#1215142 - 04/02/07 11:05 AM
Where should my car stack up?
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TinmanEM1
Jr Member
Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 532
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
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In my region in the HS class, there is an '02 EP Si and an '86 CRX that are driven by what I'm told are very fast drivers. They're pretty much the only other cars in the class, though, and I'm not sure where I should expect my '99 Si to be relative to the two of them. All other things being equal, with the same person driving the 3 of these cars, what kind of difference in times would you expect?
I'm just trying to get a feel for how much I need to improve as a driver to close that gap, and, at some point, get ahead. My gut tells me that, with 76hp or so, the CRX should be a few seconds behind my car, and the EP maybe within a half second or so of it, but I don't have much experience, and was wondering what the experience of some of you guys who have been around the block says.
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1999 EBP Civic Si - Autocross slut
2007 Chevy Avalanche
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#1215243 - 04/02/07 11:36 AM
Re: Where should my car stack up?
[Re: TinmanEM1]
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jasonsd81
Jr Poster
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 140
Loc: Grand Forks, ND (from San Dieg...
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Don't be deceived by the CRX. It could quite possibly have the fastest times out of all of those cars. It's light, agile, and power isn't everything in autocross.
Do you know if it's an HF or Si?
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#1215377 - 04/02/07 12:09 PM
Re: Where should my car stack up?
[Re: TinmanEM1]
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AX-NY'06Si
Jr Member
Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 621
Loc: Southern NY State
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That's actually pretty good for a first timer on a 45 second course. I would bet that by the end of the season you will be within 2 to 3 seconds of the EP on street tires. Oh, and learn as much as you can on all-season tires. They usually have softer sidewalls and its easier to feel slip angles, and break away is more gradual. Make sure you talk to these guys driving the CRX and EP Si. If they are really good drivers they will help you immeasurably by giving you little hints and tips such as how to sit, how to steer and brake, how to enter and exit a turn, picking a line, where to look, etc. Drive with any instructors that are available at your events, and if they are offered, attend an autocross school.
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'06 NBP Si w/ OEM fogs '06 Mazda 3S GT 
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#1217233 - 04/02/07 09:08 PM
Re: Where should my car stack up?
[Re: TinmanEM1]
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CivicRacerExR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 11/05/99
Posts: 8856
Loc: Landisville, PA, USA
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Autocrossing is not all about power, yes it's nice to have but there are too many other factors.
My 91 Civic Si had 100 MONSTER hp and was setup for STS in 2005. I drove the snot out of that thing and was much faster than cars with 3-4x more power. Like the Porsche Club autocross I went to had a Porsche Carrera 4 with over 400hp (the owner claimed). On that 110 second course I was only 1/2 second behind the guy on STREET TIRES (and he was on DOT R tires). 
At one course I drove my 91 Civic Si and went home and got my 00 Civic Si and ran them both on the same course. I was 1-2 seconds faster in my 91 Civic Si vs my 00 Civic Si.
91 Civic Si - 2080lbs, 100hp, on 205/50x15" Azenis
00 Civic Si - 2450lbs, 160hp, on the same Azenis.
_________________________
Sponsored by: KAM Racing Sports, Falken Tires, Progress Technology, Brady's High Performance, Taggart Performance Engineering, Rotora Brakes Autocross is: 90% driver, 5% car, & 5% CRAZY MOJO!Autocross Help PageBuy my Civic parts!
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#1217920 - 04/02/07 11:55 PM
Re: Where should my car stack up?
[Re: TinmanEM1]
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CivicRacerExR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 11/05/99
Posts: 8856
Loc: Landisville, PA, USA
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Interesting. I was talking yesterday to my region's Solo chair, and he runs an EF Si, and was telling me that when the '99 Si came out they were a lot faster than the EFs.
Well it depends on what your definition of fast is. Drag race yeah the 99-00 Civic Si should be faster in the 1/4 mile. Road course maybe too but the car is limited by how much tire you can fit under the fenders without tearing up the fender liners and the lip. I put 215/45x16" shaved Azenis on my 00 Civic Si at PA States and made up some good time, but killed me in gearing.
_________________________
Sponsored by: KAM Racing Sports, Falken Tires, Progress Technology, Brady's High Performance, Taggart Performance Engineering, Rotora Brakes Autocross is: 90% driver, 5% car, & 5% CRAZY MOJO!Autocross Help PageBuy my Civic parts!
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#1218546 - 04/03/07 09:30 AM
Re: Where should my car stack up?
[Re: TinmanEM1]
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CivicRacerExR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 11/05/99
Posts: 8856
Loc: Landisville, PA, USA
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Well the 205/50x15" Azenis vs the 215/45x16" Azenis I gained about 1" wider tire. For a car that is 400lbs heavier than the EF Civics it definitely helped.
I fit a 225/45x15" tire on my 15x6" stock Si wheels and I know several Type R owners doing the same. Just have to find the right tire shop to install them because you need 2-3 people to do it. It's not fun or easy. If not 205/50x15" will work fine too. Little shorter than 195/55x15" and little wider.
You should be on average about 4-8 seconds behind the fastest cars in your group. But since this is your first year autocrossing, do not worry so much about trying to be 1st. It's not going to happen til you get some experience under your belt. The biggest thing you can do to make you faster is:
1) attend any and all autocross schools you can find. Your region might offer the Evoluion Schools which are the cavaiar of autocross schools.
2) have someone ride shotgun with you on all your runs if possible. Let them critique you, but be ready and willing to accept comments. Some people are very stubborn and don't like to listen to critisim. Can't grow and learn if you don't.
3) have an instructor drive your car with you as passenger. Notice what he does differently than you and why he should be faster than you.
4) ask to ride shotgun in other people's cars. See what they do compared to you.
5) also see if you can ask if people can help you with setup on your car. Some people might have a pyrometer which can measure tire temperatures. You want the fronts to be even across the whole tire if possible for best traction.
6) Also go to the bookstore and get some books and read up on autocrossing.
_________________________
Sponsored by: KAM Racing Sports, Falken Tires, Progress Technology, Brady's High Performance, Taggart Performance Engineering, Rotora Brakes Autocross is: 90% driver, 5% car, & 5% CRAZY MOJO!Autocross Help PageBuy my Civic parts!
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#1221438 - 04/03/07 11:32 PM
Re: Where should my car stack up?
[Re: TinmanEM1]
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CivicRacerExR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 11/05/99
Posts: 8856
Loc: Landisville, PA, USA
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Thanks for all the help! I am definitely not one of those people who is too proud to take the advice of those who are willing to give it.
Good to know that the 225/45-15s will fit with no clearance issues. It seems to be a somewhat common size in R-compounds, but it looks like I'll have the 205/50-15 Azenis on until I am ready to make that jump, maybe for next season.
BTW, is anyone planning on coming down to Atlanta for the DoubleCross Challenge in June? It'd be nice to put some faces to the names on here.
I believe I used 3mm spacers for my 15x6" wheels with 225/45x15" Hoosiers just incase. I never drove it without the spacers though. It might be close to the springs/shocks and the inner fender.
_________________________
Sponsored by: KAM Racing Sports, Falken Tires, Progress Technology, Brady's High Performance, Taggart Performance Engineering, Rotora Brakes Autocross is: 90% driver, 5% car, & 5% CRAZY MOJO!Autocross Help PageBuy my Civic parts!
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#1225009 - 04/04/07 11:59 PM
Re: Where should my car stack up?
[Re: TinmanEM1]
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CivicRacerExR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 11/05/99
Posts: 8856
Loc: Landisville, PA, USA
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No it will not add negative camber. Lowering the car or getting an adjustable upper control arm will get more negative camber.
A wheels spacer is a good idea is you are rubbing the inner fenders. Bad idea if you are already rubbing the outer fenders. Also can create more wear and tear on the hub bearings and suspension components since the wheel is further out from the center of the car creating more stress. Also you will not pass most state inspections with them on.
_________________________
Sponsored by: KAM Racing Sports, Falken Tires, Progress Technology, Brady's High Performance, Taggart Performance Engineering, Rotora Brakes Autocross is: 90% driver, 5% car, & 5% CRAZY MOJO!Autocross Help PageBuy my Civic parts!
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#1228682 - 04/05/07 10:51 PM
Re: Where should my car stack up?
[Re: skierd]
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CivicRacerExR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 11/05/99
Posts: 8856
Loc: Landisville, PA, USA
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I always kept the front at full soft on all my cars and rears 1/2 to 1.5 turns rear. Depends on the track conditions and surface.
_________________________
Sponsored by: KAM Racing Sports, Falken Tires, Progress Technology, Brady's High Performance, Taggart Performance Engineering, Rotora Brakes Autocross is: 90% driver, 5% car, & 5% CRAZY MOJO!Autocross Help PageBuy my Civic parts!
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#1231488 - 04/06/07 07:39 PM
Re: Where should my car stack up?
[Re: TinmanEM1]
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CivicRacerExR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 11/05/99
Posts: 8856
Loc: Landisville, PA, USA
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When the back end started to oversteer too much, when you have to run on a wet surface, cold tires, etc...
_________________________
Sponsored by: KAM Racing Sports, Falken Tires, Progress Technology, Brady's High Performance, Taggart Performance Engineering, Rotora Brakes Autocross is: 90% driver, 5% car, & 5% CRAZY MOJO!Autocross Help PageBuy my Civic parts!
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#1233753 - 04/07/07 07:03 PM
Re: Where should my car stack up?
[Re: TinmanEM1]
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CivicRacerExR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 11/05/99
Posts: 8856
Loc: Landisville, PA, USA
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On Hondas (pre 2001) you want more body roll (to a point of course). More body roll means more negative camber which is good for cornering. Cars with Macpheron struts don't not get more negative camber as you corner harder - one of the downsides to that type of suspension.
Setting the front to more stiff than the rear in slippery conditions is going to cause more understeer (push). On slippery surfaces you want everything full soft cause a softer setup will grip more. A stiff suspension on a set surface is going to somewhat skip across the surface instead of bite.
_________________________
Sponsored by: KAM Racing Sports, Falken Tires, Progress Technology, Brady's High Performance, Taggart Performance Engineering, Rotora Brakes Autocross is: 90% driver, 5% car, & 5% CRAZY MOJO!Autocross Help PageBuy my Civic parts!
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