#1766406 - 08/19/07 01:46 PM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: ResisterGo]
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Impulsive
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/28/99
Posts: 82402
Loc: Edmonton
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LTD FTW. But either way, even if you own an STI, I'm sure you can swap trunk lids with a WRX owner and maybe even pocket some cash from the deal. FMIC and swap the hood (or get the scoop delete).
Another option is to get a 2.5 WRX as they still have as strong of an engine, and either do a 6 speed swap (3k on a budget) or PPG gears which are about the same IIRC. According to the PPG suppliers, they have never had a gear set fail.
The STi is more than worth it though for the better trans, the better LSD's, the R180 rear, HID's, better brakes, suspension etc. The only issue with the STi IMO, is the pistons are fairly fragile. When I cracked mine, my post on NASIOC had a lot of people saying "welcome to the club". I've heard the 07's are really bad because Subaru has them running Stoich until 4000 rpm or something and there seems to be a lot of stockers letting go and even things like a turboback are causing havoc.
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#1766557 - 08/19/07 02:28 PM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: beerslurpy]
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jsmonet
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 155898
Loc: So. Cali
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if you're looking for more than 450whp consistently, then yes you have to swap the pistons.
mech. differences:
-suspension geometry
-much better trans
-front lsd, better center diff, better/stronger rear diff
-bigger brakes, better calipers
-bigger IC
-bigger turbo
-manifold differences making the sti the better choice
-better brake force distribution
you're worried about the spoiler? jesus fuck that's the stupidest gripe. come on now, how hard is it to swap a trunk?
it's not.
also, if you ever really feel like running it on a road course,you'll want to throw that spoiler back on.
the lgt is not, contrary to what lgt owners love to try to say, an sti with a smaller turbo. the lgt is very much just a wrx with a slightly bigger turbo and nicer interior, though.
you can tune a relatively stock lgt to 300hp (crank), but that won't make it perform on par with an sti.
go read the various forums for actual issues.
also, the first run of the forester xt has the sti-ra 5spd in it. the box is geared way short, but it is tough as hell. the 5spd lacks dccd, but that's not typically an issue for people. meh on trying to make an lgt a sleeper though
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#1767580 - 08/19/07 09:33 PM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: beerslurpy]
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Chris92Sc2
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/21/00
Posts: 13705
Loc: MI USA
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Really depends on your goals, There are alot of LGT specific big turbos available and running a FMIC opens up the STI style options. The STI is much more of a racer than the LGT though. Obvioulsly it was designed to perform mch better.
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#1767699 - 08/19/07 10:12 PM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: jsmonet]
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neonmike22
Post Master Sr
Registered: 11/04/00
Posts: 3150
Loc: Nashville, TN
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the lgt is not, contrary to what lgt owners love to try to say, an sti with a smaller turbo. the lgt is very much just a wrx with a slightly bigger turbo and nicer interior, though.
I'm assuming we're talking engine and such since the LGT's multilink rear ought to roxor.
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'03 Civic Hybrid
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#1768805 - 08/20/07 09:46 AM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: neonmike22]
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Chris92Sc2
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/21/00
Posts: 13705
Loc: MI USA
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But the rest of the suspension is seriously WEAK and the tires suck balls.
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#1769040 - 08/20/07 11:16 AM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: Chris92Sc2]
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Mr. Knowitall.
**banned**
Post Master Sr
Registered: 06/25/07
Posts: 3410
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But the rest of the suspension is seriously WEAK and the tires suck balls.
Tires are not a wear item.
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#1769548 - 08/20/07 01:22 PM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: neonmike22]
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Dan Smith
Post Master
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 2403
Loc: Land of Ahs
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[quote=jsmonet]the lgt is not, contrary to what lgt owners love to try to say, an sti with a smaller turbo. the lgt is very much just a wrx with a slightly bigger turbo and nicer interior, though.
I think alot people make that comparison because for most the LGT is more than they can handle anyways as far as handling, thereby they never experience the difference since it's at a level beyond their capabilities. Sure I would have a hard time getting my LGT up to the STi in handling terms, but in a straight line which is also important the diffence is not as great. They still do share a very similar engine setup that allows similar numbers and the spec-b tranny is an almost version of the STi less the DCCD as far as I've seen. I see it sort of like the LSx family of engines. Sure the newer LS's are better as far as output, but that does not make the LS1 any less of a great engine.
As far as the 07's, I have a Spec B that I guess I'll need to monitor a little closer now that it seems everybody is fretting over the A/F ratios. I wasn't aware the ECU could output that to my reader/logger dealio, maybe mine doesn't and the ECU explorer does because that one seems to do that. However, I do have a catback which makes me glad I'm waiting for the Accessport before going TBE and all the other fun stuff. There are a few guys loaded up already with headers, TBE and all that without tuning, which I would think would be much worse what with running 14:1 A/F at 4k and down. Obviously Subaru is trying a little too hard to gain some MPG's and here I thought the 3 (Count em, 3), MPG gauges was enough.
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#1771228 - 08/20/07 08:01 PM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: beerslurpy]
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allan r
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 15724
Loc: the land of cheese
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I like the sti mechanically, but I hate the faggoty rear wing and how they tried to make the car appeal to 18 year olds with rich parents.
18yr old rich assholes might like the STI, but i do not think subaru's intent is to market the car to them. i mean there's the "civic nation" and scion lifestylez commercials and ads lol, those definitely were aimed at the ricer in you, but wrx commercials were always more adult with the car driving in dirt and rain, and talking about crash safety stuff.
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#1771908 - 08/20/07 11:03 PM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: Impulsive]
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Dan Smith
Post Master
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 2403
Loc: Land of Ahs
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Are LGT people concerned about AFR's as well? I just remember a few weeks back on NASIOC, there was a post about STi's and several people with engines that popped when stock or with an exhaust and fairly low mileage.
They seem to concerned about it in the 07's. I haven't heard of any blown engines, but most of the LGT guys take it pretty easy when it comes to mods, so I don't know.
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#1775628 - 08/21/07 09:54 PM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: jsmonet]
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neonmike22
Post Master Sr
Registered: 11/04/00
Posts: 3150
Loc: Nashville, TN
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as far as the rear suspension on the lgt: great. yes. and then? you're still missing some key components there. the lgt is a nice platform. the sti is simply better.
Both cars stock and I totally agree.
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'03 Civic Hybrid
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#1777283 - 08/22/07 11:04 AM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: jsmonet]
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Mr. Knowitall.
**banned**
Post Master Sr
Registered: 06/25/07
Posts: 3410
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all subaru owners bitch and moan about afr's. if you swap your tires, they want you to reset your ecu. yeah...
as far as the rear suspension on the lgt: great. yes. and then? you're still missing some key components there. the lgt is a nice platform. the sti is simply better.
i'll say it again: if you're so fucking gaybagged over the rear spoiler, just buy a fucking trunk and put it on. it's really not that hard. again, you'll want to put the stocker back on if you track the car because that shit's functional.
Dude, even if you don't want a car with an open header you better take that exhaust off if you go to the track. Cause shits faster with no exhaust.
STFU racerboy. Go buy some 1000 dollar airbox.
Edited by Mr. Knowitall. (08/22/07 11:04 AM)
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#1778858 - 08/22/07 04:55 PM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: jsmonet]
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Dan Smith
Post Master
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 2403
Loc: Land of Ahs
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all subaru owners bitch and moan about afr's. if you swap your tires, they want you to reset your ecu. yeah...
as far as the rear suspension on the lgt: great. yes. and then? you're still missing some key components there. the lgt is a nice platform. the sti is simply better.
i'll say it again: if you're so fucking gaybagged over the rear spoiler, just buy a fucking trunk and put it on. it's really not that hard. again, you'll want to put the stocker back on if you track the car because that shit's functional.
I follow you to a point, but 14:1 is bad. Do you disagree with that, because I've never seen where that high of an AFR is a good thing with detonation unfriendly Subies.
On different note, at what speed is the STi wing functional? I think all the hollabaloo about the wing on STi's is that the fanboys act like it's the only thing keeping their "race cars for the road" from spinning out in corners. Some act like it's a fucking wing off of a champ car or something, when it's more like an everyday wing on a fast car.
The whole STi vs LGT comparison really is about as stupid as they get. One's a car that sacrifices everything for a little more speed and handling, while the other is a best compromise between comfortable and sporty. They do use almost the same parts in the engine and suspension is only a swap away from said STi, so the difference is there but not insurmountable. It's really all about how you want to look and what you want out of your ride a the end of the day that should drive your opinion.
Edited by Dan Smith (08/22/07 04:56 PM)
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#1779045 - 08/22/07 05:36 PM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: Dan Smith]
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jsmonet
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 155898
Loc: So. Cali
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the wing provides noticeable downforce at 60mph. the rake of the lower section is pretty severe.
also, there's just too much money to be spent on the lgt. if you have a big budget and really just want that body style car, go for it. what really makes the sti for me is the drivetrain. brakes and turbos are easy, yet stupendously expensive, to upgrade, but people keep forgetting about the drivetrain itself.
i keep saying it, and saying it, but lgt owners just don't want to admit it: having front lsd is a big fucking deal. all 3 diffs make a big difference, but the biggest of them all is the front lsd. you can get a 6spd in the lgt spec b, but most people aren't buying that. I'll stick with my gearbox, thanks.
once you start talking about modding, you bring up a CLASSIC SvA bad argument. back in the day it was all about saying "for 5 grand imma put a drag(brand) turbo kit on my b16 and fucking SCHMOKE yer f-body". dumb argument since you could have gotten any number of cheaper cars with twice the cylinders, with plenty of money leftover for blowers, two-stage n2o, and a host of replacement rear ends/axles/driveshafts as you click off 11's. the "but i can mod it" argument should not be entered into because people keep forgetting that you can, and will, mod the other car as well.
figure you can really do up the sti's suspension for about... oh... 2600 dollars tops. that's budgeting a LOT for coilovers, btw. I'm looking at
230?? - 31.75mm front sway. pricing isn't yet released, but they're saying it'll be on par with the whiteline big bar, only this will include endlinks (rod ends, but who cares as long as it works well)
1900 - coilovers. racecompengineering had KW work some shit for them, i believe, to make their tarmac2 coilovers. despite the name, they seem to work fantastically. other options in the price range: kw var. 3, possibly prodrive rb320...if they EVER release those, cusco, whiteline..
30~??? - front strut tower brace. i'm using a knockoff "sti" (think pink ends) bar i got for 20 bucks off ebay. once you're on coilovers, your windshield will start popping over uneven ground. eek...flex. c'est la vie. add a damn bar. it takes 10 minutes, cheating by using an air gun to buzz off the strut tower bolts.
that's it. and it remains pretty much the same for the lgt's. sure you can add in shit like adjustable rear control arms, ALK's, etc etc etc, but what i mentioned will make either car, sti or lgt, substantially more fun, and more able to maintain momentum in those odd occurances when you have to turn the wheel.
HOLY SHIT THAT'S LONG WINDED!
the point? it'll cost you about the same to really liven up either car. doing it to the lgt will get you a little quicker than the stock sti. doing that to the sti will get you a lotta bit quicker than the modded lgt.
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#1779688 - 08/22/07 08:06 PM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: jsmonet]
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Dan Smith
Post Master
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 2403
Loc: Land of Ahs
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Dude, I totally feel like an idiot because I just bragged about a front LSD I don't have or don't have yet. It does have the almost STi 6 speed. Mine will never be an STi equal, but I hope it to be it's best friend with a small limp. The LGT was ever so slightly bigger all over which I needed, but I thought extremely long and hard about the STi. If the Limited had come out around the same time as the Spec B, I might have swayed to the other side.
As far as the old school SVA arguments, I remember then distinctly as I was here to witness the asshattery. Oh those were the days! We've got too many knowledgable people on here nowadays, but then it was something. Although I remember the claims to be an even more ludicrous 3k for this F-Body destroying econobox on steroids. Either way it's hilarious.
Edited by Dan Smith (08/22/07 08:10 PM)
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#1779723 - 08/22/07 08:14 PM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: Dan Smith]
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Dan Smith
Post Master
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 2403
Loc: Land of Ahs
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Speaking of aqcuiring an LSD, does anyone know what the LGT has going for front diffs?
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#1782789 - 08/23/07 02:16 PM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: jsmonet]
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allan r
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 15724
Loc: the land of cheese
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the wing provides noticeable downforce at 60mph. the rake of the lower section is pretty severe.
i keep saying it, and saying it, but lgt owners just don't want to admit it: having front lsd is a big fucking deal. all 3 diffs make a big difference, but the biggest of them all is the front lsd. you can get a 6spd in the lgt spec b, but most people aren't buying that. I'll stick with my gearbox, thanks.
i thought the wing came into effect more like 90mph? that may be wrong; either way i believe i've read info right from subaru on its effectiveness. actually think motor trend did some actual aero tests on the wing once (or was that on the evo?)
either way, i would really enjoy a front LSD in my car. maybe someday. i can imagine it would take a complete trans teardown to get one in there, though?
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#1784790 - 08/23/07 11:35 PM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: jsmonet]
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Chris92Sc2
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/21/00
Posts: 13705
Loc: MI USA
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there are usually options from japan, since the legacy has had a good following there for quite some time. http://www.japanparts.com -> look for legacy drivetrain goods. the lgt is still far more capable than most of its competition. i just think people are a little off in the head if they think that by buying an lgt they're getting an sti minus 50-ish hp...which is what most of sva seems to think.
Thats what I was trying to point out and I got a response like "tires aren't wea items". LOL The LGT is good at being what its for but some owners have that line of thought you just mentioned.
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#1788682 - 08/25/07 01:16 AM
Re: differences between legacy GT and WRX Sti?
[Re: allan r]
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jsmonet
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 155898
Loc: So. Cali
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the wing provides noticeable downforce at 60mph. the rake of the lower section is pretty severe.
i thought the wing came into effect more like 90mph? that may be wrong; either way i believe i've read info right from subaru on its effectiveness. actually think motor trend did some actual aero tests on the wing once (or was that on the evo?) either way, i would really enjoy a front LSD in my car. maybe someday. i can imagine it would take a complete trans teardown to get one in there, though?
i've seen the 60mph figure many times. looking at the design, i can see that being accurate.
@ the guy saying buy an evo: that's probably the one car LESS reliable than an abused sti  also, it's all preference. i love some things about the evos, but HATE others. it sucks that the 6spd is the weak trans, and that when i was looking, the 5spd came with an open front diff. dollar for dollar, considering what i was going to do to the car, the sti made more sense. also, my wagon saved my life in a head-on collision months prior, so i was biased a bit 
back on track: the front lsd
i'd be tempted to buy a complete, used, beefier transmission that already has a front diff. adding lsd to your current trans would, as you thought, require opening up and digging around your trans. it's not THAT big of a deal for a decent shop, but you're looking at a good deal of labor in that price tag.
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