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#1646481 - 07/15/07 12:29 AM Autocross minor rules / participation
TJ213 Offline
Major Member


Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 1283
Loc: Pennsylvania
I'm 17 (and will have my waiver signed), and I was thinking about bringing my friends with me to an event on the 29th, but I was wondering whether they need minor waivers to be there, and whether they would be able to drive during one of my runs.

I was also wondering what the SCCA rules are for them being passengers?

btw, one of them is 18, but only has a permit, would this affect anything?

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#1647307 - 07/15/07 01:33 PM Re: Autocross minor rules / participation [Re: TJ213]
Stock1993CivicSi Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 109
Loc: Seneca, SC
Check the Rules here...free download...but here's my take.

SCCA 2007 Rules

Yes, they will need waivers signed by both parents.

Yes, they can be passengers. However, check with that club/Region to be sure. The SCCA Rules are very specific (instructor/student, parent/child), but local events can be more flexible.

With a valid license/permit, two of you could co-drive your car. That way, both drivers get all their runs. As long as all the restrictions on a permit/restricted license are met, it's acceptable.

Good Luck!!!
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#1648518 - 07/15/07 09:21 PM Re: Autocross minor rules / participation [Re: Stock1993CivicSi]
CivicRacerExR Offline
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Registered: 11/05/99
Posts: 8856
Loc: Landisville, PA, USA
If you are coming to the Harrisburg Farm Show event since I see you are in PA then we do not allow passengers during competition runs (makes a level playing field).

But yes both parents have to sign the minor waiver form, and if he wants to compete he must have a driver's license.
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#1649100 - 07/16/07 01:29 AM Re: Autocross minor rules / participation [Re: CivicRacerExR]
TJ213 Offline
Major Member


Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 1283
Loc: Pennsylvania
So there is no way they can ride with me? I really don't care about my times that much for this next event, and I was able to have a passenger for the Carlisle event. I really doubt that my times will be very competitive since this is my first "normal" autocross.

I don't think they will be driving, as they have never seen an autocross course before.

So is there some what I can just not have my times ranked or something and bring a passenger?

By competition runs do you mean the runs (3 if I remember right) that we signed up for?

btw, is there any way to get the times from the Carlisle one?


Edited by TJ213 (07/16/07 01:33 AM)

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#1649384 - 07/16/07 08:28 AM Re: Autocross minor rules / participation [Re: TJ213]
Stock1993CivicSi Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 109
Loc: Seneca, SC
Some clubs/Regions are more "touchy" about passengers than others. The reason is, if the passenger is also a driver, it provides for a look at the course at speed. So, it can lead to an unfair advantage.

On the other hand, part of local Region's job is driver development and recruitment. If your friends meet the passenger requirements (age, signed waiver, helmet, etc.) and aren't competing, I see no problem with them riding. Then again, that's up to the respective Region.

An alternative, especially since you're new to the sport, might be to try and arrange a ride-along, or even a co-drive, for both YOU and your friend(s) with an experienced driver. That way, you get some free coaching and your friends still get to ride.

I'd contact your local Region and explain your particulars. Good Luck!
_________________________


Remember..."Civic" spelled backwards is "civiC"

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#1650067 - 07/16/07 11:28 AM Re: Autocross minor rules / participation [Re: Stock1993CivicSi]
TJ213 Offline
Major Member


Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 1283
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Stock1993CivicSi
Some clubs/Regions are more "touchy" about passengers than others. The reason is, if the passenger is also a driver, it provides for a look at the course at speed. So, it can lead to an unfair advantage.

On the other hand, part of local Region's job is driver development and recruitment. If your friends meet the passenger requirements (age, signed waiver, helmet, etc.) and aren't competing, I see no problem with them riding. Then again, that's up to the respective Region.

An alternative, especially since you're new to the sport, might be to try and arrange a ride-along, or even a co-drive, for both YOU and your friend(s) with an experienced driver. That way, you get some free coaching and your friends still get to ride.

I'd contact your local Region and explain your particulars. Good Luck!



well, my local region's chair probably knows about this post already ;\)

he rode with me at the last one, but I guess that was okay because he has the course perfectly memorized (actually, for all I know he might have designed it and set it up too)

I know one of them can't drive (he only has a permit, and can't drive stick), but if there are any free runs the other may drive, does he need to be registered for that or just have the waiver taken car of if he is driving my car?

I know the SCCA rules, are, well, a never ending bible of very strict guidelines, but I hope there can be a little flexibility at the local level.


Edited by TJ213 (07/16/07 11:29 AM)

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#1652962 - 07/17/07 12:55 AM Re: Autocross minor rules / participation [Re: TJ213]
CivicRacerExR Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 11/05/99
Posts: 8856
Loc: Landisville, PA, USA
I am the Regional Autocross Chair \:\) LOL.

You were allowed a passenger at Carlisle because he was an instructor and because it's a low key event. Our regular autocrosses no passengers allowed during competition runs as stated above and in some cases makes the car more balanced. Either way no passengers during competition runs. You can take pasengers with you during non-comp runs if we have time towards the end of the day.

You never saw an autocross course? Then what did you do at Carlisle? \:\) There's no time like the present to start autocrossing. The sooner you start the sooner you will get faster and better at it. I kick myself for not autocrossing sooner. And you will kick yourself too. Probably the only legal way to have fun in a car with clothes on \:\)
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#1652975 - 07/17/07 01:02 AM Re: Autocross minor rules / participation [Re: TJ213]
CivicRacerExR Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 11/05/99
Posts: 8856
Loc: Landisville, PA, USA
Originally Posted By: TJ213
he rode with me at the last one, but I guess that was okay because he has the course perfectly memorized (actually, for all I know he might have designed it and set it up too)


Nope I do not design courses anymore. I have enough on my plate being the: Autocross Chief, Novice Autocross Chief, and Registration Chief. But we have to ride with you guys before our runs because then there wouldn't be any instructors for any of the heats \:\) Plus it's not a real advantage to any of us to ride with students really. I'm trying to hang on for dear life and help you guys drive, no time to study the course \:\)

Originally Posted By: TJ213
I know one of them can't drive (he only has a permit, and can't drive stick), but if there are any free runs the other may drive, does he need to be registered for that or just have the waiver taken car of if he is driving my car?


In order to do non-comp runs you need to compete first. Part of our insurance partnership. The other thing is then everyone would want to sign up for non-comp runs and we would lose money for our lots. We have to pay $2000+ for some of our lots.

Originally Posted By: TJ213
I know the SCCA rules, are, well, a never ending bible of very strict guidelines, but I hope there can be a little flexibility at the local level.


What do you mean flexibility? On what?
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#1653128 - 07/17/07 02:25 AM Re: Autocross minor rules / participation [Re: CivicRacerExR]
TJ213 Offline
Major Member


Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 1283
Loc: Pennsylvania
okay, so it looks like my best bet is to go to the afternoon event and hope for some non-comp runs afterwards that I can bring passengers on.

I meant they have never seen an autocross course before, and for me this will really be my first "normal" autocross course

Originally Posted By: CivicRacerExR
I'm trying to hang on for dear life and help you guys drive, no time to study the course \:\)


lol, Is that what you were doing in that Mini cooper on the driving school day at Carlisle \:D



So from what I understand there is no way they can be with me during a comp run, even if they are not signed up for driving / don't bring their own cars?


btw, do you think there will be time for non-comp on the 29th?

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#1653458 - 07/17/07 08:41 AM Re: Autocross minor rules / participation [Re: TJ213]
CivicRacerExR Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 11/05/99
Posts: 8856
Loc: Landisville, PA, USA
Originally Posted By: TJ213
I meant they have never seen an autocross course before, and for me this will really be my first "normal" autocross course


No different than the Carlisle Autocross. That was a normal autocross course too.

Originally Posted By: TJ213
lol, Is that what you were doing in that Mini cooper on the driving school day at Carlisle \:D


Yeah I thought he was going to kill me. He was not listening to one thing I was teaching him. I think he was just there to show off or thought he knew how to drive.

Originally Posted By: TJ213
So from what I understand there is no way they can be with me during a comp run, even if they are not signed up for driving / don't bring their own cars?

btw, do you think there will be time for non-comp on the 29th?


Re-read what I said above about non-comp runs. And as for non-comp runs on the 29th. I think we SHOULD have time, but don't quote me on it. Past 2 events we ran into problems with our timing software and equipment.
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#1654292 - 07/17/07 12:32 PM Re: Autocross minor rules / participation [Re: CivicRacerExR]
TJ213 Offline
Major Member


Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 1283
Loc: Pennsylvania
Quote:
No different than the Carlisle Autocross. That was a normal autocross course too.

I kind of thought of the carlisle one as sort of an abnormal one, personally I thought it was easier to keep track of that course than the HACC one because it was actually paved out, and seemed like a relatively simple layout to memorize, plus I was there the day before memorizing the course from above. (although that none of that helps when you try to heel - toe and hit the wrong pedal, causing you to brake late and run off the course in your first lap, which was pretty embarasing)

Quote:
Yeah I thought he was going to kill me. He was not listening to one thing I was teaching him. I think he was just there to show off or thought he knew how to drive.

lol, it takes a lot of guts to just jump in and ride with someone you don't know. (especially a convertible) I have to admit that the first time you took my civic around the skidpad it was kind of freaky, I was really surprised with how close you were and how quickly you were going, especially in an unfamiliar car with a strange front end design (I still have trouble parking this thing sometimes)

Okay, even in non-comp runs they are not driving w/o registering, but even if they are not driving in any way they still can't be passengers in comp runs, correct?

What heat / session should I sign up for in order to have the greatest chance of being there for a non-comp run?


btw, I think autocross messes with your mind, I seriously can only drive close to the curb when doing 20 or over, if I'm going slowly I lose all sense of where the right side of my car is. This makes curb parking very interesting.


Edited by TJ213 (07/17/07 12:34 PM)

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#1656772 - 07/17/07 11:35 PM Re: Autocross minor rules / participation [Re: TJ213]
CivicRacerExR Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 11/05/99
Posts: 8856
Loc: Landisville, PA, USA
Originally Posted By: TJ213
I kind of thought of the carlisle one as sort of an abnormal one, personally I thought it was easier to keep track of that course than the HACC one because it was actually paved out, and seemed like a relatively simple layout to memorize, plus I was there the day before memorizing the course from above. (although that none of that helps when you try to heel - toe and hit the wrong pedal, causing you to brake late and run off the course in your first lap, which was pretty embarasing)


Ok I see that. But most autocrosses are like the HACC school but on a bigger scale. The Farm Show lot is HUGE \:\) like 1000x700.

Originally Posted By: TJ213
lol, it takes a lot of guts to just jump in and ride with someone you don't know. (especially a convertible) I have to admit that the first time you took my civic around the skidpad it was kind of freaky, I was really surprised with how close you were and how quickly you were going, especially in an unfamiliar car with a strange front end design (I still have trouble parking this thing sometimes)


That's years of practice though. You have to remember that every car (in a way) is the same animal. Has a gas pedal, brake pedal, steering wheel, 4 tires, and 4 brakes. They all do the basic same things when you brake, accelerate and turn the steering wheel. It's the smoothness that comes with practice and time. You probably didn't feel it but I was probably pressing/and lifting the gas pedal about 5-10 times a second to get myself closer or farther away from the skid pad cones. I never touched the brakes.

Originally Posted By: TJ213
Okay, even in non-comp runs they are not driving w/o registering, but even if they are not driving in any way they still can't be passengers in comp runs, correct?


Correct in order to do non-comp runs they must sign up for competition runs 1st. NO passengers DURING COMPETITION RUNS.

Originally Posted By: TJ213
What heat / session should I sign up for in order to have the greatest chance of being there for a non-comp run?


It doesn't matter what heat you sign up for. If everything runs smoothly we should have time for non-comp runs. If not then we don't. Some of us get on the lots around 5/6am in the morning. And making us stay for non-comp runs when it's 7pm at night is a bit much don't you think? Everyone thinks the Autocross Core people get paid to do this. We're all there as volunteers for you guys. I do not make one DIME doing this, because I love this sport.

Originally Posted By: TJ213
btw, I think autocross messes with your mind, I seriously can only drive close to the curb when doing 20 or over, if I'm going slowly I lose all sense of where the right side of my car is. This makes curb parking very interesting.
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#1656887 - 07/18/07 12:33 AM Re: Autocross minor rules / participation [Re: CivicRacerExR]
TJ213 Offline
Major Member


Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 1283
Loc: Pennsylvania
So are non-comp runs in the morning, afternoon, or both?

lol, at my last comment about curb parking, I seriously messed up curb parking today, and the s2000 payed the price. Unfortunately my dad noticed pretty quickly. (not surprising considering one wheel was curbed pretty badly and I took off a decent amount of paint from the front bumper on the right side.)

and he was afraid that autocross would mess up the car, I still can't convince him to drive, oh well, I'll keep trying



Mike, Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions and helping me get involved in autocross. \:\)


btw, do you guys need any extra help? If I could be useful I'd like to volunteer.


Edited by TJ213 (07/18/07 12:34 AM)

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#1660821 - 07/18/07 11:24 PM Re: Autocross minor rules / participation [Re: TJ213]
CivicRacerExR Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 11/05/99
Posts: 8856
Loc: Landisville, PA, USA
Non comps are always done at the end of the day depending on time.

We can always use the extra help. Either at 6am or clean up.
_________________________
Sponsored by: KAM Racing Sports, Falken Tires, Progress Technology, Brady's High Performance, Taggart Performance Engineering, Rotora Brakes
Autocross is: 90% driver, 5% car, & 5% CRAZY MOJO!
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Buy my Civic parts!

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