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#109884 - 08/08/05 11:57 PM My dyno results, all motor b16
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
Ok, tomorrow I'm heading over to Shawn Church's to get my car dynoed again. For those of u who don't know or can't remember, here is my previous setup.

USDM B16 @ ~10.8:1 CR with;

Skunk2 Stage1 Cams & Cam Gears
Alaniz Street Master Head Work
Omnipower valvesprings, retainers, & valves
Mugen headgasket
Apex N1 exhaust
Password Carbon Fiber Intake (J's style)
DC 4-2-1 header
Powercore race cat (resonator basically)
ITR throttle body
Skunk2 Intake Manifold
Hondata IM gasket
NGK laser platinum plugs
Hondata s200

That combo yeilded me 178whp, 120wtq.

So now my new mods are;

RMF Narrow Header (replaces dc 4-2-1)
SMSP 300 cell spiral body cat (replaces resonator style test pipe)
Rocket Modified Autolight Spark Plugs (replaces NGK platinums)
AEM ITR cold air intake (replaces j's style intake)

All these are on now except the aem intake.
I'll be doing a dyno fully tuning it with the j's intake to show the gains from basically the rmf header.
Then I'll put on the aem intake & have it fully tuned so that u can see the gain (or loss) from the aem intake.

Hopefully this should help a lot of u out & hopefully I'll be in the 190's when its all done.
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

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#109885 - 08/09/05 12:35 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
jwyoung Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Ca, USA
wow.. good luck man... iono about 190 though... hehe... what time are you going? since i don't have work.. i'd like to go if you don't mind...
_________________________
00' E95P Si 178whp, 122tq on 89 octane - B16 all motor

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#109886 - 08/09/05 12:37 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
Thats what I'm hoping for. My appointment's at 10am. Ur welcome to come watch.
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

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#109887 - 08/09/05 12:45 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
jwyoung Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Ca, USA
sweet.. i'll be there
_________________________
00' E95P Si 178whp, 122tq on 89 octane - B16 all motor

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#109888 - 08/09/05 01:24 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
alright, c u then

-Steve
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

Top
#109889 - 08/09/05 09:35 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
cruzersi99 Offline
Post Master


Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 2513
Good luck!
_________________________
186 whp - Church Automotive (Dynapack)
189 whp - Zero Factory (Bosch)

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#109890 - 08/09/05 10:36 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
I think the header alone will get you close to the 190whp. GL.
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#109891 - 08/09/05 04:25 PM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
Well, the results are in. Lets just say that I'm not in a great mood right now.

But anyways, thanks jeff (jwyoung) for coming by. Ur car pulls nice, too bad there was to much dam traffic. I'll let u know next time I'm heading up to LACR if u want to make the trip.
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

Top
#109892 - 08/09/05 04:47 PM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
Ok, here they are.



The Green line is with my original mods (DC, test pipe, J's), 178hp.
The Red line is with the RMF header & SMSP Cat, & J's intake 178hp.
The Blue line is the the RMF header & smsp cat & aem itr intake, 181.5hp.

So basically the aem intake was the only worth while thing that I changed. It gained power pretty much everywhere over the J's intake (blue vs red).

Now the RMF really dissapointed me. I gained nothing out of it, all it did for me vs my dc header was lose midrange (green vs red). Now to be fair i did use a cat with the rmf header, but it is supsosed to be a very high flowing cat (better then carsound). The DC header I had on before was the 4-2-1 w/ a 2.25" collector, the RMF has a 2.5" collector. Also its not like the DC had a huge advantage cuz it had no cat, because I used an extra resonator in place of a straight test pipe for the dc header. & yes the resonaor will still flow better then a high flow cat, but it doesn't flow as good as say a test pipe. So basically I paid $1000 for the header & cat to basically lose midrange & be a little nicer to the enviornment. That sucks. I had very high hopes for this header judging it from the header test. But i guess that goes to show that every motor responds differently to mods.

Also u can see that the rmf & cat lost me torque everywhere. Once i put on the aem intake i was able to gain most of it back, however it shifted the powerband up to higher rpms. Torque used to peak at 6000rpms, now its at 7500rpms.

Now that is all done I can say that my car feels like it pulls a little harder up top, however I do really feel all the power I lost from ~5550-6800. Hopefully I'll be a little quicker in the 1/4 mile now, but I don't know.
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

Top
#109893 - 08/09/05 04:56 PM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
I too, am disappointed with the header, was it made specifically for a 1.6L engine? I was expecting at least a 5whp gain over the DC header. In all respect though, I think your peak whp is really impressive, and you shouldn't feel bad cause those are good numbers for a B16. I mean, look at Joe's dyno and you'll feel way better
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#109894 - 08/09/05 05:05 PM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
I spoke with randy about the header. He said it'd do great on any b-series from 1.6-1.9L. Shit, in the header test on a basically stock itr the rmf header put down 12hp over the jdm dc, & I have the usdm dc which is even worse. So I figured u take that into accout & the fact that I'm using a cat & I'm a b16, I thought I'd get around 5hp out of it.

I didn't think I'd lose that much midrange though. Thankfully I got the aem intake with saved me some midrange & got some peak.
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

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#109895 - 08/09/05 05:17 PM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
#Tuna No Crust Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 4631
Loc: 3 lights ahead of you (FL)
cool, props on the run.

i guess i ll forget about changing my AEM CAI for that password carbon fiber intake.
_________________________
Your beginnings will seem humble, so prosperous will your future be......

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#109896 - 08/09/05 06:20 PM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
jwyoung Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Ca, USA
wow that was pretty quick posting...

Like you said steve, you're giving up some gains, probably 5whp, to give back to the environment, you should feel good about that.. kidding aside.. that cat is new so give it a beating and it'll let up a little. Those were some good runs. I felt as though you could have taken me though in the end. You're peaking wayyyy higher than i do, but i did feel as though i could take your midrange. I guess that's what my FD does for me...

Yah, hit me up, we'll go to LACR and get road chips all over our bumper..'

Jeff



Thank God for the ITR CAI.. lol
_________________________
00' E95P Si 178whp, 122tq on 89 octane - B16 all motor

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#109897 - 08/09/05 06:40 PM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
yea, u were owning me at the start but then I started to pull up on u when i got higher in the rpms.

Ur final drive makes it weird. U were shifting to 4th way before i needed to.
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

Top
#109898 - 08/09/05 07:10 PM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
ChaseNewman99Si Offline
Member


Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 868
Loc: Ga
Yikes! Not exactly what I was expecting either. My setup for my stock block will be similiar to yours except I'll be using a test pipe and a different I/E. Good numbers still for a B16.
_________________________

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#109899 - 08/09/05 07:23 PM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
Yea, good luck to u. What type of header are u replacing with the rmf? Hopefully the test pipe works better for u then a cat.
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

Top
#109900 - 08/09/05 08:33 PM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
ChaseNewman99Si Offline
Member


Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 868
Loc: Ga
I'll be replacing an OE CTR header w/ a 2.5" collector and I'm already using the testpipe. I'll get a baseline run with each header when the time comes and see how it turns out.
_________________________

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#109901 - 08/09/05 09:12 PM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
cool
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

Top
#109902 - 08/09/05 11:51 PM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
jwyoung Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Ca, USA
yah, i do have to shift a lot sooner... i wonder if it actually pays off though
_________________________
00' E95P Si 178whp, 122tq on 89 octane - B16 all motor

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#109903 - 08/10/05 12:16 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
Sounds like you guys had a run, so who won? I'll be on the market soon for intake and header, I think I will just go with a plain JDM DC. Sold the V2, time to get a SRI of some sort. I still don't understand the RMF header though. . .I guess each engine has its preference.
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#109904 - 08/10/05 12:43 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
cruzersi99 Offline
Post Master


Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 2513
Your tuning with Hondata right?

Numbers look interesting.

What exhaust are you running? Intake Manifold? Did Shawn say anything about needing more air?

By looking at the chart it looks like that header is making some good power from 6-8k. I'm thinking combining your RMFsetup with a Big Bore tapered throttle body, and a short ram intake may accentuate the header and exhaust set-up better. I know I'm one of the few on this next statement, but an ITR Manifold will probably help out too from 6-8k.

The header shifted your powerband up a few thousand RPMs. but in reality when your on throttle and going through the gears hard, your car won't see 5-6k, the gain between 6-8k far out weighs your loses from 6-7.

Also. WHO WON? and to what speed?


(Damn this is a lot of questions)

If you do hit up LACR, let me know. Me and my buddies are always done to roll.
_________________________
186 whp - Church Automotive (Dynapack)
189 whp - Zero Factory (Bosch)

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#109905 - 08/10/05 12:45 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
jwyoung Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Ca, USA
hey b6ixteen.... we never raced off the dig.. basically from 60 -80 i took him and then from there he's whoopin me... he's got some serious top end...

you might want to rethink the SRI.... take a look again at the charts.. the only time steve (strsi) made power was when he changed out his J's racing type intake and slapped on his ITR CAI.. food for thought
_________________________
00' E95P Si 178whp, 122tq on 89 octane - B16 all motor

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#109906 - 08/10/05 12:49 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
cruzersi99 Offline
Post Master


Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 2513
Quote:

hey b6ixteen.... we never raced off the dig.. basically from 60 -80 i took him and then from there he's whoopin me... he's got some serious top end...

you might want to rethink the SRI.... take a look again at the charts.. the only time steve (strsi) made power was when he changed out his J's racing type intake and slapped on his ITR CAI.. food for thought




J's isn't your typical short ram though. The change in size creates different velocities. Just a thought though.

Physics alone dictates that the Short Ram will work better in the higher RPMs.

If you guys ever want to shoot the chit, hit me up on AIM: cruzersi99


Edited by cruzersi99 (08/10/05 12:50 AM)
_________________________
186 whp - Church Automotive (Dynapack)
189 whp - Zero Factory (Bosch)

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#109907 - 08/10/05 12:57 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
jwyoung Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Ca, USA
take another look at the charts guys..

BLUE line (ITR cai)is the only line that made serious power everywhere..
RED line, which was the RMF w/ new cat and J's SRI, pretty much did nothing.. even lost mid range power 5500-7000.


Quote:

Your tuning with Hondata right?




He is.. s200

Quote:

What exhaust are you running? Intake Manifold? Did Shawn say anything about needing more air?




apex N1, skunk IM... air?? iono

Quote:

ITR Manifold will probably help out too from 6-8k.




skunk made copied the ITR IM right? so, in theory, yah he does already

Quote:

Also. WHO WON? and to what speed?




i'd ask steve... like said above.. i can take off faster, but he'll catch up and zoooom by me

Quote:


If you do hit up LACR, let me know. Me and my buddies are always done to roll.





fun fun let's go
_________________________
00' E95P Si 178whp, 122tq on 89 octane - B16 all motor

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#109908 - 08/10/05 01:09 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
b6ixteen Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
I don't know about the CAI anymore, its the reason my B16 is down right now. However, I am going to try ITBs but not until I get some cams. I heard of using throttle bodies off of a bike couple months ago and just recently found a thread on HT about it. Yeah I see that the SRI did nothing but different mods react differently on different motors, cause of size and whathaveyou. I want to see the 1/4 mile times guys, hit up the track this weekend.
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#109909 - 08/10/05 01:13 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
cruzersi99 Offline
Post Master


Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 2513
Okay.
So he's got the skunk2 Intake manifold so ixnay that thought. I understand that the AEM made more power, but the J's is a varied diameter intake. It performs very different than a straight 3" short ram. Intakes in general are wierd items. Results vary by setup and interestingly enough they seem to vary by dyno and tuner as well. Some big motor cars have seen J's outperfrom AEM, others have had poor results with the J's.

Shawn is a big AEM advocate for street cars. On his dyno the AEM always does well. Oshima from Zero factory, who runs a bosch, advocates the ICEMAN. On his dyno the ICEMAN put out 2 whp more than both the icebox and AEM throughout the whole RPM range. SGT (Steve Sakai) advocates short rams on most honda's. On his dyno he finds that the Short ram is better.

Shawn is a great tuner. I reccommend almost everyone to him, but there is a posibility that his tuning style fits AEM intakes well. I guess there are just a lot of variables.

I don't know what the N1 piping diameter is off hand, but going from 2.5 to say 60mm or whatever the size (2.38) also may do some wierd things.

Regarding your race. He caught up to you because at that speed him being in 3rd allows him to have the gearing advantage until he shifts into 4th, and gets into it for a while, at this point you will have the advantage until you hit 5th. It will be interesting to see how it plays out at in a 1320 race.
_________________________
186 whp - Church Automotive (Dynapack)
189 whp - Zero Factory (Bosch)

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#109910 - 08/10/05 01:45 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
jwyoung Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Ca, USA
HEHEH... you heard steve??? it will be interesting on the 1/4 mile.. you are right about that though.. around 80 i was already in 4th climbing the rpms.. while he was in third reaching his peak..... i don't want to make this a pissing contest.. i'm sure we're both really happy with our setups.. well.. maybe not the rmf ..
_________________________
00' E95P Si 178whp, 122tq on 89 octane - B16 all motor

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#109911 - 08/10/05 01:53 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
ok let me try & answer all these questions, if i miss one let me know.

Tuned with hondata s200. I have the s2 IM, apex n1 exhaust (60mm), itr tb.

Actually the only reason the power curve shifted upwards was because of a change in the cam gears tuning. Before he did that it was horrible, I think I maxed out at 102tq before he changed the cam gears settings.

Shawn said it must be the cat that is causing the loss. Or the header is too much for a b16. Cuz the thing is, the header should flow better then the dc, so that means my first run today should have been leaner then it was before with the dc. However this wasn't the case, it actually got very rich (~11.5:1 a/f ratio) from around 5000-6500 on my first run. this would indicate the the rmf & cat are flowing way less then the dc & race cat.

I mean if i wouldn't have bought the aem intake at the last minute, then I would have left church's today with the dyno that shows less midrange & equal peak, $1000 later, that sucks.

Im thinking i should be quicker in the 1/4 mile cuz if i run it close to my revlimit & then shift i'm put at around 6500-6800rpms. Thats pretty much the point where I'm now making more power then before, so it should be good in the quarter.

Another good thing that turned out today is that now I peak at 8100 & it holds pretty steady until 8800. Before today i didn't peak until 8600rpms.

I do feel it get laggy though in that midrange area where i lost power.

As for me & jeff, I'd say we started at about 55-60ish in third gear. He just jumped on me at the start. Pulled his rear bumper just ahead of my front. But then he was already shifting to 4th (due to his final drive) & i was still in third & in that area above 7000rpms where Im making lots of power now. So I started to pull pretty good on him & we were just about even when we had to cut it out cuz of traffic coming up. Props to jeff, very nice. Not that I'm like bragging about street racing or anything cuz I'm not to big on it, but hell we've both got strong new setups & had to compare them .

I'll let u guy know when i plan to go to lacr.
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

Top
#109912 - 08/10/05 02:01 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
ITB's are too wild for me. But for now on ur b20 get at least a 3" intake, short ram or cai is ur choice i guess. The AEM itr is the only 3" i know for sure.
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

Top
#109913 - 08/10/05 02:19 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
jwyoung Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Ca, USA
wonder what the 4th gear climb would have looked like...
_________________________
00' E95P Si 178whp, 122tq on 89 octane - B16 all motor

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#109914 - 08/10/05 02:29 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
strsi Offline
Post Master Jr


Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
only one way to find out
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16

1994 EG Hatch

2000 BMW 328ci

207 Forever- RIP

Top
#109915 - 08/10/05 02:41 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
kusan Offline
Newbie


Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 45
Loc: socal
strsi,
Good B16 numbers, seems your S2S1 setup is producing a good amount of higher rpm torque and power. midrange drop around 5-6 K? i've got a similar issue with my setup. are you planning any bottom end work? I was also considering that narrow type header or even the spark smsp knockoff at one time but too much $$$. good luck with you future mods......



MODS:
-Aem CAI
- Jdm ITR intake manifold
- Jdm ITR TB
- Hondata IM gasket
- BC 3+ cams/ camgears
- Skunk2 valvetrain
- no name S.S. ITR 4-1 header
- no name highflow cat
- RS-R ex mag cat back
- P28 ecu w/ hondata s100 tuned by Shawn Church

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#109916 - 08/10/05 02:44 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
kusan Offline
Newbie


Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 45
Loc: socal
shit sorry about the size of that graph......
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#109917 - 08/10/05 02:59 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
jwyoung Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Ca, USA
here i resized for yah



Edited by jwyoung (08/10/05 03:00 AM)
_________________________
00' E95P Si 178whp, 122tq on 89 octane - B16 all motor

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#109918 - 08/10/05 03:04 AM Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
kusan Offline
Newbie


Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 45
Loc: socal
thanks man
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