and hopefully will get me to attack the course a bit more.

*Edit: It's also noteworthy that I haven't hit a cone yet, in four events. No cones, as good as it sounds, means I'm giving the cones a bit too much room.


Edited by TinmanEM1 (05/14/07 11:16 AM)
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#1434646 - 05/14/07 09:27 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
skierd Offline
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The biggest thing for me to get over when I started, and it sounds like it might be for you as well since you haven't hit a cone yet, is fear of hurting the car and the fear of losing control. If your club has instructors (are you running Atlanta region? if so you should) get one of them to drive your car and get ready for an eye opening!

Unchecked aggression isnt going to help, but you've got to get up on the car and not be afraid to toss it around a little until it bites, then you know where the limit is at least. The limits of the V710's are going to be MUCH higher than your street tires, its going to take a few dozen runs for you to find their edge I think, at least it did for me when I switched from used 205/60/13 A-048R's to 225/50/13 Hoosiers on my Accent in the 2005 season. But to find the edge, you've got to be willing to push the car harder. So next time, open it up a litte: get on the gas earlier, try to turn in a little later, use the brakes less and carry more speed and learn to trust the tires.
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#1442823 - 05/16/07 09:34 AM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: skierd]
TinmanEM1 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/07
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Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Yeah, at the Novice school I had a guy who runs an Integra Type R at nationals in my car with me and he took a handful of runs behind the wheel. He was way faster than any of my times before each run he took, but then after he ran, I'd beat his time in the next run or two. It's interesting what you learn just from riding in your own car while it's driven very fast.

Hopefully, in the next couple of events I'll be able to get some time-only runs with an instructor riding along, and probably give him one of them (probably the second or third, of four) to show me how it should be done.
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#1646695 - 07/15/07 03:06 AM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: TinmanEM1]
Stock1993CivicSi Offline
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Kinda jumping in late on this one, but here goes!!!

We actually MET at the AR Novice School. I drive the red EG Si. Nice thread and a lot of great questions and input!

Here's my 2 cents...

OEM CRX Si wheels are 14x5...not 5.5". \:\)

You seem to be on the right track and well on your way to being an HS leader. You're asking questions, doing the Novice School thing, and getting ride-alongs. Good Job!

I'd go with zero toe all the way around for now...when you get the alignment done. Make SURE they let the car settle, then RECHECK the alignment. I ran last year with toe IN cuz this wasn't done. \:\( Just FYI, I'm running 1/16th toe out at all corners, but am going to 1/8th F and zero rear. If the car hasn't been aligned in a while, just getting it to true zero will likely improve it.

The Konis on my car made a HOOGE difference. I ran them full firm @ all corners for part of this season. At another Novice School (Triad SCC), a Nationals Winner convinced me to go full soft up front. I did and picked up over a second! Of course, he picked up TWO! If you aren't running this already, the car will feel less precise and skaty. However, once you get used to it, it IS faster.

As for the r-comps...Hmmm. Tough call. They WILL be faster. Even if they're heat-cycled to death (like the first used set I had!), the sidewalls are stiffer. They just may not grip well until your final runs. Try them and see. When you go with new r-comps, after you scuff them, you will be aMAZED.

Remember the new set of V710's I brought to scuff??? Half way through the season and they STILL seem to get better. Awesome tires.

My BEST advice? Keep doing what you're doing...asking questions. You're in a GREAT Region with TONS of National-level talent. If you haven't already, check out their Driver Development Program.

Next season, try to make as many schools as you can with surrounding Regions and other clubs.

I did AR's school last year, and made about 15 events. I stayed BONE STOCK until the last few events when I changed to those worn out Victoracers. My results were pretty darned close to yours.

This year, I did 4 schools, including Evo Phase One. From March to May, including hot events,I logged about 150 runs. MOST of these were QUALITY seat time (w/Nationals-level instructors at the 4 schools).

The result? 5 wins, best PAX finish is 4th, leading points in 1 series, 2nd in 3 others, blah blah blah. Short answer is I got a LOT faster. And I know I STILL have room to improve!!!

Anyway, sorry to be so long winded. Good to see you're doing well and great to see someone I actually know in person!

PS You CAN upgrade FSB bushings in Stock and they WILL make a difference! ;\)

OH!!! Central Carolinas Region (CCR) has formed an new Chapter based in the Greenville/Spartanburg/Anderson area! We'll have to get some of you AR Hotshoes to drop by!

todd



Edited by Stock1993CivicSi (07/15/07 03:19 AM)
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Remember..."Civic" spelled backwards is "civiC"

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#1646700 - 07/15/07 03:15 AM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: Stock1993CivicSi]
Stock1993CivicSi Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 109
Loc: Seneca, SC
Wheels look great, too!
_________________________


Remember..."Civic" spelled backwards is "civiC"

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#1652905 - 07/17/07 12:38 AM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: Stock1993CivicSi]
Stock1993CivicSi Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 109
Loc: Seneca, SC
So, did you go with the r-comps? How'd they feel? What else have you done to the car?
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Remember..."Civic" spelled backwards is "civiC"

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#2064193 - 11/24/07 07:09 PM Re: My HS '99 Civic Si Build [Re: Stock1993CivicSi]
TinmanEM1 Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 532
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
My wife and I are expecting a baby boy in January. This car is now for sale.
http://forums.clubsi.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2064165

Next year, I'm co-driving a friend's 2006 MX-5 in CSP. I've driven it once for some time-only runs, and it's a lot of fun, and not even close to well prepped. He was 4-5 seconds off the top drivers in the region in his first year of autocross on street tires with sway bars, Eibach springs and Konis, and a intake, header and exhaust. We should be pushing the top of the class with some real springs and R-compounds.
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1999 EBP Civic Si - Autocross slut
2007 Chevy Avalanche

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