#109889 - 08/09/05 09:35 AM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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cruzersi99
Post Master
Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 2513
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Good luck!
_________________________
186 whp - Church Automotive (Dynapack) 189 whp - Zero Factory (Bosch) 
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#109892 - 08/09/05 04:47 PM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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strsi
Post Master Jr
Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
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Ok, here they are.
The Green line is with my original mods (DC, test pipe, J's), 178hp.
The Red line is with the RMF header & SMSP Cat, & J's intake 178hp.
The Blue line is the the RMF header & smsp cat & aem itr intake, 181.5hp.
So basically the aem intake was the only worth while thing that I changed. It gained power pretty much everywhere over the J's intake (blue vs red).
Now the RMF really dissapointed me. I gained nothing out of it, all it did for me vs my dc header was lose midrange (green vs red). Now to be fair i did use a cat with the rmf header, but it is supsosed to be a very high flowing cat (better then carsound). The DC header I had on before was the 4-2-1 w/ a 2.25" collector, the RMF has a 2.5" collector. Also its not like the DC had a huge advantage cuz it had no cat, because I used an extra resonator in place of a straight test pipe for the dc header. & yes the resonaor will still flow better then a high flow cat, but it doesn't flow as good as say a test pipe. So basically I paid $1000 for the header & cat to basically lose midrange & be a little nicer to the enviornment. That sucks. I had very high hopes for this header judging it from the header test. But i guess that goes to show that every motor responds differently to mods.
Also u can see that the rmf & cat lost me torque everywhere. Once i put on the aem intake i was able to gain most of it back, however it shifted the powerband up to higher rpms. Torque used to peak at 6000rpms, now its at 7500rpms.
Now that is all done I can say that my car feels like it pulls a little harder up top, however I do really feel all the power I lost from ~5550-6800. Hopefully I'll be a little quicker in the 1/4 mile now, but I don't know.
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16
1994 EG Hatch
2000 BMW 328ci
207 Forever- RIP
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#109893 - 08/09/05 04:56 PM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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b6ixteen
Post Master Jr
Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1846
Loc: Florida
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I too, am disappointed with the header, was it made specifically for a 1.6L engine? I was expecting at least a 5whp gain over the DC header. In all respect though, I think your peak whp is really impressive, and you shouldn't feel bad cause those are good numbers for a B16. I mean, look at Joe's dyno and you'll feel way better 
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#109896 - 08/09/05 06:20 PM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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jwyoung
Jr Member
Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Ca, USA
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wow that was pretty quick posting...
Like you said steve, you're giving up some gains, probably 5whp, to give back to the environment, you should feel good about that.. kidding aside.. that cat is new so give it a beating and it'll let up a little. Those were some good runs. I felt as though you could have taken me though in the end. You're peaking wayyyy higher than i do, but i did feel as though i could take your midrange. I guess that's what my FD does for me...
Yah, hit me up, we'll go to LACR and get road chips all over our bumper..'
Jeff
Thank God for the ITR CAI.. lol
_________________________
00' E95P Si
178whp, 122tq on 89 octane - B16 all motor
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#109904 - 08/10/05 12:43 AM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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cruzersi99
Post Master
Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 2513
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Your tuning with Hondata right?
Numbers look interesting.
What exhaust are you running? Intake Manifold? Did Shawn say anything about needing more air?
By looking at the chart it looks like that header is making some good power from 6-8k. I'm thinking combining your RMFsetup with a Big Bore tapered throttle body, and a short ram intake may accentuate the header and exhaust set-up better. I know I'm one of the few on this next statement, but an ITR Manifold will probably help out too from 6-8k.
The header shifted your powerband up a few thousand RPMs. but in reality when your on throttle and going through the gears hard, your car won't see 5-6k, the gain between 6-8k far out weighs your loses from 6-7.
Also. WHO WON? and to what speed?
(Damn this is a lot of questions)
If you do hit up LACR, let me know. Me and my buddies are always done to roll.
_________________________
186 whp - Church Automotive (Dynapack) 189 whp - Zero Factory (Bosch)
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#109906 - 08/10/05 12:49 AM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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cruzersi99
Post Master
Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 2513
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Quote:
hey b6ixteen.... we never raced off the dig.. basically from 60 -80 i took him and then from there he's whoopin me... he's got some serious top end... 
you might want to rethink the SRI.... take a look again at the charts.. the only time steve (strsi) made power was when he changed out his J's racing type intake and slapped on his ITR CAI.. food for thought
J's isn't your typical short ram though. The change in size creates different velocities. Just a thought though.
Physics alone dictates that the Short Ram will work better in the higher RPMs.
If you guys ever want to shoot the chit, hit me up on AIM: cruzersi99
Edited by cruzersi99 (08/10/05 12:50 AM)
_________________________
186 whp - Church Automotive (Dynapack) 189 whp - Zero Factory (Bosch)
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#109907 - 08/10/05 12:57 AM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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jwyoung
Jr Member
Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Ca, USA
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take another look at the charts guys..
BLUE line (ITR cai)is the only line that made serious power everywhere..
RED line, which was the RMF w/ new cat and J's SRI, pretty much did nothing.. even lost mid range power 5500-7000.
Quote:
Your tuning with Hondata right?
He is.. s200
Quote:
What exhaust are you running? Intake Manifold? Did Shawn say anything about needing more air?
apex N1, skunk IM... air?? iono
Quote:
ITR Manifold will probably help out too from 6-8k.
skunk made copied the ITR IM right? so, in theory, yah he does already
Quote:
Also. WHO WON? and to what speed?
i'd ask steve... like said above.. i can take off faster, but he'll catch up and zoooom by me
Quote:
If you do hit up LACR, let me know. Me and my buddies are always done to roll.
fun fun let's go
_________________________
00' E95P Si
178whp, 122tq on 89 octane - B16 all motor
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#109909 - 08/10/05 01:13 AM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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cruzersi99
Post Master
Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 2513
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Okay.
So he's got the skunk2 Intake manifold so ixnay that thought. I understand that the AEM made more power, but the J's is a varied diameter intake. It performs very different than a straight 3" short ram. Intakes in general are wierd items. Results vary by setup and interestingly enough they seem to vary by dyno and tuner as well. Some big motor cars have seen J's outperfrom AEM, others have had poor results with the J's.
Shawn is a big AEM advocate for street cars. On his dyno the AEM always does well. Oshima from Zero factory, who runs a bosch, advocates the ICEMAN. On his dyno the ICEMAN put out 2 whp more than both the icebox and AEM throughout the whole RPM range. SGT (Steve Sakai) advocates short rams on most honda's. On his dyno he finds that the Short ram is better.
Shawn is a great tuner. I reccommend almost everyone to him, but there is a posibility that his tuning style fits AEM intakes well. I guess there are just a lot of variables.
I don't know what the N1 piping diameter is off hand, but going from 2.5 to say 60mm or whatever the size (2.38) also may do some wierd things.
Regarding your race. He caught up to you because at that speed him being in 3rd allows him to have the gearing advantage until he shifts into 4th, and gets into it for a while, at this point you will have the advantage until you hit 5th. It will be interesting to see how it plays out at in a 1320 race.
_________________________
186 whp - Church Automotive (Dynapack) 189 whp - Zero Factory (Bosch)
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#109911 - 08/10/05 01:53 AM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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strsi
Post Master Jr
Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
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ok let me try & answer all these questions, if i miss one let me know.
Tuned with hondata s200. I have the s2 IM, apex n1 exhaust (60mm), itr tb.
Actually the only reason the power curve shifted upwards was because of a change in the cam gears tuning. Before he did that it was horrible, I think I maxed out at 102tq before he changed the cam gears settings.
Shawn said it must be the cat that is causing the loss. Or the header is too much for a b16. Cuz the thing is, the header should flow better then the dc, so that means my first run today should have been leaner then it was before with the dc. However this wasn't the case, it actually got very rich (~11.5:1 a/f ratio) from around 5000-6500 on my first run. this would indicate the the rmf & cat are flowing way less then the dc & race cat.
I mean if i wouldn't have bought the aem intake at the last minute, then I would have left church's today with the dyno that shows less midrange & equal peak, $1000 later, that sucks.
Im thinking i should be quicker in the 1/4 mile cuz if i run it close to my revlimit & then shift i'm put at around 6500-6800rpms. Thats pretty much the point where I'm now making more power then before, so it should be good in the quarter.
Another good thing that turned out today is that now I peak at 8100 & it holds pretty steady until 8800. Before today i didn't peak until 8600rpms.
I do feel it get laggy though in that midrange area where i lost power.
As for me & jeff, I'd say we started at about 55-60ish in third gear. He just jumped on me at the start. Pulled his rear bumper just ahead of my front. But then he was already shifting to 4th (due to his final drive) & i was still in third & in that area above 7000rpms where Im making lots of power now. So I started to pull pretty good on him & we were just about even when we had to cut it out cuz of traffic coming up. Props to jeff, very nice. Not that I'm like bragging about street racing or anything cuz I'm not to big on it, but hell we've both got strong new setups & had to compare them  .
I'll let u guy know when i plan to go to lacr.
_________________________
2000 EBP Si 181.5whp, 119wtq- All Motor B16
1994 EG Hatch
2000 BMW 328ci
207 Forever- RIP
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#109915 - 08/10/05 02:41 AM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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kusan
Newbie
Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 45
Loc: socal
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strsi,
Good B16 numbers, seems your S2S1 setup is producing a good amount of higher rpm torque and power. midrange drop around 5-6 K? i've got a similar issue with my setup. are you planning any bottom end work? I was also considering that narrow type header or even the spark smsp knockoff at one time but too much $$$. good luck with you future mods......
MODS:
-Aem CAI
- Jdm ITR intake manifold
- Jdm ITR TB
- Hondata IM gasket
- BC 3+ cams/ camgears
- Skunk2 valvetrain
- no name S.S. ITR 4-1 header
- no name highflow cat
- RS-R ex mag cat back
- P28 ecu w/ hondata s100 tuned by Shawn Church
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#109916 - 08/10/05 02:44 AM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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kusan
Newbie
Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 45
Loc: socal
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shit sorry about the size of that graph......
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#109918 - 08/10/05 03:04 AM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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kusan
Newbie
Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 45
Loc: socal
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thanks man
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#109923 - 08/11/05 03:46 PM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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B18c1vic
Post Master Sr
Registered: 12/21/99
Posts: 3151
Loc: Lomita, California. USA
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it is possible to go to big on a header.. exhaust velocity can slow down if the pipes are too big for the motor. But it just could be that you need a bit more work to take advantage of the larger diamter header.
I've always liked my old DC header (4-2-1). it offers very good "all around" performance, and doesn't sacrifice low end like some big collector 4-1 headers do. Its a very good daily driver header.
I also had a jdm ITR 4-1 header I put on my last car (B18C1), and the losses below 5000 rpm were very noticable. top end gains were pretty good though, so its a trade off. For a DD, I'd much rather have a DC 4-2-1 header, as accelleration was much better through the midrange (and cruising on the freeway too).
And on the dynojet, a catco high flow cat showed a loss of ~4 horsepower through a 2.25" exhaust, so it wasn't that much.
but in the end, each car is a bit different, so it can take a while to figure out exactly which combination works best for your setup.
Good luck.
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#109924 - 08/15/05 03:48 PM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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strsi
Post Master Jr
Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1789
Loc: CA
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#109925 - 08/15/05 03:49 PM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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JoeB16
Post Master Sr
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 5809
Loc: in front of my computer
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jezus that tq curve is all over the place
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#109926 - 08/15/05 03:57 PM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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cruzersi99
Post Master
Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 2513
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The TQ curve isn't as crazy as it looks. Shawn's dynapack scales things differently then most mustangs, or dynos. The scale is very tight. Change in 1-2 ft.lbs looks huge, even though it isn't. If you widen it out the RPM range out (X axis) to match your typical sheet it would flatten.
_________________________
186 whp - Church Automotive (Dynapack) 189 whp - Zero Factory (Bosch)
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#109930 - 08/23/05 01:59 PM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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JoeB16
Post Master Sr
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 5809
Loc: in front of my computer
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i would have got pro1s but you cant argue with $300 for a set of new stage 2s
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#109931 - 09/02/05 06:03 PM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
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jdemoney23
Jr Poster
Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 131
Loc: burbank, ca
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so is that a thumbs down to the J's intake? was thinkin about getting one. i heard they have good throttle response... but hp wise its a no no?
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#9142365 - 09/27/17 05:14 AM
Re: My dyno results, all motor b16
[Re: kusan]
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lzm
Jr Poster
Registered: 06/01/17
Posts: 115
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