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Okay for the last couple months I have been looking over these forums reading every post about anything, but in the last month nothing has been happening. It's not picking back up so it's time for me to start some questions... First of many. I'm looking for around 350 - 400 hp. 1st Question - What manifold should I be looking into? I seen SiAdam had a custom one so that didn't help me much, I heard the ramhorn was top of the line.. but I'm not willing to get rid of my a/c (live in arizona, a/c is a must). Inlinepro was good also so that's what I was thinking. 2nd Question - could a journal bearing turbo even put me to my 350 - 400hp goal? (still new to this) 3rd and last question for now - 10 psi or 13 psi spring? I believe siadam boosted to 22 psi off a 13 psi spring so could a 10 psi get up to around 18 - 19? I am new to this whole scene and I have read FAQ's so don't trash me for being a newb. |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins Okay for the last couple months I have been looking over these forums reading every post about anything, but in the last month nothing has been happening. It's not picking back up so it's time for me to start some questions... First of many. I'm looking for around 350 - 400 hp. 1st Question - What manifold should I be looking into? I seen SiAdam had a custom one so that didn't help me much, I heard the ramhorn was top of the line.. but I'm not willing to get rid of my a/c (live in arizona, a/c is a must). Inlinepro was good also so that's what I was thinking. 2nd Question - could a journal bearing turbo even put me to my 350 - 400hp goal? (still new to this) 3rd and last question for now - 10 psi or 13 psi spring? I believe siadam boosted to 22 psi off a 13 psi spring so could a 10 psi get up to around 18 - 19? I am new to this whole scene and I have read FAQ's so don't trash me for being a newb. Good questions, I'll happily try to answer. Anything is possible w/bank. So w/that said, what does your budget look like? 1. To keep your a/c you aren't going to be able to run most ramhorn manifolds, so a log is going to be your friend. Inline would probably be your best bet, and will also be a fair amount cheaper than most tubular EL manifolds. 2. Journal or ball bearing does not effect power output, but instead refers to the turbo's reliability and spool up characteristics. I.E. journal bearings are generally cheaper, but typically have a much greater "ramp" rate in regards to spool up as compared to a ball bearing unit that is more smooth. Compare dyno's and you will understand. The trim & wheels of the turbo are where the power is made, not the bearing type. 3. The general rule of thumb is that you can safely double your wastegate spring pressure assuming there are no vacuum/boost leaks present. Good luck on your project, we will do what we can. Even though I don't have my Si anymore, I still check the forum everyday. |
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My income is very very small... Luckily parents supporting me lots still so I don't have many bills. I can basically put my whole pay checks towards my car. I recently just got it all payed off and that was my first goal. Now I have around 1100$ saved up now for kit... still gotta get hondata s300, limited slip, and new stage three clutch? Awesome, the journal bearing and ball bearing explanation helped me alot.. I knew the ball bearing spooled around 1000 - 1500 rpms faster? but glad that I can still get my goal out of a regular journal bearing. And what clutch would you recommend? Alls I know is I'm going to need a stage 3. Yea, I was surprised to see you got rid of your si. I heard about you through my brother (previous owner of my car.) He didn't believe me that you did, but how your s2k is turning out looks like a good decision. |
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Clutchmaster or ACT clutches are good choices |
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I think I had a CM Stage 3. I would highly recommend it for anything under 500whp. |
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Alrighty thanks for the advice. |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins Alrighty thanks for the advice. Found a thread for you. http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2095625 |
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Well inlinepro has great power reviews with a/c so that's what I'm going to go with, but I can't find them under 300$ ... Ebay gets one every once and awhile but they also still shoot up past 300. Looks like that's what I'm going to have to dish out for one of these. |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins Well inlinepro has great power reviews with a/c so that's what I'm going to go with, but I can't find them under 300$ ... Ebay gets one every once and awhile but they also still shoot up past 300. Looks like that's what I'm going to have to dish out for one of these. Not surprised the inline pro logs can support 600hp easily.I had one but decided going with a Neukin ram horn set up in the end. |
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Yea in arizona the ram horn is not an option lol. |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins Yea in arizona the ram horn is not an option lol. Look @ the thread I posted, they have some ram horns that allow a/c & p/s. |
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Hobkins build: Stock B16A2 Block bored .20 over. SRP 9.1:1 Pistons, Eagle H Beam rods. Stock Crank. All seals and gaskets are OEM Honda. Head was cleaned all new (stock) valves, stock springs. GSR Cams. Haven't purchased Cam Gears yet... ...I think thats pretty much the majority of it. Still haven't touched the tranny |
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Really no need for cam gears.I had them on my build and they stayed at 0 setting.Other than that looks good. |
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Originally Posted By: SiAdam Originally Posted By: Hobkins Yea in arizona the ram horn is not an option lol. Look @ the thread I posted, they have some ram horns that allow a/c & p/s. Okay I reread through it and click on some links but even those guys that run these ram horn manifolds say that most of the time it's quite a tight fit to keep the a/c and ps. Some even say they are worried about it melting the a/c line. Never the less it can be done and I will consider it. What I was wondering is if I run a smaller inlinepro manifold vs a ram horn would the ram horn add around 30 hp more? I'm not sure I'm just throwing out a number that I could see being relatively close. |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins Originally Posted By: SiAdam Originally Posted By: Hobkins Yea in arizona the ram horn is not an option lol. Look @ the thread I posted, they have some ram horns that allow a/c & p/s. Okay I reread through it and click on some links but even those guys that run these ram horn manifolds say that most of the time it's quite a tight fit to keep the a/c and ps. Some even say they are worried about it melting the a/c line. Never the less it can be done and I will consider it. What I was wondering is if I run a smaller inlinepro manifold vs a ram horn would the ram horn add around 30 hp more? I'm not sure I'm just throwing out a number that I could see being relatively close. Typically you sacrifice a little low end power and spool for more power per lb. of boost as compared to a log manifold. For your goals, an inline would serve you just fine. Run a 3" exhaust and other supporting mods and you will do ok. |
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I'm thinkin that I'm just going to get a used kit ... i don't have money to throw around and if I buy a used set I could just replace certain parts for other parts. And for the clutch I went on a quick search for them a minute ago and they were going for 500$ on clutchmasters website I'm not complaining lol but I was curious if I should be looking a different place for these clutches? I will do a more extensive search for them after I get off work tonight. |
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Got a pair of Megan Cam Gears in, but other then that nothing special for me. Still waiting for that kit to come along my way. |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins Got a pair of Megan Cam Gears in, but other then that nothing special for me. Still waiting for that kit to come along my way. Sell the gears, they don't do much unless you are making big power. I believe I got my clutch a long time ago for cheaper than that...something in the 350-400 range, but I could be wrong. |
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The gears were not much, not worth to turn around and sell... I will keep looking for a decent priced stage 3 clutch... |
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i believe i payed close to $700 for my centerforce dual friction and a new throwout bearing. just a couple words of insight; its better, and usually cheaper, to do things right the first time than to have to do them twice. cheap, fast, and reliable. you can only have two out of the three |
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Well I will prolly end up just ebayin this clutch.. looks like I can pick up a cm stage 3 for about 400 w/ shipping... that's not to bad. i will keep searching. |
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Now for my ls I'm looking at wavetrac differentials... they are priced at around 750$ ... Curious to know what you guys are running in your setups.. I understand that this piece will be one of the more expensive pieces, I would like to spend less but eh I will get the money one way or another. |
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Quaife LSD seems to be standard... People have run OBX LSD's.. I've heard good and bad... |
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ok the Quaife lsd's were about 100 dollars more then the wavetrac.. not that bad of a difference. |
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Obx is what I used. They are proven to hold the power. 600whp+ cars run them for years. I paid $365 for mine a few years back. |
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How realiable was that obx lsd for for you? I've read some very very old reviews and people say they are junk... but didn't sound like any of them had any personal experience with them... over the years they could have matured a bit.. but who knows, price is still at around 360$... |
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have the obx in my si. 365 whp and close to two years without any problems. the first gen obx diffs had problems with not being to remobe the axle once installed so ive heard. heard they shaved down a part of the diff, and the problem has been resolved. |
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Alright well it sounds good... I'll try and pick up one of these asap. |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins Alright well it sounds good... I'll try and pick up one of these asap. ZERO problems. The first gen obx's weren't all that grat, but as long as you buy new, you are set. My cousin has the Si now and is pushing for 700whp+ and will still be using the obx. |
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Well that sounds much better then a 850$ lsd.... I'm sure it will hold my 300 - 350 whp.. |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins Well that sounds much better then a 850$ lsd.... I'm sure it will hold my 300 - 350 whp.. Knowledge is power. |
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Yes it is. I'm trying to get some of my pics of my cam gears up before I put em in. |
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Okay guys, you buy your kits used or new? and what size exhaust did you run? full 2.5" or what? |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins Okay guys, you buy your kits used or new? and what size exhaust did you run? full 2.5" or what? Most don't buy kits, we piece it together..saves ALOT of money. As for exhaust...nothing less than 3". |
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Cheaper to peice it together? SiAdam how much did your turbo, Intercooler, bov, wastegate and piping cost? (I was really going for just the turbo kit itself, nothing else...) And wow.. full 3" exhaust is a big pipe.. guessing I gotta pick up that soon too. |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins Cheaper to peice it together? SiAdam how much did your turbo, Intercooler, bov, wastegate and piping cost? (I was really going for just the turbo kit itself, nothing else...) And wow.. full 3" exhaust is a big pipe.. guessing I gotta pick up that soon too. It all depends on your goals. Garret turbo was a 57 trim. $520 Precision Cooler $400 HKS Bov was $200 Tial 38mm gate $250 Piping was 2.5" for the cooler I bought from summit. Of course, thats far from a "kit". |
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Well ofcourse, but those were just the peices I was interested in. Not to bad of prices. Thanks. Still unsure about how I'm going to go about this... either try to find a decent used kit or I will buy in peices. Thanks for the advice. |
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Tommarow I'm going to buy my cm stage 3 clutch, and my lsd. Again once I get a chance I will post some pics. |
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I got my new obx lsd and cm stage 3 clutch shipping right now... Still gotta get quite a bit more stuff lol, but finally started getting the peices... |
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I was wondering how long my new cm stage 3 clutch will last me? is it something that I will have to replace in 5 months? |
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SiAdam you picked up those peices cheap... I'm still looking around to find deals like that. |
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I got some pics to finally post. My megan cam gears [img][/img] [img][/img] My cm stage 3... [img][/img] And finally I got a pic of my brothers 350z and my Si. A bit dark sorry. [img][/img] |
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Just got my kit in... Turbonetics t3/t4 .57 trim .63 a/r Drag exhaust manifold (not to happy with this... will upgrade soon) 38mm Wastegate Greddy Bov RC 550cc injectors 2.5" downpipe Drag i/c about 6.5" height (another peice I'm not thrilled about) Tapped B Series oil pan All piping and necessary oil lines It's a good kit to start me off.. I'm not sure what hp this kit alone will put me at but after I make some adjustments I will have a decent setup. We've started building my b16 motor but noticed some small peices missing so I'm now waiting on those pieces. my b18c5 will have to stay in my car for a couple more weeks. |
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I'd boost the b18c5 |
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hate to tell you this, but it looks like someone pee'd on your driveway |
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Haha I knew someone was going to comment on that ... |
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The b18 is my brothers... wish he would let me boost it. |
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pee:p.. nice man when are u gonna start to put everything in! |
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Ok well I got the engine built for the most part... still waiting on the gaskets for the back cover and lower cover on the timing belt... once the honda dealer gets them I will finish up the engine part... Onto the tranny we have no idea how to install an lsd I have found some how to's on installing lsd's on honda tech but still. Our local honda dealer doesn't have the tranny gaskets, so we were thinking of just taking it to a shop and having them deal with it all. I'm not sure if this will be worth it though. |
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Still need to get Hondata s300, walbro 255 fuel pump, 3bar map sensor, and eventually the tune. I'm sure there will be other things that pop up but for now I'm getting close. |
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Tranny gaskets? What? |
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I don't know... some parts that I was told needed to be replaced when you open up your tranny...? |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins I don't know... some parts that I was told needed to be replaced when you open up your tranny...? You need to find out for yourself what you need, not rely on someone else. What year is your car again? |
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2000, I have been looking around but really haven't found a decent page on the little items in a transmission. Other sites have posts that just go deep into the gearing and such. I haven't had any experience with transmissions so I'm going into this blind, I will go read up in the owner's manual on the basic parts of the tranny. |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins 2000, I have been looking around but really haven't found a decent page on the little items in a transmission. Other sites have posts that just go deep into the gearing and such. I haven't had any experience with transmissions so I'm going into this blind, I will go read up in the owner's manual on the basic parts of the tranny. Ok, just checking. I rebuilt my 99 b16a2 tranny. First I put a lsd into it, then a yr later my counter shaft ripped apart. I can safely say, there are no gaskets, the tranny cases use Hondabond, and the only "gaskets" aren't really gaskets, they are axles seals. I just reused mine...but that depends on each application. Check here. http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto...KA5MT&catcgry5= Scroll down to MT Tranny stuff under system component. |
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Thanks Adam that link helps alot. As I get more info on the tranny I will decide wether to use my old peices again. |
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My build, my little Honda 250R, and then the Si. Getting a collection of hondas lol. [img] |
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Well the engine is pretty much built just sitting there rapped up now... I finally got the info on my obx lsd after 5 weeks that it has been on back order for 6 months and this company are no longer selling them. So now I will either buy a tranny with an lsd installed (theres a b16 tranny with a quaife lsd already installed for 800) if I bought that I would try to sell my stock tranny right now for a bit of cash. Or I will just buy an obx lsd and install in my tranny. |
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I think I bought my obx lsd on eBay back in teh day. |
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Hehe yea I need to figure this out. My brother might have found someone to buy his motor (that motor is the one inside of my car now) and the guy wants it saturday so my motor (the b16 built) is hopefully going to drop down inside of my Si. Finally! I can run without an lsd for awhile but I would really like to just have gotten it all built then drop it all in there at once. Eh we will see what happens. Can't wait though!!! |
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Piecing together might be cheaper. Make sure to upgrade your clutch. |
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Originally Posted By: terd_civic Piecing together might be cheaper. Make sure to upgrade your clutch. I already have my kit and clutch, it is cheaper to peice but I got a great deal on a set. |
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I've read quite a few posts on alot of different sites about where to place your dump tubes or if people even have them and it's making me wonder what I'm going to do with mine. I hear poeple that run without one or with a very short one have problems with the exhaust fumes staying in the engine bay and sometimes going into the turbo robbing hp. They say it's very very loud and some people like it that way. I hear people say it's good to run it down by your oil pan facing towards the rear of the car. Reduces the sound and exhaust fumes in the engine bay. I haven't heard much people running it into the downpipe but I assumed that's what everyone does. Anyways I was curious of what you folks here at ClubSi did? and how you liked it? |
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Run it down and underneath your oil pan facing the back of the car. |
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Originally Posted By: SiAdam Run it down and underneath your oil pan facing the back of the car. Sounds good to me Thanks. |
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Okay this is what is holding me back from finishing this build. I have seen a few posts on how to install them so I'm not going there. I'm just curious of how long and what's the difficultly level on installing one of these. Is it possible for an average joe to come along, grab some tools and slap one of these in? |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins Okay this is what is holding me back from finishing this build. I have seen a few posts on how to install them so I'm not going there. I'm just curious of how long and what's the difficultly level on installing one of these. Is it possible for an average joe to come along, grab some tools and slap one of these in? I followed a how-to on H-T that was great. IF you read the info, you can decide if you have the tools/know how to tackle it. |
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Well my brother and his friend and I going to try to get this thing all built on the 18th... I still don't have my lsd in but I'm thinking we could do it ourselves. Will save me cash and hopefully I will learn something lol. Unfortunetly we gotta pull my B18 that's in it now and drop that B16 back in then hook it all up and then get the turbo down inside. Honda-Tech had a great "How to install turbo" thread so I have been studing it and everything doesn't look to bad, looks like the wiring on the ecu and junk will be a pain. But who knows. I'm getting quite excited about this, and can't wait to finally get this thing running after all this time. |
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Haha my boost gauge that I got with my kit doesn't sit on 0, it's not off to bad. From what I hear it will reset itself when I hook it up. We'll see. And now a random pic of my turbo + drag mani + wastegate. This is how I recieved it, I didn't put it together. I was pretty lazy when I wrapped it. |
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Good way to get started. Don't sweat the gauge, it's just for reference, they are usually off a hair anyway. I would definitely lengthen that downpipe dump. Good luck. |
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Yea well the kid that ran this before me ran it like this lol. The dump tube looks like it would have pushed that exhaust right into the block. I know it's not long enough to get all the way under. Makes for a dirty dirty block... |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins Yea well the kid that ran this before me ran it like this lol. The dump tube looks like it would have pushed that exhaust right into the block. I know it's not long enough to get all the way under. Makes for a dirty dirty block... Not only that, but the turbo tends to suck in spent fumes, reducing it's power output. |
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Dang Adam, your civic with that c16 at 22 pounds rips at 5k rpms. I can only imagine a pull like that haha. And 325 lbs of torque is insane. |
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who are you going to have tune it? out joe at Locash is renowned as the best, but everyone i know that asks him nowadays gets told to pound sand. tim at xact dyno has done well with my car. authorized hondata and he's in srd so there are mechanics in house as well. |
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Originally Posted By: HabaneroSedan who are you going to have tune it? out joe at Locash is renowned as the best, but everyone i know that asks him nowadays gets told to pound sand. tim at xact dyno has done well with my car. authorized hondata and he's in srd so there are mechanics in house as well. I'm still looking around, my brother works with a guy just is now just opening up a dyno and tune shop up in Prescott and he will give me a killer deal. Name of shop I'm not familiar with. Whereever I go it will be a long trip because were in Camp Verde. I got to pick a good one. On another note, I just recieved my OBX Lsd and still waiting on my Walbro 255, OBD2b to OBD1 Harness, and my map sensor. |
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Someone on H-T gave me a very nice link to a how to on lsd's. And this is the list that was given of the replacement parts. He said only replace if you need to? Well our Honda Dealer most of the time doesn't have the parts we need so we have to wait a couple days, so I would like to get the right ones ordered now. I'm wondering if I should just play it safe and buy all these replacement peices and take a hit. SiAdam you especially might know of what you need replace and what you don't. Ofcourse I'm still trying to go along the lines of replace only what's needed and my list will very likely be different. 91216-PH8-005 : Clutch Housing Mainshaft Oil Seal 91002-PS1-003 : Clutch Housing Mainshaft Bearing (28x60x15) 91101-P80-008 : Clutch Housing Countershaft Bearing (33x60x20) 91205-PL3-A01 : Clutch Housing Axle Seal (35x56x8) 72mm Mainshaft thrust shim 23927-PG2-A00 : Mainshaft Spring Washer (28mm) 91205-PC9-711 : Gear Housing Axle Seal (40x62x8) 91211-P21-008 : 1st Gear (Lower) Friction Dampener 91212-P21-008 : 2nd Gear (Upper) Friction Dampener 91105-P21-003 : 2nd Gear Needle Bearing 90202-PH8-000 : Countershaft Lock Nut (23mm) 23926-P21-000 : Washer (23mm) 91003-P21-003 : Countershaft Ball Bearing 91102-P21-003 : Countershaft Roller Bearing (25x52.2x15) |
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I'm probably not a good example of who to ask, b/c I only replaced my diff bearings. When I opened it up, everything looked great. The only reason I ended up replacing a bearing on the diff, was b/c I dented one when I was taking it off. So I ended up buying one to replace it. It ran great for a year, until I broke a countershaft, replaced it that following year and it ran great until I sold it. Even went down the 1320 on a 2step and 30lbs of boost. |
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The only time when other's replace the bearings is when they dent them also. I'll just buy them to make sure. And probably will just grab the seals while I'm at Honda. A few $ each seal aint bad. |
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Now that I'm down to a week till I build my car I'm scrambling to get parts. Bought s300 with p28 socketed, and now see a deal for a BLOX Intake Manifold for $160 shipped on H-T. Still need gauges, gauges pod, tranny replacement parts for the lsd install, and possibly a wideband sensor? I'm still learning about it. |
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Do I need two new differential ball bearings ? The two that are on the stock differential will fit the new obx differential right? Siadam you said you only replaced them because you dented it getting it out. But I'm trying to make 100% sure that they will fit because I'm making one final trip down to honda to get all my parts squared away. |
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I'm pretty sure. You may also need a shim as well for the new diff. That has to be measured and then figured out what you need excactly. |
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Well so far we have installed the lsd, installed the walbro 255, pulled my type R motor, and now have mounted my tranny to engine. We are now just about to go back out and make sure I got everything on the engine that I had on the type R. Once I make sure everything is the same we will drop it in tonight. Turbo tommarow. |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins Well so far we have installed the lsd, installed the walbro 255, pulled my type R motor, and now have mounted my tranny to engine. We are now just about to go back out and make sure I got everything on the engine that I had on the type R. Once I make sure everything is the same we will drop it in tonight. Turbo tommarow. Good luck. |
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Soooo much work we got done this weekend. Unfortunetly we could not finish installing the b16 back into the car. We have gotten really close. These are some pics that I have taken in the middle of the process. My Type R motor as it sat. Getting started. My beastly forged B16 My dad's 450k mile lx in the background. Brother was playing around seeing how my front bumper looked on it. When we were pulling this out we were like ... exhuast leak lol? Yep something's wrong lol. IF ONLY THINGS CAN STAY THIS CLEAN!!!!!! And my latest pic. Still need wiring done, and various other things. And we can't forget the turbo! |
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More updates now. Most of engine swap is done. Ecu is in. Turbo + Intercooler done. STILL NEED to get resister box wired in, gauges hooked up, and I think I'm going to run a longer coupling so I can finish getting my air filter setup done. AND my cheap ebay wastegate rests right against my A/C lines, I'm sure your wastegate becomes a very high temp while running so do you guys have any suggestions? I'm going to heat wrap them but I think I need something else. Comments VERY much appreciated. Here's a pic. Latest pics. |
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Wrap the a/c line with something, or it's surely going to burn that up in no time. |
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You think just a heat wrap will fix it so it won't burn up? My next upgrade is a new exhaust manifold which will be an InlinePro and probably a new tial wastegate. I'm almost sure this will reposition my wastegate away from A/C lines. So this setup is only temporary but I don't want to have to replace a/c lines after a month of use. |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins You think just a heat wrap will fix it so it won't burn up? My next upgrade is a new exhaust manifold which will be an InlinePro and probably a new tial wastegate. I'm almost sure this will reposition my wastegate away from A/C lines. So this setup is only temporary but I don't want to have to replace a/c lines after a month of use. Something is better than nothing. FYI, unless you go to a ramhorn style mani, or a top mount setup, I wouldn't bother upgrading to another log. |
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This drag manifold is horrible... Wastegate is on one runner... mabye inline won't give me power gains but will possibly improve efficiency of my setup who knows. I don't know you guys are the experienced ones with these. I will have it up and running in a week hopefully, then I will be able to finally start doing some of these part swaps to see power gains... |
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i have the drag manifold on my Si with a tail wastegate and it looks like i have way more room then what you do i don't have ac but from the looks of the pics my wastegate still would clear the ac lines |
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Okay I'm sorry, the last few months have been hard and was not easy to work on the car or even buy the parts. Every weekend we chipped a bit of the work off and now finally.. the civic is at the dyno as we speak. The guy really wanted to learn the base maps and play with the car so it's going to be over there for a few days... Unfortunetly he played with it for about a day then did some pulls and at most it's running 240whp...? Does this setup sound like a 240whp setup? To me with a 11 psi spring it should be atleast 270+ but that's my guess. Let me hear what your thinking. Stock B16A2 Block Bored .20 over SRP 9.1:1 Pistons Eagle H Beam Rods Turbonetics t3/t4 .57 trim .63 a/r Drag exhaust manifold 38mm Cheapo Wastegate - 11 PSI Spring Greddy Bov RC 550cc injectors 2.5" Downpipe 2.5" Exhaust Drag I/C 6.5" height Hondata S300 Walbro 255 |
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1l lbs should be more than 240whp imo. To be honest I can't remember exactly what I made, but I think on 10-11lbs I was putting down ~300whp ?? I think on 18lbs I made 400whp and on 22lbs I made 450whp |
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I'm sorry but I forgot to say the tuner only rev'd to about 6500 rmps at most. He only took it up to 6500 probably because we told him it was a whole new moter, with a whole new turbo kit strapped on it, with a whole new EMS running it. H-T members said if I really took it up to 7800 or whatever then it should be close to 300... But I'd be happy with 270+ 95 Degree weather at 4500 Ft. |
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It would help some....when are you going for a retune? |
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Wow 4 months gone by now. Oh boy has things changed. I bet for all of us. I got the tune by a real tuner about 90 miles away down in Phoenix a few months ago and dyno'd at 251. Sucks but the guy told me my turbo bearings were going out.. or something like that. Guy I bought it from didn't tell me anything about it but what can you do. It drives great. Not as quick as my brothers 350z but good enough. I still love the car and with a few more upgrades I'm sure I can smoke it. |
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Turn the boost up...I didn't review the thread, but if you are on a stock motor, you can make 400whp on pump gas. If you want to be ballsy, make 500whp on race..lol. You shouldn't have ANY problems with a 350z..haha. |
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No not stock motor. Stock B16A2 Block Bored .20 over SRP 9.1:1 Pistons Eagle H Beam Rods 11 pounds of boost IM thinking I need to open exhaust to full 3" and rebuild that turbo. Possibly a boost controller also not sure yet though. |
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I have the Drag mani. Probably 1 of the first casted...LOL! If this helps @9.5-11.5psi w/TialWG. I saw 290whp/180wtq...ish. Me: 155k+ miles BoneStock B16A2 Head/Block, 3mmHG t3/t4 .57 trim .63 a/r Drag mani 38mm TialWG SSQBov Macgyver MBC RC 440 cc injectors 3" Downpipe 2.90" Exhaust Drag I/C 6.5" height SFAC ftmfw! LOL! Walbro 255 15psi all day = ) |
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Oh yeah...AC ROCKS!!!! Happy Hump Day! |
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Originally Posted By: 00OldSi If this helps @9.5-11.5psi Originally Posted By: 00OldSi 15psi all day = ) Wait you running 9.5 - 11.5 on the 290 rating? |
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Roger...290 ish. A 3' DP will free your setup a bit. solid 15+ whp if not more. |
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Yea I have prety much same stuff as yours and S300 running it. I'm just confused why I'm only getting 250ish. I don't really know if I rebuild that turbo and had full 3" from turbo out will give me 50 hp. Because that should be very close if not at a 300whp setup. |
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If I were to start putting more money into it again and start upgrading it more I would prolly do it in this order. Rebuild Turbo Full 3" Exhaust from turbo out. (If even possible my 2.5" downpipe is very tight it seems like already down there) Boost Controller Then Retune and then think about further upgrades. What do you guys think? I'd imagine I'd be at 300hp at that point. 350 after boost goes to 18 - 19..? |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins Yea I have prety much same stuff as yours and S300 running it. I'm just confused why I'm only getting 250ish. I don't really know if I rebuild that turbo and had full 3" from turbo out will give me 50 hp. Because that should be very close if not at a 300whp setup. What's wrong with the turbo? Have the seals failed on it? |
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Originally Posted By: hondacivicnut Originally Posted By: Hobkins Yea I have prety much same stuff as yours and S300 running it. I'm just confused why I'm only getting 250ish. I don't really know if I rebuild that turbo and had full 3" from turbo out will give me 50 hp. Because that should be very close if not at a 300whp setup. What's wrong with the turbo? Have the seals failed on it? The tuner I took it to said the bearings are going out. Thus taking it longer to spool then it really should? |
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Yea, funked bearings will decrease power output a little, depending, but if they free spin w/your fingers, then I wouldn't think thats the main issue...hard to say b/c I can't see it. Unless he did some testing, or looked the turbo over, his "excuse" is b.s. On your setup, you should be making no less than 300whp, w/500whp being your max for reliability on a GOOD tune, which I don't think you are getting imo. 3" exhaust is a MUST on all turbo apps imo. |
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Originally Posted By: SiAdam Yea, funked bearings will decrease power output a little, depending, but if they free spin w/your fingers, then I wouldn't think thats the main issue...hard to say b/c I can't see it. Unless he did some testing, or looked the turbo over, his "excuse" is b.s. I agree |
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I agree also. They say they are best in areas of Hondata and are a big tuning place so I figured they were right. But I don't know for sure. I start spooling near 4200 and hit full boost by 6400 maybe? If that tells you anything. |
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You can't build a better forum than this. |
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Originally Posted By: SiAdam Yea, funked bearings will decrease power output a little, depending, but if they free spin w/your fingers, then I wouldn't think thats the main issue...hard to say b/c I can't see it. Unless he did some testing, or looked the turbo over, his "excuse" is b.s. On your setup, you should be making no less than 300whp, w/500whp being your max for reliability on a GOOD tune, which I don't think you are getting imo. 3" exhaust is a MUST on all turbo apps imo. So do you think it's a bad tune which is causing me this power loss? I mean we took it to one of the few places that seemed real. Mostly because they knew Hondata and others very well. I can see a 2.5" pipe limiting my power output but I should still atleast be in 270s+ . I've seen a few people with very similiar setups as me with 2.5" pipes running very near 300hp. Dunno what's wrong. |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins I agree also. They say they are best in areas of Hondata and are a big tuning place so I figured they were right. But I don't know for sure. I start spooling near 4200 and hit full boost by 6400 maybe? If that tells you anything. What turbo again ? If it's a "smaller" turbo then you have problems somewhere. It could be a turbo issue, or a big boost leak...but somethings up. /edit - as stated earlier in this post, you aren't going to make good power on 2.5" piping. 3" or go home. |
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Originally Posted By: SiAdam Originally Posted By: Hobkins I agree also. They say they are best in areas of Hondata and are a big tuning place so I figured they were right. But I don't know for sure. I start spooling near 4200 and hit full boost by 6400 maybe? If that tells you anything. What turbo again ? If it's a "smaller" turbo then you have problems somewhere. It could be a turbo issue, or a big boost leak...but somethings up. /edit - as stated earlier in this post, you aren't going to make good power on 2.5" piping. 3" or go home. T3/T4 Turbonetics 57 trim .63 A/R Not a small one but not a big one either. If I had boost leak then it wouldn't let me get up to my full boost at 11 psi right? It does get all the way up to 11. And I understand that I need 3" but as I said earlier other people's setups are very close to mine with much more power. I'd rather solve this problem and get the right expected power out of it then go throw more money into upgrades that I put onto a tweaked setup. |
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Does it hold 11psi at full boost and doesnt drop? damn...thats a low #s for sure. not crazy low but should be around 270s easy. |
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On 11psi I was over 300, 15lbs netted me like 330/350whp iirc. |
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Hits 11 psi as I said near 6200 and holds till I let off. So I don't really know. If I find my dyno sheet I'll get a pic up for you guys. EDIT: I found my dyno sheets but still waiting for the pics to get to my email. Should have the pics up shortly. |
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I don't know how to read these as well as most of you so tell me what you think. |
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Good questions, I'll happily try to answer. |
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Originally Posted By: danova Good questions, I'll happily try to answer. oK great... Answer? |
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Catless & go 3' straight through should gain you 20-30whp. |
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Good time to check in, Well since I boosted the car it's been running for maybe a whole 3 months. Unfortunetly I've ran into my biggest problem yet, started hearing a tiny almost grinding noise every few minutes. I got the car home and now have finally had time to look at it, we've discovered the tranny had leaked out all its oil, we filled it back up and test drove and it was leaking quite a bit. We checked the tranny oil again only to find little metal peices coming out of the tranny. Well at this point we've pulled the tranny out and sure enough there's something that went horribly wrong inside. We don't know what has gotten shredded up, hopefully not the whole gearing but whatever did cut one of the seals which gave us the leak. My father thinks it was the LSD but we haven't cracked open the tranny yet. I'm to scared to see what I'll find. |
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You better off finding a used tranny. Rebuilding will be similiar in $$$. Good luck tho...and try not to break the bank on your hobby tho! ; - ) |
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Yea I've been looking around for a used tranny. I really need a new lsd also as I'm getting serious to get this car back up and running reliably with 300whp. I'm leaning towards we installed the lsd wrong which fk'd it up so I will most likely rebuy another obx lsd and take the transmission down to a transmission shop to get it done right. I pray to God nothing goes wrong with this OBX this time. I swear we put that LSD in right, we followed step by step with a youtube video that a h-t member posted and it went in so right. New used tranny - $500 - $800 Another OBX LSD - $400 Turbo Rebuild - $200 Minimal (shop quoted me earlier today) Full 3" exhaust - $400 - $600? Really I have no idea what they are going to charge me but that's what I've heard. Retune - $600 Total - $2,100 at best. *Long drawn out sigh* |
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Go with the Thermo 3'. Straight design and comes read to bolt on. |
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Wait so I'm confused, is that an exhaust I can install myself? |
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You'll have to get a custom DP and a cat. I dont have a cat. so it was just DP. |
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So that's just a straight 3" pipe that fits an 00 civic si? |
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Possible great news, we pulled apart the tranny to find a crap ton of metal fragments all over the tranny but it's possible that it was just part of the bearings that some shop pressed on. Crossing our fingers it wasnt the lsd itself. |
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Ok I've decided to fix it the right way this time. Honda dealership techs were very helpful and told us the only thing that they thought was messed up were the bearings. But we were also told that it's possible some of the small metal shards could have ended up in the gear trees oil passage ways. So we decided to bite the bullet and let honda deal with the tranny, they cleaned it all out and checked it all out then reinstalled the obx lsd the right way with the bearings pressed on the right way. We now have the tranny fully done and put back together. Now onto a longer story. *takes deep breath* My father was down in Pheonix searching for a clutch plate and was directed from one performance shop to another until he ended up walking into one of Full-Race's manufactoring shops (a company he hadn't heard of). Well after talking to one of the guys up front about my setup the guy went back and got the owner. He said they ended up talking about what I should do with my turbo setup for over an hour and got lots of info straight from the top guys there. Cutting to the chase after ALOT of talking to them personally and getting incredible discouts, I just now ended up walking out of there with ... A/C Ramhorn New Tial 44mm W/ 10 psi spring 3" Downpipe 3" Exhaust Full-race products arent the cheapest stuff we all know but with the level of customer service and quality items I simply couldn't say no. And it's incredibly likely I will be back in there soon looking for more parts. I did have to buy a new wastegate as mine was a generic off brand with a different flange then on my new Ramhorn, but it's nice to have a real tial wg now. Great staff + incredible products = me broke I only have the Ramhorn now as they are making my downpipe now and waiting on the Tial WG and exhaust to ship in from their Cali shop. I'm super excited to get this civic back and on the road as it's way past over due. Let me know what you think. |
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hobkin's, how old are you man? |
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It sounds like I'm young doesn't it lol. I'm 19. |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins It sounds like I'm young doesn't it lol. I'm 19. Dude that is young, lol. |
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Lol yea I guess. |
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Originally Posted By: SiAdam Originally Posted By: Hobkins It sounds like I'm young doesn't it lol. I'm 19. Dude that is young, lol. very young at that age. |
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Got retuned last Saturday after a few upgrades on the car at Locash in Phoenix. Parts in red are my new upgrades since last tune. Stock B16A2 Block bored .20 over SRP 9.1:1 Pistons Eagle H Beam rods All seals and gaskets are OEM Honda. GSR Cams Megan Cam Gears Clutch Masters Stage 3 Turbonetics t3/t4 .57 trim .63a/r (Bad Bearings) ---> Turbonetics t3/t4 .57 trim .63 a/r (Brand New) Blox log manifold ---> Full Race A/C Ramhorn Cheapo Wastegate 11 PSI Spring ---> 38mm Tial Wastegate 10 PSI spring Greddy Bov RC 550cc injectors 2.5" Downpipe ---> 3” Full Race Downpipe 2.5" Exhaust W/ Catalytic Converter ---> 3” Thermal Research and Development Exhaust no Catalytic Converter Drag i/c 6.5” height Hondata S300 Stock Radiator Fan ---> 13" Spal Puller Radiator Fan Stock Condensor Fan ---> 13" Spal Puller Condensor Fan Car more then a year ago got 251 whp / 191 tq. Locash got car to pull 277 whp / 200 tq with new upgrades. It was around 110 degrees in Phoenix so VERY hot day. Locash also said it was only running at 9 psi because we moved the wastegate vacuum line down to the charge pipe before the intercooler inlet. So we may may the vacuum line back to where we had the first time to get the extra psi. I would have loved to see a hard copy dyno sheet of 300whp. Hard to shallow the fact that I put 3k into the car for 26 whp even though I know it has gained more then that. I'm having huge regrets I didn't throw a 12 - 13 psi spring in, still don't know what I was thinking when I decided to lower the spring on second wastegate. I'm still at a point where I think my numbers are quite low... even for 9 psi / 110 degrees. Going through these B16 Turbo Setups . |
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Why did you stop at only 9 psi? I would move the w/g reference back to the intake manifold for one. Also, keep in mine, my rods/piston b16a2 made 450-500whp on 21-25lbs for almost 4 yrs. Driving April-October each year. |
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We are moving the w/g line back up to the manifold. Like I said I really wish I had a 13 psi spring in it now w/ boost controller but now we just got tuned, I can't bring myself to paying another $450 just to raise 4 psi or so... even though I want to very bad. The small spring was surely a mistake. |
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Still can't drive the car as these poor civics have such a ridiculous theft rate. Especially here in phoenix az .Waiting on an alarm system ... can't wait to drive it even if its only 270 whp aha . |
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Originally Posted By: Hobkins We are moving the w/g line back up to the manifold. Like I said I really wish I had a 13 psi spring in it now w/ boost controller but now we just got tuned, I can't bring myself to paying another $450 just to raise 4 psi or so... even though I want to very bad. The small spring was surely a mistake. You spent 3k for a few whp, whats another 450lol. You can get a manual boost controller if you don't want to spend the coin, be had for less than 60 bucks, even make a generic one for a few bucks, lol. |
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Noo don't pressure me . That car will be sitting for another 6 months if I decide to up some other things . |
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Yea in arizona the ram horn is not an option lol. |
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