SIMPLE4012
(Post Master Jr)
09/26/02 04:25 AM
Type R bottom end into 99-00 si (old post)

Hi kids,
<br>
<br>Ok i have seen about 67898797 posts about dropping a 1.8 motor into a 99-00 si. And EVERY post says the same exact things.
<br>#1 WHAT DO I NEED FOR THE SWAP?
<br>#2 Does it go right in?
<br>#3 Is it hard?
<br>
<br>yada yada yada ...you get the point...so here it is folks...your very own damn sticky post from the lil heart of tom [image]/images/icons/smile.gif[/image]
<br>
<br>ok first off....THE BLOCK BOLTS RIGHT IN!!!!!!!!!! No you do not need different mounts. yes your hood will close without hitting (yes a person actually asked me that once). Yes you can use your stock 99-00 si ECU. Yes you can use your stock injectors. No you dont need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator (at this point your ass better have one already though) The car will start and idle just like it did when ya bought it....just might be a lil deeper sounding [image]/images/icons/smile.gif[/image]
<br>
<br>WHAT YOU NEED!
<br>
<br>The Block(duh!)- brand new oem R blocks with 0 miles can be found from several online stores and shops. I wont say where because i like to be fair to all the shops and dont like to play favorites. If you cant find a shop that sells it then walk into the nearest acura dealership, bend over and buy one from them. Look for like 2400+ from acura or like 2100-2200 from a shop online or local shop.
<br>When you get the block it should be complete. Oil pump, water pump, oil pan and everything should still be there. if they arent then simply refuse the block and send it back. They should be there. you pay for them.
<br>
<br>A 1.8 liter VTEC timing belt. a gsr and ITR are the same so dont worry. the 1.6 wont work anymore. but who reuses a timing belt anyways?
<br>
<br>A new headgasket. They are all the same price. Might as well buy an ITR one so all you ricers out there can say you have a Type R head gasket. [image]/images/icons/smile.gif[/image]
<br>
<br>A 6 pack of beer. Bud light is my personal favorite but thats me. Basically anything will work here.
<br>
<br>I am 99.99999% sure that a stock b16 header wont work. Its to small. But then again...if you are putting this block in and have the stock header then you also have issues. A DC JDM 4-1 header is a perfect match with this setup.
<br>
<br>And of course the biggest question of all....
<br>
<br>HOW FAST WILL I GO...?
<br>- How the hell should i know? lets put it this way. Going from a b16 to a b18c5 is like going from dating Bea Arthur from the golden girls to dating Britney Spears...Its no comparison. alll you guys that always say "how much can .2 of displacement matter" DRIVE THE CARS AND THEN YOU WILL SEE THE DIFFERENCES. Night and day isnt the word. Its so much more forgiving in gear selection. way i figure it a 2000 si with a GOOD DRIVER, a good I/H/E setup, Exedy clutch/flywheel (thats what i would use) and a B18c5 block is more then capable of mid 14 sec timeslips. Driver is the most important part of that eqaution though.
<br>
<br>
<br>THATS BASICALLY IT GUYS! there is no black magic to this swap. no voodoo here. Yes you can do this. yes you can stop asking the same questions 7946754967 times. (yes i counted).
<br>
<br>I hope this post helps as many people as the last sticky did.
<br>
<br>later guys.
<br>
<br>Told ya i wouldnt leave ya guys high and dry:)
<br> I also modded the other post as well....

coquinn
(Member)
09/26/02 09:14 AM
Misc. Information

You will also need the timing belt covers because the B18 shortblock is 8mm taller than the B16 shortblock assembly. You can use your current B16 timing belt covers, but there will be an 8mm gap once you have completed your swap.

You will also need the water pipe from a B18C because it has the fittings for the oil cooler. The B16A2 does not have an oil cooler, only an oil filter housing. The B18C does have an oil cooler (which is cooled by the coolant that flows through the water pipe); that being said, you will need the water pipe and the two rubber hoses to run coolant to and from the oil cooler.

Just thought I would add the additional information, good luck!

SIMPLE4012
(Post Master Jr)
09/26/02 09:55 AM
Re: Misc. Information

good man! i knew there was one or 2 things i forgot.

AzSi22
(Major Member)
09/26/02 11:44 AM
Re: Misc. Information

Also GSR or ITR head bolts/studs. B16A are shorter

SIMPLE4012
(Post Master Jr)
09/26/02 12:20 PM
Re: Misc. Information

you sure bout that az? the part numbers from arp are the same.maybe stock is diferent though

AzSi22
(Major Member)
09/26/02 02:58 PM
Re: Misc. Information

I had B16A in mine at first, then I measured them against GSR's and they are different lengths. I had a couple bolts come loose on me (strip slightly) because they were too short. I'm not sure about studs, but I know the bolts are different.

zc911
(Post Master Supreme)
09/26/02 03:01 PM
Re: Misc. Information

just one thing too, that any gaskets get ones from the ITR, they will be chepaer than the same b16 ones or even GSR.
I don't know why this is but if you save $5 hear, $10 there, it always helps

Just an example b16 intake manifold gasket $22 Canadian
ITR intake manifold gasket $15 canadain

JDM Civic
(Post Master Sr)
09/26/02 04:35 PM
Re: Misc. Information

Or if runnign the stock ITR pistons, you may as well swap in a Mugen or Spoon gasket. Get that compression up some more...

Good post Simp

ryuujin03
(Member)
09/26/02 06:49 PM
Re: Misc. Information

alright, I understand you can use a different headgasket, but now my question is, since the 1.8 block bolts right up to the 1.6 B head, is it safe to assume that headgaskets from either Spoon/Mugen/HKS or whatever will still fit if the gasket was intended for a 1.6L ?

SIMPLE4012
(Post Master Jr)
09/26/02 06:55 PM
Re: Misc. Information

yes the bore is the same so it will fit\

DiGBiC
(Post Master Sr)
09/26/02 07:11 PM
Re: Misc. Information

Would the same thing apply to a gsr block as far as teh flywheel cover is concerned? How much does the cover cost?(I know, newbie question)
The reason why I was thinking a gsr block is because I'm probaly going to go the JRSC route, but then when it's time to build the block, build a GSR one w/ lower compression. But definitely want to go with a 1.8. Is this setup going to be more reliable then an LS/VTeC setup? (better rod/stroke ratio)?

MadtownSi
(Moderator)
09/26/02 08:07 PM
Re: Misc. Information

Hold on a sec…..I’m not understanding why B16A head bolts will not work. The Si and ITR use the same head casting. Overall size and shape should be identical. Now the GSR head is a different casting. This might be the reason why you GSR head bolts were longer then the Si ones..
.
.
.
.
.
.
Scratch that….I just realized why you need ITR head bolts. I just looked at my B16A block and it hit me. They increased the block height but keep the threaded insert in the same location. So even if the heads are the same, longer bolts will still be necessary.


JDM Civic
(Post Master Sr)
09/26/02 09:01 PM
Re: Misc. Information

Do you still want an answer?

i never thought of that myself until now. I was wondering the same thing as well. Both heads are P73 casts so why not right?

Good call Scott [thumbup]

sleeper4dr
(Member)
09/27/02 12:02 AM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

just wanted to fill in about the header. from my very OWN personal experience a B16 header will not work with 1.8Liter motors.

i recently switched from a 1st gen B16 header to a 94 GSR header on my LSvtec because the B16 header was giving me a bad exhaust leak between the exhaust manifold and downpipe.... because the damn downpipe was hitting the oil pan and thus it was not able to seal properly...

so theres your .00001%

(nice post btw Tom)

Beave0101
(servant of egosgame)
09/27/02 02:01 AM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

Good post....leaving those that are ghetto and buying used blocks out in the cold?
Thats the first time I heard about that flywheel thinga-majigga, awesome.

coquinn
(Member)
09/27/02 08:46 AM
Question

SIMPLE4012: I do not believe the lower flywheel cover needs to be changed. When I did the swap in my car, the cover worked just fine. I just wanted to clear up any confusion. Thanks.

AzSi22
(Major Member)
09/27/02 12:38 PM
Re: Question

I used my stock lower flywheel cover too. Anyways, the STOCK B16a exhaust manifold will fit, barely. I had one on mine right after I got it done. I got an Apexi GT header for the B16a too, that fit as well, but it is 4-2-1. Any B16A 4-1 header will not fit, 4-2-1 might fit, but may have problems, stock will fit though. Might as well get the JDM DC header, its probably cheaper anyway.

SIMPLE4012
(Post Master Jr)
09/28/02 02:48 PM
Re: Question

thanks guys i edited the post:)

BoRedRaceR702
(Post Master Sr)
09/28/02 07:35 PM
Re: Question

Wouldn't a GSR block with ctr pistons be equivalent to an ITR block? Its both a 1.8 but isn't a gsr block cheaper?

MoesFlashBlueCar
(Post Master Sr)
09/29/02 11:02 AM
Re: Question

CTR pistons in a GSR block should net higher compression than the ITR block. The ITR block probally has some mysterious VODOO in it too.

There the same in displacement but there no doubt in my mind that the R block has a few special things that the B18c1 block lacks.

Can anyone elaborate on this?

MadtownSi
(Moderator)
09/29/02 11:56 AM
Re: Question

Take a look at this link and scroll down just a bit and read the “overview” on the ITR internal details. May small additional details make an ITR what it is

http://12.239.16.150/technical.html


sigma41
(Major Member)
09/29/02 09:51 PM
Re: Misc. Information

good post but insead of using the bud lite just get a gallon of vodka.

MoesFlashBlueCar
(Post Master Sr)
09/30/02 10:52 AM
Re: Question

Thank you very much MadtownSi, i knew the ITR had have something more than the rest of the B18's out there. Quick question, if i plan on doing a block swap what clutch and flywheel would i use?

Im getting a Exedy clutch and flywheel combo and was wondering if that would carry over. I think im gonna do this Damn Simple for making this post.

Edit: DURH!!! They use the same part numbers

spencer00si
(Post Master Sr)
09/30/02 04:24 PM
Re: Question

Exedy's part # for clutch and Flywheel combo are the same for the b16 and b18

SI-Rious
(Major Member)
10/01/02 04:32 PM
Re: Question

Save your money , get some kind of fi and if you live in cali emissions is gonna be a bitch.

GIANT Helmet
(Sr Member)
10/02/02 12:22 AM
Re: Question

My friend pulled 158whp with a B18C5 block and B18C3 head in his 00 GSR. This was with NO tuning and NO aftermarket parts. Except for a drop in filter that is. I forgot what the Torque #'s were but I think he is off to a good start. The reason he chose that setup is because his crank went walkabouts, otherwise he prob wouldn't have done it. We both feel his car is good for 14's if he drive's it right.

BoRedRaceR702
(Post Master Sr)
10/02/02 08:19 PM
Re: Question

So if you were broke but could afford a gsr block instead of a type r block is it worth it to buy it? Or would saving up for an actual type r block be better? Lets say I was gonna buy a type r block and put in ctr pistons, wouldn't it be cheaper if I put ctr pistons with a gsr block?

Im asking because i wanted to buy a 1.8 block. But instead of spending more money on a type r block i would just get a gsr block. Since i was going to change the pistons anyways....

spencer00si
(Post Master Sr)
10/02/02 08:32 PM
Re: Question

I'm not 100% positive but i think that putting CTR pistons in a b18c block will yield like 12.0:1 compression

electronspeeder
(Post Master Sr)
10/02/02 08:36 PM
Re: Question

The GSR and type R have the exact same BARE block.

BoRedRaceR702
(Post Master Sr)
10/03/02 07:51 PM
Re: Question

So would i be wasting my money if i bought a type r block and replaced the stock pistons with ctr pistons?

Si Impulse Tuner
(Post Master)
10/04/02 10:26 AM
Re: Question

so if i were ordering ARP head studs, i would order itr ones?

b16bEK9
(Poster)
10/04/02 05:16 PM
Re: Question

get whatever you can afford on the block issue (I'd personally save and get ITR), but if you don't want to than get a GSR.

Get 1.8 ARP studs

MacGyver
(Post Master)
10/08/02 12:46 AM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

My ITR bottom and GSR head made 185 whp and 131 ft lbs of torque. untuned..
and ran a 14.084 at 102.5 mph.. on street tires... in a 2600 lb del Sol.

Mac


cliff st-clair
(Post Master Sr)
10/10/02 08:53 PM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

with cams right?

MacGyver
(Post Master)
10/10/02 08:56 PM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

skunk 2 stage 1 intake and type R exhaust..cam

Beave0101
(servant of egosgame)
10/11/02 02:46 PM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

Well, since I"m comparing the price of having a b18c1 with type-r pistons, VS having a cooler engine name and getting the ITR block, if you could tell me what to look for or how much you paid for a ITR Block w/pistons......used......
-aaron

blueSIguy
(Post Master Sr)
10/11/02 02:50 PM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

I'm no drag expert but damn, 185whp + 2600 car and 102 mph traps are impressive.

MacGyver
(Post Master)
10/11/02 05:56 PM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

the 185 whp was done on factory del Sol Si exhaust with a SOHC NON VTEC throttle body..

im projecting more like 190-195 with the exhaust and new throttle body

Mac

91civicSi
(Newbie)
11/10/02 12:55 PM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

wow that's good.. is b16head better than gsr if they both had the same internals? correct me if im wrong...

MacGyver
(Post Master)
11/10/02 09:36 PM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

All things being equal as in cams and such. The GSR head with inherantly produce more hp due to a smaller combustion chamber. Thus this raises compression. Also the GSR head flows more CFM than an ITR head. But the GSR head induces turbulence in the air flow unlike the Type R head. Im not sure if the Type R head is better or not.. I personaly believe that the GSR head is better but i can not prove it..

Mac

CivicSD
(Post Master Jr)
11/11/02 11:04 AM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

Will my car pass smog with a ITR bottom end here in California?

GuyWithSi
(Jr Poster)
11/12/02 02:50 PM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

so for 2200 or so the block comes with the piston and rod as well?

00JunSi
(Jr Poster)
11/14/02 03:22 PM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

How do you figure the GSR head flows more CFM than an ITR head and produces more power? Do you have actual proof? I don't think Honda engineers would go with a poorer flowing head for an engine that requires more flow than a GSR.

Beave0101
(servant of egosgame)
11/15/02 03:46 PM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

In reply to:

How do you figure the GSR head flows more CFM than an ITR head and produces more power? Do you have actual proof? I don't think Honda engineers would go with a poorer flowing head for an engine that requires more flow than a GSR.

AzSi22
(Major Member)
11/16/02 06:55 PM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

This is Alaniz's comparison of a STOCK B16A head vs. a GSR head. If you look, the B16A head flows better for most of the midrange until about .450 lift. A ITR head is ported well with better valves and valvetrain, which do YOU think flows better???





trans am killer
(Post Master Sr)
11/20/02 08:16 PM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

im getting my C5 block and stuff ready and i was made aware that ITR pulleys (Power steering, alternator, and crank) would be a good idea. just to add something.

may not be needed but may be a good idea, who knows... im just paying king motorsports to do it all for me so i dont have to worry about this shit.

00JunSi
(Jr Poster)
11/22/02 04:40 AM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

So then explain to me why Honda would choose a poorer flowing head?

trans am killer
(Post Master Sr)
12/08/02 03:15 AM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

ok, we ran into a few problems with my setup, u CANNOT use b16 timing belt covers. u need ITR, all THREE of them.

RyanSaysNo
(Post Master Jr)
12/16/02 12:31 AM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

wheres is the best place to purchase a shortblock because im lookin to get one soon.

jasma1
(Newbie)
07/18/03 12:15 PM
99 itr block with 2gen b16a head

i'm doing a 99 itr block with ctr pistons and b16a head with head work what ECU is good to use i have a second gen b16a ecu with pyr racing chip is that good to use pm me back thanks

REDHCSI
(Poster)
07/19/03 02:31 AM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

Quote:

just wanted to fill in about the header. from my very OWN personal experience a B16 header will not work with 1.8Liter motors.
<br>
<br>i recently switched from a 1st gen B16 header to a 94 GSR header on my LSvtec because the B16 header was giving me a bad exhaust leak between the exhaust manifold and downpipe.... because the damn downpipe was hitting the oil pan and thus it was not able to seal properly...
<br>
<br>so theres your .00001% [image]/images/icons/wink.gif[/image]
<br>
<br>(nice post btw Tom)



with my ls/vtec setup i used my old dc sport b16 header <4-1> and it works just fine its a tight fit but it doesn't touch the oil pan

TexasSI
(Post Master Sr)
08/01/03 06:22 PM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

Fuck it i bought one too..
stock b18c5
Toda b16 head..ported by Portflow / retainers.Toda b cams .Toda valvetrain
exedy clutch/toda flywheel. p28 kenji style, fields..Jdm 4-1 header jet hot coated,
block is going in as we speak.

SiRkid
(Post Master Sr)
09/23/03 12:18 AM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

ported well? better valvetrain?
i guess...

Waffen
(Post Master Sr)
09/23/03 02:23 PM
Re: STICKY Type R bottom end into 99-00 si

Quote:

Will my car pass smog with a ITR bottom end here in California?



I doubt it only because it wouldn't pass visual, but maybe you could take it to a referee so they could recognize the new block code.