#6813261 - 01/06/13 07:45 AM
Ontario healthcare failure
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Choco 'Nuck
Proud Member of BLM
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 17568
Loc: Somewhere out there
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http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/...ief-in-new-york
Yeah C2k, this is more common than you think. Bash the cost of the US healthcare all you want, but you can get faster service, and access to better specialists. Even the ex premier of Newfoundland went to the US for surgery when he needed it.
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#6814233 - 01/06/13 06:59 PM
Re: Ontario healthcare failure
[Re: porschetr]
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JSIR
Post Master Sr
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 6411
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
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There is good and bad in our system I've seen both ends of it, unfortunately there is too much financial waste with the fat cats managing our system and that is the real problem.
I broke my femer a few years ago in a motorcycle accident, I had to wait almost a week in the hospital before having surgery scheduled. But when I did get my surgery it was by one of the best orthopedic surgeons you could get. If I was in the U.S. I would have gotten quicker service, and perhaps a $100,000 invoice at the end of the ordeal, pretty tough for a student to absorb. In Canada I paid $100 for the ambulance ride.
Fast forward a few years later and my father was diagnosed with one of the worst illnesses one could imagine. He received the best care possible over a two year period, and our family received an amazing level of help right to the end of my father's life. In Canada my family was able to cope with things, we kept our family home and life continued on as best as one could expect. In the U.S. our family would surely have been bankrupted and lord knows where my father would have ended up. Things would have been really tough, I'm sure of it.
Looking back now I really didn't mind waiting for my non life-threatening surgery knowing that at the other end of the spectrum people that need the most help get a pretty decent level of care in exchange. That's how our system is, a decent level of care for the masses. Maybe not the best system, but still decent when you look at the it as a whole.
The U.S. may give the best level of care for the individual. If you have money and/or good insurance the U.S is the place to get great care. If you have a life threatening illness without money or great insurance in the U.S. you aren't going to fare so well. Just giving my experience here, I'm not saying either system is better. I think your opinon just depends on your circumstances.
Edited by JSIR (01/06/13 07:22 PM)
_________________________
 02 S2000- Summer toy 12 Ford Explorer - Daily driver/Winter ride
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#6814385 - 01/06/13 08:20 PM
Re: Ontario healthcare failure
[Re: Euphoricuck]
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LNXGUY
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 106969
Loc: Barrie, Ont,
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Hey, we saved your life, where's our 100k?
_________________________
-Bill The GN would OWN you, your children and your children's children. '09 E90 335 d 
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#6814454 - 01/06/13 09:11 PM
Re: Ontario healthcare failure
[Re: loudsubz]
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Choco 'Nuck
Proud Member of BLM
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 17568
Loc: Somewhere out there
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yeh I have 120k lying around
So let me get this straight, if you have some sort of life debilitating disease, cancer for example, or what this woman had, your wouldn't go into debt to get treatment in the US after you were refused in Canada?
I'm going to call of you liars if you say no. No one has 120 laying around, but people will do whatever is necessary to prolong thier lives.
I'm going to share something with all of you. My sister (Canadian citizen) has breast cancer. Do you think she would depend on treatment in Ontario? She is in Miami going through chemo/radiation. Better doctors, quicker access etc. Fuck waiting in this piss poor system when you have life threatening disease.
She has a combination of insurance, family and credit to fund her treatment. If you are sick and want to roll the dice here, be my guest. The politicians won't, the top atheletes, musucians, finance professionals won't.
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#6814530 - 01/06/13 10:06 PM
Re: Ontario healthcare failure
[Re: Choco 'Nuck]
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LNXGUY
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 106969
Loc: Barrie, Ont,
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Dude, you should just move to the US. You're insane if you think your sister wouldn't have received treatment in Ontario. My sister did chemo here, my buddy just finished up chemo here as well. I've also got a friend who's down in Toronto 3 days a week for chemo with his daughter.
_________________________
-Bill The GN would OWN you, your children and your children's children. '09 E90 335 d
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#6814775 - 01/07/13 05:18 AM
Re: Ontario healthcare failure
[Re: LNXGUY]
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Choco 'Nuck
Proud Member of BLM
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 17568
Loc: Somewhere out there
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I'm not saying she wouldn't have received treatement, but
1. Wait to see a specialist, wait to have testing done (biopsy etc), more and more waiting while cancer grows. If surgery became necessary wait for a slot in a hospital. Fuck that. Thankfully, she had critical care insurance, and they are financially secure enough for the US treatment to not bankrupt them.
Her family physician confirmed cancer, and within a week, she had already seen a cancer specialist and started treatment in Miami. Her sister inlaw is doctor and had all the connections. There is no way she would have been able to do this in Ontario.
When Danny Williams who was Newfoundland's premier had to have heart surgery, he went to the US. Why take chances with Canadian healthcare when its faster and better (as long as you can afford it), in the US.
http://www.darkdaily.com/newfoundland-pr...4#axzz2HI2DAWbj
Critics point out that Williams’ choice to undergo his surgery in a U.S. hospital contrasts dramatically against the poor care that hundreds of breast cancer patients received in Newfoundland in earlier years. It was October 2005, when the Canadian public became aware of inaccuracies in breast cancer testing performed by the pathology laboratory that serves the provinces of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Based on an outside review of 1,013 breast cancer patients who had tested negative between May 1997 and August 2005, it was determined that, because of inaccurate pathology tests on estrogen receptors, 383 women in the retest group had not gotten appropriate treatment. Of this number, 108 patients had died by the time the pathology test review was conducted.
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#6814779 - 01/07/13 05:39 AM
Re: Ontario healthcare failure
[Re: Choco 'Nuck]
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Choco 'Nuck
Proud Member of BLM
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 17568
Loc: Somewhere out there
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According to this, only 50% of breast cancer patients are seen by a specialist within the recommended 14 days, and then 80% of those start treatment within an additional 28 days.
https://www.cancercare.on.ca/ocs/wait-times/systemicwt/
Ontario's system 
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#6814822 - 01/07/13 07:24 AM
Re: Ontario healthcare failure
[Re: Euphoricuck]
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oranjizz
Post Master
Registered: 11/01/02
Posts: 2654
Loc: Ontario, Canada, etc.
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#6814832 - 01/07/13 07:30 AM
Re: Ontario healthcare failure
[Re: c2k]
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Choco 'Nuck
Proud Member of BLM
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 17568
Loc: Somewhere out there
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dude plz move to the states since you can afford to shell out 120k like it's nothing.
we get it, you're against the health care system AGAIN for the 123490183460981340968093809816390846 n TH time.
Did any of you even read the article about the woman. She was refused/denied surgery by multiple Ontario doctors. How can you as Conservatives like the Ontario system? Its wasteful and inefficient, and drags everyone down to the lowest common denominator.
I don't get it, you hate unions, you hate handouts, and yet, you love this healthcare system.
Yeah, me and everyone else who would head south for a life threatening issue, you know, people like premiers, athletes, business people, other doctors. People who actually have a clue, and don't just drink the socialist koolaid.
Maybe you guys should read some more, Fraser Institute study showing over 46000 Canadians left Canada for medical treatments in 2011
http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedF...2011-ff0712.pdf
I guess they don't have a clue either 
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#6814907 - 01/07/13 08:17 AM
Re: Ontario healthcare failure
[Re: Choco 'Nuck]
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c2k
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 05/21/00
Posts: 19291
Loc: Wiesloch-Walldorf, Germany
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dude plz move to the states since you can afford to shell out 120k like it's nothing.
we get it, you're against the health care system AGAIN for the 123490183460981340968093809816390846 n TH time.
Did any of you even read the article about the woman. She was refused/denied surgery by multiple Ontario doctors. How can you as Conservatives like the Ontario system? Its wasteful and inefficient, and drags everyone down to the lowest common denominator. I don't get it, you hate unions, you hate handouts, and yet, you love this healthcare system. Yeah, me and everyone else who would head south for a life threatening issue, you know, people like premiers, athletes, business people, other doctors. People who actually have a clue, and don't just drink the socialist koolaid. Maybe you guys should read some more, Fraser Institute study showing over 46000 Canadians left Canada for medical treatments in 2011 http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedF...2011-ff0712.pdfI guess they don't have a clue either
I hate unions, handouts and I love this healthcare system? I said that? or you're saying that for me?
I never said I love this system. I know it isnt perfect, but you know what? unlike the majority of the people, we have to make the best of it because not everybody can afford to shell out 120k. Frankly I've said it before and I've said it again( not sure why Im repeating myself again..), I resided in the states and it aint all cracked up it seemed to me. The grass isnt always greener on the other side and having said I've been on both sides. There are pro and cons to both systems and I stated my opinion about the US and OHIP care many times and so did you.
yes - I read the article, I just chose not to take part in this pointless debate with you because at the end of the day, you and I can bitch and rant about the system all we want - the sad reality is, I cant do a damn thing to fix it. Can you? If so, THEN FIX IT.
Im not taking part of another pointless debate with you that it's out of my control - SORRY!
I hate to say this, but you are one of the most bitter dude on here who rants about everything that is out of your control. Honestly, put up with it, or fix it or leave. None of us can fix the damn system - if you wanna fix it, run for the MPP in your riding.
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Who cares
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#6814947 - 01/07/13 08:37 AM
Re: Ontario healthcare failure
[Re: Screamin Type ARGH!]
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Choco 'Nuck
Proud Member of BLM
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 17568
Loc: Somewhere out there
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^^ Exactly, just leave when it gets time for critical care. You don't have to put up with it. Like everything else in life, it comes down to planning. I've had 300k of critical care insurance since my 20s. If you don't plan, then you are subjected to health canada saying what procedures and drugs it will pay for, and you have no choices.
I'm not saying the US system doesn't have its flaws, you've seen my post in OT about supporting Obamacare with millions of Americans without healthcare. You just can't admit that the present system sucks just as badly in Ontario. Yes, I said the US system sucks too.
You know what you can do to fix it, support a public/private system, just like Australia. You still pay your taxes to support the public system, and if you want private healthcare, you can buy insurance or pay out of your own pocket. Whether Canadians want to admit it or not, thats exactly what happens with people going to the US. The money could stay locally instead of going to the US with a public/private system.
Part of fixing the system C2k is educating yourself about whats out there, and what works instead of burying your head in the sand and saying no one can fix the system.
Wayne, I hope your sis recovers 100% bud, sending good thoughts down the 400  I think I'll bow out of this discussion because I'll probably get end up getting really pissed off 
Bill, I don't think I've managed to piss you off since the mid 2000s in our cop lover discussions Thanks, I appreciate the good thoughts.
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#6814969 - 01/07/13 08:50 AM
Re: Ontario healthcare failure
[Re: Choco 'Nuck]
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oranjizz
Post Master
Registered: 11/01/02
Posts: 2654
Loc: Ontario, Canada, etc.
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dude plz move to the states since you can afford to shell out 120k like it's nothing.
we get it, you're against the health care system AGAIN for the 123490183460981340968093809816390846 n TH time.
Did any of you even read the article about the woman. She was refused/denied surgery by multiple Ontario doctors. How can you as Conservatives like the Ontario system? Its wasteful and inefficient, and drags everyone down to the lowest common denominator. I don't get it, you hate unions, you hate handouts, and yet, you love this healthcare system. Yeah, me and everyone else who would head south for a life threatening issue, you know, people like premiers, athletes, business people, other doctors. People who actually have a clue, and don't just drink the socialist koolaid. Maybe you guys should read some more, Fraser Institute study showing over 46000 Canadians left Canada for medical treatments in 2011 http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedF...2011-ff0712.pdfI guess they don't have a clue either
That kind of correlation makes me think that while the system needs to be changed, it does not need to change to cater to that small percentage of Canadians that are rich. They can easily take care of themselves elsewhere. I lost my father to Brain cancer and the total bill for his surgeries, chemo, radiation, homecare and other expenses would have destroyed our family, and easily eclipsed your paltry 300 000 comprehensive coverage.
In the end I believe in having a public healthcare system from a moral standpoint. There definitely need to be changes to the system but it is difficult to eliminate greed and corruption. However, I do not feel we need to go private or public/private instead of promoting good wellbeing and personal responsibility to our citizens (i.e. not banning tennis balls and other things at schools, promoting exercise and healthy eating habits from a young age, increasing the price of unhealthy low cost foods).
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#6815229 - 01/07/13 10:55 AM
Re: Ontario healthcare failure
[Re: porschetr]
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Choco 'Nuck
Proud Member of BLM
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/10/01
Posts: 17568
Loc: Somewhere out there
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^^ That was only numbers for people going to the US. Its far more with people who go to India, Korea and Taiwan and don't report back etc.
Srsly though Canuck, you hate Ontario, you hate the healthcare, you hate Toronto, you hate the TPS. Maybe it is time to move to the good ol US of A.
O
The only reason I am still in this province is because of family. If my wife wanted to uproot the kids and leave, I'd be gone. She has family here, I don't. I can make more money elsewhere, with cheaper cost of living.
Oh, and I don't hate Ontario, just Toronto and the accountable to no one TPS.
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