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#5257130 - 12/20/10 08:01 PM Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon
flyEX #1 Offline
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http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/lunar-eclipse-2010-takes-place-tonight/story?id=12439971

Looks pretty cool.


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#5257140 - 12/20/10 08:07 PM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: flyEX #1]
LNXGUY Offline
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It's cloudy as fuck here, I hope it clears up.
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#5257154 - 12/20/10 08:12 PM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: LNXGUY]
scootergeek Offline
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 Originally Posted By: LNXGUY
It's cloudy as fuck here, I hope it clears up.


Same here. It'll be ok though, it'll come back around in 372 years. I'll get it next time.

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#5257162 - 12/20/10 08:16 PM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: scootergeek]
LNXGUY Offline
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#5257222 - 12/20/10 08:42 PM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: LNXGUY]
BobBarker
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*Takes a picture of the moon any old time and turns it reddish in Ps.*
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#5257390 - 12/20/10 09:45 PM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: ]
ewraven Offline
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lol I must've missed it. \:\( I went outside and found this...



moon by ewraven, on Flickr
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#5257570 - 12/20/10 10:57 PM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: ewraven]
GB Offline
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Lol raven was that hand held?
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#5257592 - 12/20/10 11:07 PM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: GB]
LNXGUY Offline
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Eclipse is at 3:XX am.. It hasn't started yet \:\)
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#5257873 - 12/21/10 04:40 AM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: GB]
ewraven Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Gb
Lol raven was that hand held?


\:\(

I guess the best way to learn is to learn from ones mistakes. Maybe you guys can critique what I did wrong here. Thanks.


lol Tripod. Albeit a twenty year old cheap tripod, but still taken with a tripod AND using a wireless remote. Taken with the K20d of course, but with my Pentax 50-200/4-5.6 Lens.

Here is the Exif data on that previous picture...

 Quote:


Exif dataCamera Pentax K20D
Exposure 0.001 sec (1/1500)
Aperture f/11.0
Focal Length 200 mm
ISO Speed 3200
Exposure Bias 0 EV
Flash Off, Did not fire
Orientation Horizontal (normal)
X-Resolution 72 dpi
Y-Resolution 72 dpi
Software Paint Shop Pro Photo 12.50
Date and Time (Modified) 2010:12:20 21:22:01
YCbCr Positioning Co-sited
Exposure Program Program AE
Date and Time (Original) 2010:12:20 20:53:37
Date and Time (Digitized) 2010:12:20 20:53:37
Metering Mode Spot
Color Space sRGB
Sensing Method One-chip color area
Custom Rendered Normal
Exposure Mode Auto
White Balance Auto
Focal Length In35mm Format 300 mm
Scene Capture Type Standard
Contrast Normal
Saturation Normal
Sharpness Normal
Subject Distance Range Distant
Compression JPEG (old-style)
Viewing Conditions Illuminant Type D50
Measurement Observer CIE 1931
Measurement Flare 0%
Measurement Illuminant Unknown (0)



Here is another one I took, but it is just real real grainy...

moon2 by ewraven, on Flickr

 Quote:
Exif dataCamera Pentax K20D
Exposure 1/3000 sec
Aperture f/13.0
Focal Length 200 mm
ISO Speed 3200
Exposure Bias 0 EV
Flash Off, Did not fire
Orientation Horizontal (normal)
X-Resolution 72 dpi
Y-Resolution 72 dpi
Software Paint Shop Pro Photo 12.50
Date and Time (Modified) 2010:12:21 04:20:54
YCbCr Positioning Co-sited
Exposure Program Program AE
Date and Time (Original) 2010:12:20 20:50:00
Date and Time (Digitized) 2010:12:20 20:50:00
Metering Mode Spot
Color Space sRGB
Sensing Method One-chip color area
Custom Rendered Custom
Exposure Mode Auto
White Balance Auto
Focal Length In35mm Format 300 mm
Scene Capture Type Standard
Contrast Normal
Saturation Low
Sharpness Normal
Subject Distance Range Distant
Compression JPEG (old-style)
Viewing Conditions Illuminant Type D50
Measurement Observer CIE 1931
Measurement Flare 0%
Measurement Illuminant Unknown (0)
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#5257882 - 12/21/10 05:33 AM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: ewraven]
Huggy Offline
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Yeah I wanted to see the lunar eclipse but it's snowing here... I woke up 2:30am to check - still snowing...
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#5257993 - 12/21/10 08:44 AM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: ewraven]
scootergeek Offline
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 Originally Posted By: ewraven
Maybe you guys can critique what I did wrong here. Thanks.


Nothing is really wrong with the images, but your moon is slightly underexposed and you could have suppressed some high ISO noise (graininess when converted to b&w). And at an effective fov of 300mm, you probably had to crop pretty heavily, but nothing you can do about that without buying more gear, so we'll just ignore that issue.

You ran up the ISO as though you were hand holding (and at that high shutter speed, you could have hand held easily). For tripod work on an object like the moon that can be considered still for 10-20 seconds at a time, keep the ISO down to the native level (100-200 depending on the camera) and let the exposure go long. What you really want to avoid is 1/4 or 1/2 second exposures - they're just long enough to get the camera shaking from mirror slap but not long enough for the body and the tripod to dampen them out (mirror up isn't always available on every camera), which is why I like to push tripod shots out to 5 seconds or more. That said, that must have been a bright ass moon since you'd have still been at 1/50th at f/11 at 100 ISO and even at f/22 you'd have still been around 1/10th of a second, which is all kinds of wrong. And increasing the exposure by a half stop or so to brighten the moon would have only brought you to 1/15th, which is not much better (or 1/75th at f/11). It ideally called for a neutral density filter. But assuming you don't have one, and for most people's purposes it's only really a "blurred water" filter so why would you, the best compromise would have been to drag the shutter speed and ISO down to just faster than what would give you mirror slap and tripod vibration issues.

So let's say 1/125th of a second. Open up the lens a halfish stop to f/6.3 (or 6.7 depending on the lens) since that's still right in most lenses sweet spot and will brighten the shot. All this would bring the sensor speed down to 200 ISO and would have given you the highest possible IQ with the gear you've got. But remember, even with a technically perfect exposure, you're still at the mercy of all that atmosphere above you which will still try to distort your moon shot (which is one reason they like to build observatories on top of mountains).

CN: shot looks fine, just lighten the moon a bit in ps.


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#5258218 - 12/21/10 10:18 AM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: scootergeek]
jsmonet Moderator Offline
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i'll post what i got later tonight when i get home /this space reserved for hilarious iso6400 pic of dense dark cloudcover and rain/ \:D
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#5259709 - 12/21/10 08:46 PM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: jsmonet]
flyEX #1 Offline
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This guy got some good shots. Found them while adding some pics to a group on flickr.

Here is one photo of the moon going across the sky and then turning red:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidparks/5281147410/in/faves-mjkjr/

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#5259895 - 12/21/10 10:50 PM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: scootergeek]
ewraven Offline
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Registered: 03/30/02
Posts: 45345
Loc: Dept. of Ruminant Procurement
 Originally Posted By: scootergeek
 Originally Posted By: ewraven
Maybe you guys can critique what I did wrong here. Thanks.


Nothing is really wrong with the images, but your moon is slightly underexposed and you could have suppressed some high ISO noise (graininess when converted to b&w). And at an effective fov of 300mm, you probably had to crop pretty heavily, but nothing you can do about that without buying more gear, so we'll just ignore that issue.

You ran up the ISO as though you were hand holding (and at that high shutter speed, you could have hand held easily). For tripod work on an object like the moon that can be considered still for 10-20 seconds at a time, keep the ISO down to the native level (100-200 depending on the camera) and let the exposure go long. What you really want to avoid is 1/4 or 1/2 second exposures - they're just long enough to get the camera shaking from mirror slap but not long enough for the body and the tripod to dampen them out (mirror up isn't always available on every camera), which is why I like to push tripod shots out to 5 seconds or more. That said, that must have been a bright ass moon since you'd have still been at 1/50th at f/11 at 100 ISO and even at f/22 you'd have still been around 1/10th of a second, which is all kinds of wrong. And increasing the exposure by a half stop or so to brighten the moon would have only brought you to 1/15th, which is not much better (or 1/75th at f/11). It ideally called for a neutral density filter. But assuming you don't have one, and for most people's purposes it's only really a "blurred water" filter so why would you, the best compromise would have been to drag the shutter speed and ISO down to just faster than what would give you mirror slap and tripod vibration issues.

So let's say 1/125th of a second. Open up the lens a halfish stop to f/6.3 (or 6.7 depending on the lens) since that's still right in most lenses sweet spot and will brighten the shot. All this would bring the sensor speed down to 200 ISO and would have given you the highest possible IQ with the gear you've got. But remember, even with a technically perfect exposure, you're still at the mercy of all that atmosphere above you which will still try to distort your moon shot (which is one reason they like to build observatories on top of mountains).

CN: shot looks fine, just lighten the moon a bit in ps.




Thanks for the critique. I'm learning a lot just by reading your post.

I had tried using a lower ISO but the moon was so bright that there weren't any details visible, t'was just a big ball of white. You are right, it really was a very bright moon last night. With the moon being so bright, there were only a few visible stars elsewhere in the sky.

I'm still learning on DSLR's. Haven't quite played around with F stops yet. And I've only just dabbled in exposure times.
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#5260319 - 12/22/10 09:04 AM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: ewraven]
mrbeefhead
Unregistered



here's one I wish I took


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#5260416 - 12/22/10 09:44 AM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: scootergeek]
scootergeek Offline
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 Originally Posted By: scootergeek
That said, that must have been a bright ass moon since you'd have still been at 1/50th at f/11 at 100 ISO and even at f/22 you'd have still been around 1/10th of a second, which is all kinds of wrong. And increasing the exposure by a half stop or so to brighten the moon would have only brought you to 1/15th, which is not much better (or 1/75th at f/11).


Speaking of all kinds of wrong, my math. Brightening up by a half stop in that example would give you 1/5th or 1/30th of second, not 1/15th or 1/75th.

OH, and I forgot to give you props on using spot metering on the moon rather than matrix. That's the best way to keep the moon from blowing out into a featureless white circle. The reason I said to lighten up a half stop is that the sensor picking up the moon's white-ish surface will actually try to make it a middle gray (between 13 and 18% gray depending on the manufacturer), so you have to lighten it a little to keep it white-ish without going so far as to lose the details.
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#5277798 - 01/01/11 04:09 AM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: scootergeek]
ewraven Offline
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Registered: 03/30/02
Posts: 45345
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 Originally Posted By: scootergeek
Speaking of all kinds of wrong, my math. Brightening up by a half stop in that example would give you 1/5th or 1/30th of second, not 1/15th or 1/75th.

OH, and I forgot to give you props on using spot metering on the moon rather than matrix. That's the best way to keep the moon from blowing out into a featureless white circle. The reason I said to lighten up a half stop is that the sensor picking up the moon's white-ish surface will actually try to make it a middle gray (between 13 and 18% gray depending on the manufacturer), so you have to lighten it a little to keep it white-ish without going so far as to lose the details.


Sorry it has taken me so long to reply.

For the spot metering, I just guessed that would be the correct way to do it. lol I'm glad I was right.



 Quote:
Speaking of all kinds of wrong, my math. Brightening up by a half stop in that example would give you 1/5th or 1/30th of second, not 1/15th or 1/75th.


This unfortunately is alien to me, I guess I should take a class or two in order to learn this stuff.

There is a camera shop in Austin that does classes, a friend who is an actual photographer is pushing me to take the classes there instead of the local community college. I will do that and then decide at that point if I want to do the College thing.
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#5277836 - 01/01/11 08:28 AM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: ewraven]
flyEX #1 Offline
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A class or two could help get you started.

You don't have to understand it to use the camera at first. I have a feeling once you have practiced shooting in manual it will be second nature. If I can do this, anyone can.

Here is a short cheat sheet that may or may not help. I'm just thinking this up, don't take it as the gospel.

Choose your aperture for lighting conditions and DOF:

• f/1.4 = Low Light / Very Thin DOF / "bokeh"
• f/2.8 = Indoors / Sports / Narrow DOF
• f/4 = Overcast / DOF is Widening
• f/5.6 = Regular daylight / Normal DOF
• f/7.1 = Sun is overhead / Wide DOF - Losing the "3D" effect


Now choose your exposure time.

• 1/4000sec = Moving subject / Freezing Time / Compensating for f/2.8 in daylight conditions
• 1/1000sec = Good Lighting Outdoors
• 1/200sec = Overcast / Using Flash for portraits / Normal
• 1/50sec = Indoors / Low Light / Still can hand-hold the camera, Tripod helps
• 1sec - 30sec = Tripod / Super long exposure / Writing Your name with a flashlight


Then set the ISO (smoothness and efficiency of light gathering):

• 100 = Bright daylight / Not Grainy or Noisy
• 200 = Daylight / Standard Outdoors / Using flash
• 400 = Overcast / Shadows / Less than Ideal Lighting
• 800 = Indoors / Sports / Getting Noisy
• 1600+ = Bad lighting / Sports / Grainy


...Or start off in Av or Tv where you pick the aperture or shutter speed, and the camera decides the rest of the settings.

As far as shooting the moon. I googled "how to photograph the moon" and got the same info everywhere more or less. Depends on your camera, but setting the shutter to 1/4000sec or 1/8000sec is the first thing I do. Plenty of ways to skin that cat, though.

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#5278225 - 01/01/11 03:28 PM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: ewraven]
jsmonet Moderator Offline
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Registered: 11/13/99
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 Originally Posted By: ewraven

This unfortunately is alien to me, I guess I should take a class or two in order to learn this stuff.

There is a camera shop in Austin that does classes, a friend who is an actual photographer is pushing me to take the classes there instead of the local community college. I will do that and then decide at that point if I want to do the College thing.


ya know, that's ok. calculating stops of light takes a couple tries, verifying with someone who knows.
there are two things you have to get used to when calculating in regards to shutter speed:
halves
doubles.

http://www.photonhead.com/beginners/stops.php

check that out.

say you have something properly exposed at 1/100th shutter speed, but your aperture is too tight, say f/8, and you want to dofsturbate out a bit and drop that shit all the way to 2.8. well, you can change your shutter speed and/or iso to get the same exposure using different settings.

start with:
f/8
1/100th
iso400

trying to get f/2.8
???
???

first we have to figure out how many stops there are between f/8 and 2.8.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-number

bam!

reading through there we figure out that we need to adjust 3 full stops, since f/8 is 3 stops darker than f/2.8

I'll just tell you that iso stops are halves and doubles, for ease of use here. Most cameras are iso200 natively, meaning the least noise you'll get on your pix is at iso200. this changes for some, but let's just assume this as true here.

ok, so let's start by dropping our iso from 400 to 200. now we have

f/2.8
???
iso200

still 2 stops to go. since our subject is frozen at 1/100th, going faster isn't a big deal, right?
-right.

soooo, if we still need 2 stops, let's go up incrementally. 1/100th to start, 1 stop faster is 1/200th, and one stop faster is 1/400th. there are your two stops.

f/2.8
1/400th
iso200

if all else fails, overexpose it a little. that never hurts.

LONG winded, but it helps to know where you can adapt to get the shot you want when you're looking at an entirely incorrect shutter/aperture/iso and you need to fix it asap
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#5284797 - 01/05/11 01:19 AM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: flyEX #1]
ewraven Offline
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Registered: 03/30/02
Posts: 45345
Loc: Dept. of Ruminant Procurement
Wow, that little cheat sheet of yours just helped me A LOT to understanding the camera and how it works. I just spent an hour taking a bunch of pictures in manual mode and finally figured out what everything does.

Thanks a lot.

I'll be printing that out later. I'm on the Texas coast right now just relaxing. This is a perfect time to be learning the camera.
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#5284800 - 01/05/11 01:23 AM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: jsmonet]
ewraven Offline
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Registered: 03/30/02
Posts: 45345
Loc: Dept. of Ruminant Procurement
 Originally Posted By: jsmonet
 Originally Posted By: ewraven

This unfortunately is alien to me, I guess I should take a class or two in order to learn this stuff.

There is a camera shop in Austin that does classes, a friend who is an actual photographer is pushing me to take the classes there instead of the local community college. I will do that and then decide at that point if I want to do the College thing.


ya know, that's ok. calculating stops of light takes a couple tries, verifying with someone who knows.
there are two things you have to get used to when calculating in regards to shutter speed:
halves
doubles.

http://www.photonhead.com/beginners/stops.php

check that out.

say you have something properly exposed at 1/100th shutter speed, but your aperture is too tight, say f/8, and you want to dofsturbate out a bit and drop that shit all the way to 2.8. well, you can change your shutter speed and/or iso to get the same exposure using different settings.

start with:
f/8
1/100th
iso400

trying to get f/2.8
???
???

first we have to figure out how many stops there are between f/8 and 2.8.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-number

bam!

reading through there we figure out that we need to adjust 3 full stops, since f/8 is 3 stops darker than f/2.8

I'll just tell you that iso stops are halves and doubles, for ease of use here. Most cameras are iso200 natively, meaning the least noise you'll get on your pix is at iso200. this changes for some, but let's just assume this as true here.

ok, so let's start by dropping our iso from 400 to 200. now we have

f/2.8
???
iso200

still 2 stops to go. since our subject is frozen at 1/100th, going faster isn't a big deal, right?
-right.

soooo, if we still need 2 stops, let's go up incrementally. 1/100th to start, 1 stop faster is 1/200th, and one stop faster is 1/400th. there are your two stops.

f/2.8
1/400th
iso200

if all else fails, overexpose it a little. that never hurts.

LONG winded, but it helps to know where you can adapt to get the shot you want when you're looking at an entirely incorrect shutter/aperture/iso and you need to fix it asap


Wow, I never realized that there is math involved, that picture taking is even that complicated. lol

I'll be reading up on those links in your post this week. Thanks for the help.
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#5286470 - 01/05/11 06:03 PM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: ewraven]
Nate047 Offline
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Registered: 03/03/03
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 Originally Posted By: ewraven
Wow, I never realized that there is math involved, that picture taking is even that complicated. lol


"Picture taking," is not complicated. Photography, is.

Nate
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#5286946 - 01/05/11 09:26 PM Re: Lunar Eclipse Tonight = Red Moon [Re: Nate047]
ewraven Offline
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Registered: 03/30/02
Posts: 45345
Loc: Dept. of Ruminant Procurement
 Originally Posted By: Nate047
 Originally Posted By: ewraven
Wow, I never realized that there is math involved, that picture taking is even that complicated. lol


"Picture taking," is not complicated. Photography, is.

Nate


lol I stand corrected.
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