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So a few months ago, i ordered the ITBs for the Miata. Told myself "Self, you can't install these until the Neon's done." Well, through a strange convoluted series of events, I found myself not only with a weekend that I couldn't get buried on the Neon, but also didn't have much going on. So I decided to do the ITBs, Neon be damned. Figured it'd be a one day project, and I was close. Pulled the manifold last night, did the install of the unit and the piggyback ECU today. Need to sync them tomorrow night, but it fired up under it's own power a few times today. Before the manifold, the car dynoed at 132WHP. I'm really curious to see what it pulls now once I get the wideband hooked up tomorrow night and get it tuned, and out to the dyno. I know i really need to tidy/tuck my wiring, haven't gotten there yet. Only one pic that's decent, I threw a vid on youtube but it sucks so I won't link it here. I'm psyched. This sounds pissed. I can't wait to hear them in anger! It's been probably three years of waiting, planning, thinking, and finally action! Next up, compression bump and cams. Before: (RB intake, RB header, RB exhaust, "Exhintake" cam, no cat) After: (no more MAF, no more RB intake, add Fuji ITB, neglect to clean up wiring.) It's still a spaghetti incident, but that doesn't stop me being unreasonably proud. |
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No air filter? |
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I bet it is loud as hell. |
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132whp on stock compression and cams? sounds pretty strong, what mods does it have besides intake/exhaust. ITB looks and sound sweet but i´ve always wondered what is the real improvement in performance, excluding throttle response. Guess you´ll find out soon in this setup. |
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Originally Posted By: Nurburgring 132whp on stock compression and cams? sounds pretty strong, what mods does it have besides intake/exhaust. ITB looks and sound sweet but i´ve always wondered what is the real improvement in performance, excluding throttle response. Guess you´ll find out soon in this setup. His Miata registers pretty strongly on the butt-dyno (lol gay car) and I'll vouch that the exintake cam really woke up the top half of the powerband. The ITBs are hawt, but like he said they need to be sync'd and tuned; it runs pig rich right now and throttle tip-in wants to bog it to death. |
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exhintake? |
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Originally Posted By: g96nt exhintake? Stock exhaust cam redrilled to work on intake side. More lift and duration, I believe. |
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Rich almost nailed it. I'm running 2 exhaust cams. I cut the cam angle drive off the back of the cam, and redrilled the gear 197 degrees out of whack and dropped it in. Gave me about 25 extra degrees of duration, and an unspecified amount more lift (I can't seem to find good lift numbers online). I got about an extra 1k RPM of usable power out of it for the princely sum of 15.00 for an extra cam gear. |
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Originally Posted By: beerslurpy No air filter? Not yet. I'm ordering a set of Fuji throttle nets today; long term the plan is to get an ITG flange and filter over the velocity stacks. Nurburgring: That's about it, really. I/H/E and Exhintake. I guess now ITB/H/E/Exhintake, but you get the idea. I've got a ton of chassis items, but not much in the motor department. Stock compression, head's never been off. Pre-ITB dyno: |
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That sounds like fun! If I were to ever buy a Miata (lol ) I'd probably throw ITB's on it. That is if I could overcome my automotive ADD for more than 5 minutes... |
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132 is really strong for just a bolt-ons miata. That's about 20-30 hp above stock. Most people only get gains like that through rice math. Impressive. I never understood ITBs. They always seemed like a rice mod, at least on miatas. For over 1000 bucks you get 1/20th the power increase you would get from even a mild turbo setup for the same money. Not to mention the huge pain in the ass of getting them to work. Hey, wait a second, how are you going for high RPMs with hydraulic lifters? What are you planning for ECU, megasquirt? Also, are you doing the COP mod? |
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I'll go COP once I go MS. I can't figure out how to keep my tach with COP and stock ECU since 94/95 have the tach driver in the coil and since the plan is standalone sooner rather than later, I'd rather not reinvent the wheel just to get rid of it. As for not understanding ITBs, believe it or not, i'm with you. I just wanted something fun and unique and really do NOT want a 200+HP Miata. That's called an S2000, and I already have one. I love the sound and throttle response, and I learned a long time ago that a car doesn't have to be fast to be fun. I admit, a lot of it is audio rice, and some of it is that i like shiny bits. The other real driving motivation is that I already have one turbo project car, I don't need two bi-polar pains in my ass. I'm only going to the stock rev limit right now. In the near-to-middle term, the HLAs are gonna get fired like they were stealin' from the company. I just don't want to buy lifters w/o deciding what head i'm going to end up with long-term. I've been close to pulling the trigger on a 99 head for a while, and that'd get rid of my HLAs in and of itself. The Toda buckets have also been calling my name, but why buy them if i'd just change heads? |
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Oh! i see where your high RPM comment came from. I'm not going higher than the stock revlimiter, but instead of the power falling off at 6ish like stock, it holds strong to 7k now. |
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That must be the strongest I/H/E miata engine in the planet. Even if it´s an optimistic dyno, no way it could be off by that much. Congrats. I think you´re putting more to the ground that JRSC 1.6 guys The "cam mod" sounds interesting. I´ve been waiting since forever for a nice turbo cam, with so many miatas around there should really be more cam options for these engines. Are you racing that thing? |
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The COPs have a tach wire. You just wire them together and feed them into the tach output. It's been done multiple times on miataturbo.net. I'm currently waiting on my COPs and harnesses so I can start the car again. I finished my water pump swap and coolant reroute mods a few weeks ago. It turns out the new factory one had a leaking seal so that I redid the gaskets 3 times over the past year for basically no reason. I need to bring it up to boiling point to be sure, but I think I have tackled the problem for now. Also, if you are looking for a cheap race radiator, CSF Imports makes a GIGANTIC 57mm one for 300 bucks. I think radiatorexpress.com has them. It is really well put together from what I can tell- pressure formed Al end tanks and machine welds. They are a mostly OEM company that decided to make them for racers as well. The 99 head gets rid of the intake HLAs. Also, the 99 springs are only good for about 7500 rpms realistically. Markp can tell you the details but you basically have to swap out the bits between the valve and the cam. Also don't forget that the stock oil pump doesn't really like > 7500 rpms usage. There have been quite a few high power guys that have blown their engines by shattering the cast oil pump gears. I'm sure someone makes a forged unit, I just can't remember who. I'll go for moar boost before I go for more RPM. Right now my rev limit is 8000-something but I dont go beyond 7500. I just like to keep the fuel/ign/boost cut faggotry away from my powerband. I figure if racers from the 60s could drive without electro-nanny rev limiters, I can too. To be honest, the stock ignition isn't really cutting it beyond 7000 rpm. The COP should hopefully fix that. Guys have been running stock plug gap (50 percent more than normal) on 12-15 psi of boost. Hell, one guy with a half destroyed spark plug with a no electrode was getting it to fire cleanly. It looks like the stock miata dwell is a bit higher than toyota's but not high enough to overheat them. |
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Yeah, I keep hearing that from people! I don't get it either, but my roommate dynoed his truck on the same dyno the same day and his wasn't equally optimistic, so I dunno what's up. Hell, his was a hopes-and-dreams crusher, as a matter of fact. Heh. The cam mod's a trip, but it really woke the car up. Definately worth the little bit of effort it took, and the $$/hp ratio can't be beat. Racing? I wish! I do the occasional HPDE in it, but I haven't had time or money to take it out at all this year. Last run it got was Eddie driving it late last year at PIR, i think that was before the Exhintake, too. I'd like to get out for at least one lapping day this year, but the stars don't seem to be lining up right for that to happen. |
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Oh, if you can, put the filter as far away as possible from the ITBs. It pisses me off when people spend months of effort and thousands of dollars making their ITBs work and then putting a foam cap on the end that ruins the laminar flow into the trumpets. You want a big box around the throttles with a filter sealing it off. Ignore me if you already knew this stuff, which I suspect you do. |
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Originally Posted By: beerslurpy The COPs have a tach wire. You just wire them together and feed them into the tach output. It's been done multiple times on miataturbo.net. Also, if you are looking for a cheap race radiator, CSF Imports makes a GIGANTIC 57mm one for 300 bucks. The 99 head gets rid of the intake HLAs. Also, the 99 springs are only good for about 7500 rpms realistically. I'm sure someone makes a forged unit, I just can't remember who. Nice info on the COP, maybe i'll accelerate that time table! Don't need a radiator, I've already got a Ron Davis one in the car after I popped my endtanks last year at Thunderhill. That cost me a headgasket, a head and both cams. (ouch!) Good to know on the HLA front; I've always thought it replaced them ALL. Looks like the Toda shim/bucket is in my future. I figured the springs would be good for more than 75, but i can't say as I'm shocked. And FYI: MiataRoadster.com manufactures/distributes the billet OP gears. |
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I am grateful I pulled off the road when I started the car up and my temps instantly shot from 60 to 105C. The temperature gauge went to red just as I pulled into the gas station. I drove the car home from atlanta with a gallon jug of water in the passenger seat, refilling every couple of hours. No damage as far as I can tell. I lost the 97 head from crankwalk debris getting into the rear intake cam journal. |
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well if you ever came back to the Northwest, you could drive it! :P |
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itb's ftw. nice work. and Ill agree with that being the most powerful miata evAR |
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Matt, next time your in Rrev...kick John Reed in the balls for me will ya? Thanks. Then tell him I want my Omni motor and trans. Nice work on the car. I'll have to give you a call next time I'm up there. |
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Can i do it after I dyno? I'd like to do 2 dynos on the same one back-to-back for better comparitive sake... but i'm more than happy to deliver a nut-tap for you. Definately man, call anytime. |
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Do you know if they're doing another S2K get together this fall? Last year's was a good time. I'll be getting some fresh tires in the next few weeks (spectacular sidewall blowout on the way home from BC last night) so I'll need to break them in. Oh yeah, and I want a ride when you're done tuning. |
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That is the only thing I really hate about north florida. No dynos, no racetracks, no sports car get togethers. Everything is like 5-6 hour drive away. Thanks for the link to the billet oil pump gears. If I can find an excuse to drop the oil pan, I will probably do that mod. |
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Originally Posted By: tylerdurden Do you know if they're doing another S2K get together this fall? Last year's was a good time. I'll be getting some fresh tires in the next few weeks (spectacular sidewall blowout on the way home from BC last night) so I'll need to break them in. Oh yeah, and I want a ride when you're done tuning. Even if they don't do one where they allow non S2000s, I've been trying to put on some ClubRoadster.net drives so one way or another there'll be some local drives. When it's done you're welcome to come check it out. You might have to sign a waiver, but we'll make somethin' happen. |
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Originally Posted By: ACR Racer Racing? I wish! I do the occasional HPDE in it, but I haven't had time or money to take it out at all this year. Last run it got was Eddie driving it late last year at PIR, i think that was before the Exhintake, too. I'd like to get out for at least one lapping day this year, but the stars don't seem to be lining up right for that to happen. Damn, well, at least it will be well sorted when you get it on the track... And for god´s sake don´t let Eddie drive it, that guy is way too insane lol. |
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Heh, he's nuts, but in a good way. Not that I ever think he'd hurt the car, but even if he somehow did, it's a throwaway shell, i can always reskin the car. I wish i had his driving skills. He's just got the knack. So tonight I spent the evening fixing my injector routing, cleaning up my wires, and syncing the bodies. Haven't gotten to drive it, and it's still pig rich, but at least it looks better in the engine bay now. Really needs a bath though. Pic whoring follows: |
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Originally Posted By: ACR Racer Heh, he's nuts, but in a good way. Not that I ever think he'd hurt the car, but even if he somehow did, it's a throwaway shell, i can always reskin the car. I wish i had his driving skills. He's just got the knack. So tonight I spent the evening fixing my injector routing, cleaning up my wires, and syncing the bodies. Haven't gotten to drive it, and it's still pig rich, but at least it looks better in the engine bay now. Really needs a bath though. Pic whoring follows: Oh please. *looks under hood of GN, Focus, Volvo* Yeah, your Miata bay is FILTHY! GET YOUR BALLS TO THE BALL WASHER, NOW! Hurry up and get it tuned! I wanna go blast by Shane's place with those ITBs wailing durden: you should join up on some of the clubroadster drives. Matt usually tosses me the keys to whichever roadster he doesn't feel like driving, or I can take my humble Focus. |
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Ok so I really appreciate that you work on your car and all, but are you modding it to be competitive in a league? If I'm not mistaken ITB's cost a lot of money and don't add a lot of power. |
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Originally Posted By: civictuner Ok so I really appreciate that you work on your car and all, but are you modding it to be competitive in a league? If I'm not mistaken ITB's cost a lot of money and don't add a lot of power. ITB's aren't expensive. I am guessing these are probably off a GSXR (or something similar). |
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Originally Posted By: civictuner Ok so I really appreciate that you work on your car and all, but are you modding it to be competitive in a league? If I'm not mistaken ITB's cost a lot of money and don't add a lot of power. They'll compliment his 12:1, 8kRPM future build. And they're shiny! |
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Yeah, fuck leagues, etc. Do most of us do exhausts or intakes to be class-competitive? No. We do it for the fun and the challenge of modifying our cars. It won't add a ton of power, but it'll add a ton of FEEL to the car, and as we all know in the real world where there are no timers, feel is what matters. (I'm sorry, i just HAD to go there!) Seriously though, I didn't want to do a turbo build, I love the sound of ITBs, i wanted a little more power, and I wanted to keep the Miata a Miata, not an overpowered, tough to control car with great numbers but less than stellar drivability. $$/hp ratio is way off the poor end of the scale on these. If i'm lucky i'll end up at 145-148WHP when i'm done. That's about $100/1hp. End of the day every one of us knows that NA builds are anything but economical though, so I just don't count the dollars i'm flushing away. It's all about a fun car at the end of the day, and I'm already working on one turbo car. I wanted completely different experiences. |
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Originally Posted By: LNXGUY ITB's aren't expensive. I am guessing these are probably off a GSXR (or something similar). Nah, i had a set of AE101s for a while, and it was gonna cost me within 500.00 of what these cost to make them work on the Miata. After that i'd have still needed to blow 3-400 on a Megasquirt. These were 1500 (1350 if you count the AE101s I sold) and basically bolted in. Building my own would have been false economy once i counted in my time, energy and efforts to get things made, runs to the parts store, etc, etc. |
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How are the guys at RRev? I spoke to AEM and they suggested i take my car and EMS to them to get some fancy tuning done |
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No clue. All I did was get a few baseline pulls done there. |
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Originally Posted By: ACR Racer Yeah, fuck leagues, etc. Do most of us do exhausts or intakes to be class-competitive? No. We do it for the fun and the challenge of modifying our cars. It won't add a ton of power, but it'll add a ton of FEEL to the car, and as we all know in the real world where there are no timers, feel is what matters. (I'm sorry, i just HAD to go there!) Seriously though, I didn't want to do a turbo build, I love the sound of ITBs, i wanted a little more power, and I wanted to keep the Miata a Miata, not an overpowered, tough to control car with great numbers but less than stellar drivability. $$/hp ratio is way off the poor end of the scale on these. If i'm lucky i'll end up at 145-148WHP when i'm done. That's about $100/1hp. End of the day every one of us knows that NA builds are anything but economical though, so I just don't count the dollars i'm flushing away. It's all about a fun car at the end of the day, and I'm already working on one turbo car. I wanted completely different experiences. Call me satisfied. |
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Originally Posted By: ACR Racer i wanted a little more power, and I wanted to keep the Miata a Miata, not an overpowered, tough to control car with great numbers but less than stellar drivability. WUT? Heresy! Unless you go for a really big turbo, it isn't much different that having a really big cam. |
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Originally Posted By: OnyxEros How are the guys at RRev? I spoke to AEM and they suggested i take my car and EMS to them to get some fancy tuning done If you go with John Reed, you will be fine. He does good work. I don't know of the quality of the other guys that work there. |
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So finally after weeks and weeks, I have everything in the same place at the same time. The piggyback is mounted, the wideband is hooked up. The throttlenets are in place... and I really don't like them. ... but tonight/tomorrow begins the road tune. I finally finished the engine bay off, and got all the wires tucked away from the wideband. Plus, I even stole Syhopeful's aerosol degreaser and took a swipe at the engine bay. (Rich, i'll get ya back.) Picwhoring follows. The fun begins. The weekend starts here. Tomorrow, me and my ITBs are trucking our happy ass to Seattle for the weekend. Road tune FTW! |
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awesome,hard to beat the sound of ITB's at WOT.Hope all goes well,can t wait to see the outcome. I know u probably won t see much,but just wait till theres comp,and lift involved im sure it will shine then. |
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