#614464 - 10/28/06 02:58 PM
Re: STI > Z06
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normaspirated
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/04/99
Posts: 22031
Loc: Nevada
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Call me crazy, but I thought the z06 would murder all those cars on the straight. The s204 sti makes "only" 320 bhp, and definitely weighs more than a c6 z06 (I think?).
The z06 driver was shaving points lol blue chips 
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#614465 - 10/28/06 03:08 PM
Re: STI > Z06
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EngineNoO9
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 20610
Loc: VA
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To me it doesn't seem like the z06 driver was pushing very hard...
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#614466 - 10/28/06 05:31 PM
Re: STI > Z06
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7093
Loc: E.E.B.
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Could the Z06 be driven any fucking slower? WTF! That thing outruns F430 and 997Turbo, but can't keep up with the STi? What a load of BS
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'94 Mustang GT Acceleration....  -------+--  Handling......... -------+-- Speed............ ------+---
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#614467 - 10/28/06 05:37 PM
Re: STI > Z06
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FWDcar
Major Member
Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 1357
Loc: Cottage Grove, MN
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Yeah, I agree, the Zo6 didn't seem to be pushing it at all. And I'm by no means a Zo6 nutswinger
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2004 Pontiac GTO 6speed (SOLD, Stupid me!)
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#614470 - 10/28/06 05:45 PM
Re: STI > Z06
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ReplicaR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7093
Loc: E.E.B.
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well, R34 is that 400hp Z-Tune package, which considering it's hefty weight, still nowhere near enough to keep up with Z06. I don't know what the deal with STi is. You better believe that all the ricedm faggots will think that STi > *, after watching this vid. I saw a race at the street races just last weekend, where a slightly modded STi ran a regular C6 with catback. From about 30 to 130 or so C6 put like 5 cars on STi.
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'94 Mustang GT Acceleration.... -------+-- Handling......... -------+-- Speed............ ------+---
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#614471 - 10/28/06 06:06 PM
Re: STI > Z06
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qksl2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 3279
Loc: So-Cal
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The only time I saw the z06 ever excercise its power and pull on the sti was on the last part of the straightaway on the last lap. Other than that, it pussyfooted around. In my experience, though, a 400hp skyline is formidable, on the track or street. I hate heavy, complex cars, but I was amazed by how fast they really can be.
That lambo looked to be an understeering pig, though it sure sounded nice!
Ian
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#614474 - 10/28/06 08:01 PM
Re: STI > Z06
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XT6Wagon
Moderator
Registered: 10/30/99
Posts: 7265
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Its a tight and nasty course, and balance makes all the difference in the world. Usualy the normal STi's don't do well because of understeer.
My guess is that the STi picked up ALOT of time compared to the non S204 version in that... It has 15% more power. Its very agressive in the suspension tuning. The rear upper and lower "tie bars" from yamaha are supposed to be "magic" in their effectiveness with the strange damper arrangement. etc. In short the S204 is basicly the 22B of its year. Just less noticable since they couldn't go wider.
And I'm sure the Z06 got hozed by a driver who isn't familar with it, a track its not suited too, and a surface that is slicker than shit.
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#614475 - 10/28/06 08:34 PM
Re: STI > Z06
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aerosaaber
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 06/29/02
Posts: 16004
Loc: Pittsfield, MA
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guy in the vette sucked ballsacks
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2006 Subaru WRX Wagon (I'm back on boost!) 2001 Subaru Legacy Outback Wagon Limited (sold) 1994 Saab 9000 Aero (gone) http://www.saabrally.com
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#614478 - 10/29/06 01:11 PM
Re: STI > Z06
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XT6Wagon
Moderator
Registered: 10/30/99
Posts: 7265
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which won't help much as the Z06 WAS faster than the S204, its just that the S204 was just fast enough to keep the Z06 from passing when it had the long straight.
Oh and you might notice that the S204 came in dead last in the timetrials part.
_________________________
White 04 Impreza with factory foglamp covers
[Email]11.893@112.13mph[/Email]
on Stock tires
http://www.ej255.net
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#614480 - 10/29/06 06:45 PM
Re: STI > Z06
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cliff st-clair
Post Master Sr
Registered: 01/03/00
Posts: 6376
Loc: Queens Village, NY
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That course just plain doesn't favor the Z06. Just too few straights so it couldn't really stretch its legs.
But instead of bitching and moaning about the driving, nybody else noticed how long the Z06 gears are? WTF, I know it has tons of torque and doesn't need short gearing, but the gearing is ridiculously tall. Looks like 3rd can do what? 110mph? I don't think he ever got into 4th the whole course. lol
When driving around a course this tight you need good engine braking and therefore more gears, which give you extra control.
The Z06 just wasn't at home. No doubt it is the fastest car in a straight line in that group, but even the porky Lambo's time attack was faster. I'd hate to see what an F430 would do to the Yankee pride on that course.
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#614482 - 10/29/06 09:05 PM
Re: STI > Z06
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cliff st-clair
Post Master Sr
Registered: 01/03/00
Posts: 6376
Loc: Queens Village, NY
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The zo6 is faster in a straight line, that's the bottom line, but there has been at least one course where it reportedly got beat by the F430. I believe it was either Road and Track or Motor trend that had the article and it's not more than a couple of months old. I just can't remember which one right now...
My point is, the Z06 is not going to be comfortable on medium speed tracks without the ability to use all of those long ass gears. Hence the reason why it can get owned by cars with considerably less power on such tight courses.
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03' 350z
04' Mazda 3 s
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#614486 - 10/29/06 10:06 PM
Re: STI > Z06
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Nathan
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 21391
Loc: Roedyelin
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Quote:
cliff, my red car will run ~124 in third :eek:
Mike is right on the power thing. Drivers get used to just rolling into the throttle until they hit the floor coming off a turn when driving lower powered (or AWD) cars, and a high hp RWD car catches them offguard.
I think this is only partially true. The Ford GT and Viper are compared to the Z06 in a lot of these tests and every single one have said that both the GT and Viper are much more predictable and easier to drive at the limit on a track. The Z06 is very twitchy. Both the GT and the Viper are at least as powerful as the Z06 (and the GT is faster around many tracks) so an overabundance of power isn't the issue.
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#614487 - 10/30/06 12:03 AM
Re: STI > Z06
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cliff st-clair
Post Master Sr
Registered: 01/03/00
Posts: 6376
Loc: Queens Village, NY
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Quote:
The Z06 works just fine on any course, even short and medium ones. Driving it, I'd say it is actually superior to most vehicles. It's definitely got an edge on the 997 Turbo and F430. It's entry speeds are just retarded through almost any section, and it has a CLEAR advantage pulling out.
The thing is, you have to be ready to deal with the power, which it seems the driver had a problem with. It feels like it wants to blow itself out of a turn, but it will stick hard.
Yeah that's why it occasionally gets its ass handed to it by cars with less horsepower and more weight. Hmmm...
Here it is, an article from the September issue of Road and Track, where the F430 basically mopped the floor with the Z06, lapping a relatively short course about 2 seconds faster than the Corvette. Ouch.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=3768
But like I said, when the track gets faster and the Z06 gets to stretch its legs it's much faster than the Ferrari, but when a lot of transitions and braking need to be made, the Ferrari so far has proven to be better.
Hell, I understand most of you think the Z06 is this unbeatable force that no stock car could compete with, (and I agree it is a formidable machine especially considering the price) but as evidenced by the video on this thread and articles like this one, it's pretty obvious it's not perfect and can still lose when the conditions are not that favorable, even though it is still fast as hell overall.
That's all I'm saying.
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#614488 - 10/30/06 12:28 AM
Re: STI > Z06
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MikeYOX
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/03/00
Posts: 7607
Loc: West Boemfugk, Egypt
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No car is unbeatable, and the person at the wheel will greatly determine the results. I can name you about 5 matchups just off of the top of my head where a completely inferior vehicle defeated a technically superior one, but it doesn't add up to much.
Some driver's come off the Z06 saying that it's the stickest and best manouvering machine they have ever driven, and then you have drivers who come off whining about a lack of steering feel and how it feels heavier than it actually is, and poor visibility and things like that. Do you think both of those drivers are going to turn the same lap times? Not really.
Some people just don't understand how you drive a car that weighs 3100 lbs. and more low end and midrange torque than most pickup trucks. On shorter tracks, drivers tend to take it easier around the turns than they would another car for fear of losing the rear end. Twitchy? Yes. Again, 3100 lbs, RWD, 500 hp, 475 lb/ft of torque available at a relatively low rpm. It's a car that requires greater driver capability and attention, and if you don't give it that or don't have it, you will get chewed up in it.
Shorter, twistier tracks result in the losses to technically inferior competition due to driver flaws. High speed track losses to technically inferior competition are where the technical abilities of the Z06 are faulted. It lacks the aerodynamic development and equipment of alot of the exotics out there are and the gap begins to close. But even then the pure power/weight still usually allows it to take the top position, combined with stupid good handling.
It reminds me alot of the Esprit in that respect. Back when it and the F355 were in heavy competition many drivers observed while while the Esprit was a terrible car to drive, a skilled driver could easily produce faster times from it.
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#614489 - 10/30/06 12:53 AM
Re: STI > Z06
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qksl2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 3279
Loc: So-Cal
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We had a long ass thread about this before. In my test drives of the c6 compared to an evo, or other lower powered all wheel drive cars, along with dan and a few others, we all felt like they were faster and quicker through tight sections and low speeds, but that the z06 was king at high speeds. Others argued that we simply fail at driving, and that a good driver is faster in a c6 at any speed. Its something that is an opinion that none of us will change, really.
Ian
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#614490 - 10/30/06 08:55 AM
Re: STI > Z06
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Nathan
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 21391
Loc: Roedyelin
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Quote:
Again, 3100 lbs, RWD, 500 hp, 475 lb/ft of torque available at a relatively low rpm. It's a car that requires greater driver capability and attention, and if you don't give it that or don't have it, you will get chewed up in it.
Again, partially true, but why is this so when cars with similar power/weight (Viper, Ford GT) are considered much easier to drive AND faster (the GT anyway).
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#614492 - 10/30/06 10:39 AM
Re: STI > Z06
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Nathan
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 21391
Loc: Roedyelin
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Quote:
Since when was the Viper considered "easy to drive"?
Every review I've read of the new generation has mentioned that it is. Much more so than the Z06.
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#614494 - 10/30/06 01:10 PM
Re: STI > Z06
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Nathan
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 21391
Loc: Roedyelin
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Quote:
I don't read car mags anymore so cannot comment.
FWIW most "race cars" are anything but easy to drive.
A race car can be a good race car and still be set up to be predcitable and relatively easy to drive. Driving any high powered car at 10/10ths on the ragged edge will always be somewhat challenging, but there's nothing wrong with it being predictable at the same time.
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#614497 - 10/30/06 05:03 PM
Re: STI > Z06
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cliff st-clair
Post Master Sr
Registered: 01/03/00
Posts: 6376
Loc: Queens Village, NY
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No, i'ts not that the guy in the Vette is shifting nice and slow, it's just that he rarely has to shift at all. Like i said, not once in the video did he ever get ouf of third gear. He can go well over 100mph in third gear, that's why. He was in second almost the entire time.
That'ss why it seems slow on video, plus it's not particularly loud. Also with the powerband of the LS7 it's not going to feel particularly fast. It's a linear constant pull; y'know, the Ellis way...
Judging from what the specs and what I've seen so far from the Z06 I don't think it is twitchy or nervous at all. I think most of the criticism it receives about its handling is due to the fact it just isn't all that connected to the road or feel particularly confident inspiring. And I believe it's partly due to its blaze approach on performance.
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#614498 - 10/30/06 11:20 PM
Re: STI > Z06
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MikeYOX
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/03/00
Posts: 7607
Loc: West Boemfugk, Egypt
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Quote:
We had a long ass thread about this before. In my test drives of the c6 compared to an evo, or other lower powered all wheel drive cars, along with dan and a few others, we all felt like they were faster and quicker through tight sections and low speeds, but that the z06 was king at high speeds. Others argued that we simply fail at driving, and that a good driver is faster in a c6 at any speed. Its something that is an opinion that none of us will change, really.
Ian
I'm just making an observation. If you want the proof, just put down the mags and go watch some races on low speed courses and watch the Z06 tear the asses of just about anything. This situation of the Z06 being only good on high speed tracks doesn't exist outside of the mags. Ask any Z06 racer if he feels he has a disadvantage on a low speed track.
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#614499 - 10/30/06 11:24 PM
Re: STI > Z06
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MikeYOX
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/03/00
Posts: 7607
Loc: West Boemfugk, Egypt
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Quote:
Quote:
Again, 3100 lbs, RWD, 500 hp, 475 lb/ft of torque available at a relatively low rpm. It's a car that requires greater driver capability and attention, and if you don't give it that or don't have it, you will get chewed up in it.
Again, partially true, but why is this so when cars with similar power/weight (Viper, Ford GT) are considered much easier to drive AND faster (the GT anyway).
Much easier? Exaggerations. They're heavier cars and naturally feel more locked in, but other than that, there is nothing much easier to drive about either car.
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#614501 - 10/31/06 12:23 AM
Re: STI > Z06
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Nathan
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 21391
Loc: Roedyelin
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Again, 3100 lbs, RWD, 500 hp, 475 lb/ft of torque available at a relatively low rpm. It's a car that requires greater driver capability and attention, and if you don't give it that or don't have it, you will get chewed up in it.
Again, partially true, but why is this so when cars with similar power/weight (Viper, Ford GT) are considered much easier to drive AND faster (the GT anyway).
Much easier? Exaggerations. They're heavier cars and naturally feel more locked in, but other than that, there is nothing much easier to drive about either car.
Every racetrack review of those 3 cars I've read has contradicted what you just said. 
Every time a car mag has tested the Z06 on a track, that I've read, they've commented that it's tail-happy and nervous at the limit while the Viper and GT are planted. Of course the Z06 is incredibly quick, but I don't get why so many people refuse to accept that it has any flaws whatsoever.
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